Music, A Love Hate Relationship.

[Alume]

Hi guys,

Excuses up front for my somewhat chaotic way of writing I tend to jump things in my mind and continue typing a few sentices later. Feel free to ask though.

So I've been facing a bit of an issue the last couple of months. Since I started making music I've been at it night and day for 2 years in a row, I fucked about, experiemented loads and the sky was the limit. This burst of creativity lasted me for a good 2-2,5 years up to a point that I brought out my first record on a new label called Nyame Records. This was quite a big step and all I could hope for in a musical sense. Now that I'm reflecting on this, it seems like that could have been my main goal al along, to release something on wax. Maybe that drive fueled me each time I made a track? Maybe not. Back then I could sit, with whatever tools and just make music, express, have fun or even get frustrated. Now I feel like that pure primal need to express is channeled by the way I've configured my mind the last couple of years. I'm more calm about things(though I was extremely calm to begin with), and it seems.. less human in the traditional emotion over action kind of sense.

The fact is that I havent been able to finsih any tracks lately (1,5-2 years). I know all the "just finish it!" crap that I also tell my friends when they have this kind of stuff but somehow it doesnt feel that simple. Until now I've waited patiently for inspiration to come back, but this last couple of days I realised that it might not come back on its own. I have to go get it.

One of the things I've been facing since I entered my phase of musical drought is that I've turned the energy I would put in simply making music into "the perfect setup" now that's a thing we are all very busy with. My GAS got so bad I had 3 elektron machines and no idea what to do with it. I guess it was a desperate call for inspiration by a simple understanding that I knew wouldn't work: more gear=more music. Besides that Elektron machines are quite complex for a guy like me at the time. I had no idea how synthesis worked, I just always fucked about and made things "sound good" .
I solved this issue by selling all my controllers and units to the bare minimum, I'm left with a Push2 now a Rytm and a Roland Juno Alpha

Another thing that I've experienced was during the beginning of this drought is that I focussed my energie on something different entirely. I'm a guy who is quite intersted in plant and stuff and I always wanted a aquarium. Turns out I went totally beserk on aquarium plants and lay out and stuff. Though I still think its cool, its not for me. I'll stick with music for now.
So yeah another phenominon: Focussing your energie on something entirely different. It might work if your drought is something temporary, but dont put your heart and soul into something else thinking music will somehow get jealous and come back to you.. because it wont.

A thing thats been "bothering" me as well is that I dont feel the need to listen to music anymore. I usually listened to music 24/7. Untill I got tinitus which was the beginning of it all I guess. I would be stressed out about loud noises, and havent touched my headphones ever since. These days, I try to listen to some records again. I stopped buying records becasue the need has left me, though I try to listen when im on my computer(though I usually listen to synth demo's).

So yeah there are some more things playing obviously but I'd like to catch your opinion on this. What do you guys do when you experience a long lasting musical absence. I keep telling myself that I havent lost "it" because I believe you cant just lose a thing like that.

I guess i just have to accept that that time is actually gone. I have to accept that the tracks I made back then arent going to sound like the ones now.

I think i also need a new approach, the experimenting and fucking about just doesnt cut it any more. I have to take this shit serious like an actual job if I want to get better and make tracks.

The fact is I now all this shit but I dont feel it yet, the answer. Obviously I havent working it out all the way through.


So subsekt, what are your experiences?

[Barfunkel]

Hopefully it's just a phase, we all go through those. Sometimes everything sounds like crap and it's impossible to listen to or make music, sometimes music sounds wonderful.

Like I said on Slack, maybe try something really different? Maybe not country&western different, but try spending a few months on house or drum&bass or hip hop instrumentals (or learn to rap yourself!) or whatever you feel like. Locking yourself inside a very defined genre for a long time is no good, you get stuck in a loop.

Also, like I said on Slack, try raising the bar really high. Don't begin with the mindset "I'll just try to write what I can, you know, to reach the minimum release quality". Listen and analyse your 20 favorite techno tracks of all time, try really hard to understand why they work and how are they construced to the smallest of details, then try to write something as good. It's likely you won't succeed, but it doesn't matter as that's not important, learning new, advanced stuff is.

If all else fails, listen to jazz! I can hook you up with a list of the greatest jazz albums ever, compiled by me, not some jazzhead with a different POV.

[Mono-xID]

I'm in nearly the same situation as you for a while now. Haven't finished anything since a year now (besides my collaboration with Dean). Barely touching my gear and if I do, I feel no inspiration at all and switch it off after 20 minutes. Maybe it's due to the fact that I feel disconnected from electronic music and the scene more and more.

When I started making music I was quite excited and my goal was to make something decent which could stand against a track from a pro. After a few vinyl releases and some industry insight i just lost that fire and somehow it just won't come back.

Thing is i couldn't care less. It doesn't bother me at all.

I'm still a music maniac though. I'm heavily collecting records again and constantly finding new exciting bands, hunting rare singles and discover new genres like stoner rock or doom/sludge.

[Lost to the Void]

I think everyone voes through this to a degree.
I took last year off basically due to this.
Cancelled loads of gigs, turned down remixes and releases, turned all other gigs down bar a few special ones that I do yearly that are more like going to see family. In that time off I relearned how to play guitar and made an industrial doom metal album.
Then I bought a house and built 2 studios. After that I was all ready to knock it on the head with techno and see where the metal took me, but a bunch of vinyl releases came out that I had forgotten about and I thought "hmmm lets see if I have it in me still", and finally well over a year later I found inspiration and am making techno again, got some tours booked in autumn, currently in the process of building a new pa for the tour.
The doom metal thing gave me new ideas and techniques I have taken in to techno, so it gave me new working methods (I've also ended up with a ridiculous array of distortion boxes).
Because my mastering business really took off with the new studio I'm doing it all the time now, so after listening to music all day every day I really don't feel like listening to music recreationally, so I dont listen to much music at home, but to compensate for that I am going to lots of live gigs every month (not techno) so I get to listen to music as an event, and because I have paid for the tickets I don't duck out.

It can happen, dont stress over it. As said above try making something different, you will learn something.
You cant expect to be on techno 24_7, it can get monotonous easily and it often lacks substance.

If you feel the need to express yourself it will happen anyway.

[Mslwte]

I have experienced exactly the same as you. I feel like I've just come out of the other side of it though. I reached my target of getting a vinyl release and just felt burnt out. Music has been a major part of my life since I was 11 and learning production for the last 10 or so years. I couldn't be arsed for a bit.

But now I have realised that the spark is coming back. I want to make music again and I'm buying music again as well. I think I've bought about 10 albums in the last month and bought some vinyl last night infact. I'm also downloading mixes to listen to in the car etc. I'm finding new music, new old music and revisiting old stuff from when I was younger. I've even thought about buying vinyl again and doing some mixes. I haven't touched my decks since the end of 2014. I have also completed my xoxbox haha!

It turns out that I have 10 or so finished tracks that are ready to be released because I would dip my toe in and for a few hours a week here and there. But I wasn't pressuring myself to keep the pace up and it kinda happened without my consciously knowing it.

My advice would be to just leave music alone for a while and wait until the creative spark returns , because it will. Kick back , try something new, get stoned, spend time with your family, but keep posting on the forum eh!

[Planar]

Another thing that I've experienced was during the beginning of this drought is that I focussed my energie on something different entirely. I'm a guy who is quite intersted in plant and stuff and I always wanted a aquarium. Turns out I went totally beserk on aquarium plants and lay out and stuff. Though I still think its cool, its not for me. I'll stick with music for now.

Maybe I'm reading what you're saying here the wrong way, but I don't think it's a great idea to obsess over a single thing like this. Music, aquariums, whatever it is, if you're 100% focusing on just this one thing I think you're inviting burn-out. Having a balance of interests can be healthier, yeah, you might be diluting yourself a bit and become less productive in each one but that also keeps you engaged in each one in the longer term.

[TimBuys]

Honestly I think you should consider it as something amazing that you were able to go at it for 2 full years without getting tired of it. I started my journey about 2 years ago in which I had months where I was producing every day but also periods where I wasn't producing for several months. I personally try to mix things up by switching between reading (currently reading "How music works" by David Byrne), watching youtube tutorials and reading forums and Facebook groups. This way I won't get bored/frustrated as fast.

My goal is also to be able to one day release something that I am comfortable with and that other people will be genuinely impressed by. I think this is a modest and realistic goal set by me to avoid disappointment. Even though it can be very fulfilling to produce, are we really giving up this much of our time/life just to release a couple of tracks and that's it? Or do we set a goal that we think is realistic at the time but secretly have bigger goals/dreams like making a living out of it?

Would you really be making this post if your goals weren't bigger than just a release? You tell me!

[Mattias]

This happens to us all in phases. You probably experienced this earlier in another way, it usually happens that we get some sort of break down after we
came far enough to go beyond the learning curve and have much fun making music. In your case it's presumably the break down that can occur during the phase of
getting somewhat far in our musical journey and get some recognition. Or at a goal you set up. Understand that it is not only the music that is causing your current situation, it's the sum of all variables and pieces you've been doing as of late. If I remember right, your school projects kept you busy and ate energy as well right?

You'll get back soon enough, just don't rush it. You need to realize it took time to build all this up where you are now so let it take time to recover from it. You might only need a month or slightly more to start up small scale again.

[Will Frances]

Hi Alume, I have felt like this Many times and not just in my musical endeavors in pretty much all life tasks that are regular. Sounds like you definitely have the passion, drive and patience to commit to something. I believe that whatever you do in life if you commit to it and have to spend a lot of time and energy invested in it you will inevitably have points where you love your process and experience but will also have many points where you question absolutely everything and feel quite low about everything. When I'm feeling Burnt out or negative or lost. I try many things to regain some sort of balance. It can be anything to be honest from going somewhere new, going out alone to a night and meeting new people or hearing new music, discovering a new artist/ label, re sequencing someone else's track, writing ideas or a diary, A B ing tracks I've written a year ago to now to see progression, reading psychology or history, the list is pretty endless but hopefully you see my point. I also stopped comparing myself literally to successful artists and focused purely on my journey.

To master this craft you will hate it at points but going through it will make you more equipped for future failings and successes.

Hope that helps or makes sense in some way.

[Dussle]

I think everyone makes music for a reason; I know I have made music for specific gigs or shows or bought equipment for specific songs or bands and when that gig or event passes,I have been left quite directionless.

If your aim was to get something released, especially if it was just to reach a goal that you set yourself, then when it happens your drive will fall off. I know after creating music or playing the event I set myself out to play, there are normally a few days or weeks of feeling directionless, but soon afterwards I feel freed to make whatever music I want, some tune will inspire me and I'll be back playing with the machines.

I think, less fretting and if you want to make tunes because you want to, then you will and if you don't it's cool. That phase of life has ended.

[Alume]

I have experienced exactly the same as you. I feel like I've just come out of the other side of it though. I reached my target of getting a vinyl release and just felt burnt out. Music has been a major part of my life since I was 11 and learning production for the last 10 or so years. I couldn't be arsed for a bit.

But now I have realised that the spark is coming back. I want to make music again and I'm buying music again as well. I think I've bought about 10 albums in the last month and bought some vinyl last night infact. I'm also downloading mixes to listen to in the car etc. I'm finding new music, new old music and revisiting old stuff from when I was younger. I've even thought about buying vinyl again and doing some mixes. I haven't touched my decks since the end of 2014. I have also completed my xoxbox haha!

It turns out that I have 10 or so finished tracks that are ready to be released because I would dip my toe in and for a few hours a week here and there. But I wasn't pressuring myself to keep the pace up and it kinda happened without my consciously knowing it.

My advice would be to just leave music alone for a while and wait until the creative spark returns , because it will. Kick back , try something new, get stoned, spend time with your family, but keep posting on the forum eh!

I'll always keep posting no worries about that, and I'll always keep making music. Its not like im nailed to the ground, I'm content about it, not to frustrated.

I've left music for a couople of months and got back into it thinking it would be different. Anyway, I trust it will be oke. Like in your case it will "come back".

Haha I wouldnt have thought that I would reach the day that you would finish your xox.

Another thing that I've experienced was during the beginning of this drought is that I focussed my energie on something different entirely. I'm a guy who is quite intersted in plant and stuff and I always wanted a aquarium. Turns out I went totally beserk on aquarium plants and lay out and stuff. Though I still think its cool, its not for me. I'll stick with music for now.

Maybe I'm reading what you're saying here the wrong way, but I don't think it's a great idea to obsess over a single thing like this. Music, aquariums, whatever it is, if you're 100% focusing on just this one thing I think you're inviting burn-out. Having a balance of interests can be healthier, yeah, you might be diluting yourself a bit and become less productive in each one but that also keeps you engaged in each one in the longer term.

Hey man thanks for your input. You're totally right, though in this case it was a substitute for music. I still had my firends, family, studies, hobbies and label to look after.

I try to balance things out even the scale with the things I do, I just go full on for everything though. But that means that when I have to take a step back I step back from everything and go total detox as well.

I'm still balancing it out:) Knowing when to stop and when have a more constant pace.

Would you really be making this post if your goals weren't bigger than just a release? You tell me!

Good point, well my goal is to keep music at the side as im doing now. but do it on a proffessional level regarding releases. I want to limit gigs and earn needed money with my proffesion an an industrial designer.

This happens to us all in phases. You probably experienced this earlier in another way, it usually happens that we get some sort of break down after we
came far enough to go beyond the learning curve and have much fun making music. In your case it's presumably the break down that can occur during the phase of
getting somewhat far in our musical journey and get some recognition. Or at a goal you set up. Understand that it is not only the music that is causing your current situation, it's the sum of all variables and pieces you've been doing as of late. If I remember right, your school projects kept you busy and ate energy as well right?

You'll get back soon enough, just don't rush it. You need to realize it took time to build all this up where you are now so let it take time to recover from it. You might only need a month or slightly more to start up small scale again.

Thanks for your well overlooked insight man, i fully agree. Yeah my studies have been a major factor in my life the last couple of months. I recognise that, and I'm aware of the almost full process-oriented mind that it has put me in.

This summer I've finished my bachelor and finally have some time to gather all the pieces and come back home. Letting go and moving on, though its a big phase I'm leaving behind and it takes time I guess.

The thing is that all these things and all the aspect that put me in this spot are clean to me, they make sense. Though knowing isn't enough, I need to come to a point that I actually feel a new era. I trust it will come though, I simply wanted some extra insights of my subsekt friends who usually have been to all this stuff already:)



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I havent answered everyone I'm afraid but thanks for all the input though. Its quite helpfull. As alwyas just talking about things with people in simular situations is the best remedy, however small or big the sitaution.


I always thought that these periods lasted like a month or two, maybe 6 at most. But its seems its not more than normal, you need to reinvent your musical voice each and every time and in my case especially after my first release perhaps. A big part is that i was trying to sound a bit like my previous releases becasue i want the label to have a certain voice/vibe. The fact is that that voice/vision will only come to the surface after a few releases. I cant artifically make i sound like i want it to sounds.

Because I think thats the main point for me, you work and get surprised by the output, you analyse what you are actually trying to say with the track, make a note and then I guess move on.

[Lost to the Void]

Well if you look at it through the lense of goals then what you are experiencing is pretty logical, to me anyway.

1st (vinyl release)
First sales milepost (like 300, 500, 1000 etc)
First headliner
First big gig
1st (Vinyl) album

Etc etc

I set all of the above as goals and each time I hit a goal I also hit a slump.
A combination of "oh that isn't as fulfilling as I expected" and "what the fuck do I aim for now?"

I think it is good to have goals, a bucket list or whatever, but not put too much importance to them.

I mean I don't heed my own advice here because I go through these feelings over and over.
I think the reality is that the process of creating is where the fullfillment is really. Of getting those feelings out of you and expressing something, and all the other stuff is just a bonus.

I've only just realised this after chasing and achieving all these goals like above. I misinterpreted the feeling after achievement as disappointment, but really its just a hunger to create. Or at least for me, I've worked out that I am happiest when I am making the music. The stress beforehand of "do I still have it" or the lost goal stress of "what now? I want more" etc are basically dissipated and sated by simply doing, just getting back on the horse and doing. Making music can very much be like meditation in that respect.

Desire is the source of all suffering, as says the Buddha.
And it is true.

And even though I am saying this now, I know that I'll be getting stressed over wanting to do another album or whatever......

The internal struggles of an artist are for realz innit.....

[Stace]

I love posts like this, I really do. It is good to know that everyone experiences the same struggles and issues when a lot of the time you are all miles ahead.

The main thing that has helped me is making something totally different from what I would normally make.
I am on a 174bpm tip at the moment as a result of Boomtown. I know full well I a never going to get very far producing shiz like that but I am really enjoying making something so totally different. I think for me personally I need to be inspired and I generally am pretty good at taking in whatever it is I have recently been listening to a lot of.

[dubdub]

One thing that always works for me is going back to the basics, think about the core of what you really like about this music and disregard the rest for a second.

[Alume]

I misinterpreted the feeling after achievement as disappointment, but really its just a hunger to create.
And even though I am saying this now, I know that I'll be getting stressed over wanting to do another album or whatever......

The internal struggles of an artist are for realz innit.....

All so true. Its hard to kick back when at these times the need for expression is most imminent.

I try to channel the need towards other stuff though, but its not as satisfying at times.

One thing that always works for me is going back to the basics, think about the core of what you really like about this music and disregard the rest for a second.

I try that a lot too, though its seems its not that easy to achieve.

[Hades]

Another thing that I've experienced was during the beginning of this drought is that I focussed my energie on something different entirely. I'm a guy who is quite intersted in plant and stuff and I always wanted a aquarium. Turns out I went totally beserk on aquarium plants and lay out and stuff. Though I still think its cool, its not for me. I'll stick with music for now.

Maybe I'm reading what you're saying here the wrong way, but I don't think it's a great idea to obsess over a single thing like this. Music, aquariums, whatever it is, if you're 100% focusing on just this one thing I think you're inviting burn-out. Having a balance of interests can be healthier, yeah, you might be diluting yourself a bit and become less productive in each one but that also keeps you engaged in each one in the longer term.

^^^this.

I've always been pretty hardcore in whatever it was that I did.
I watched 20 films each month for more than a decade.
I used to do sports 3x a week
when I finally had more cash left, I restarted buying records and bought 700 pieces of vinyl in 3 years
I used to read 2 to 3 books a month
when I finally started renovating my house, I did 90% of the big thing all by myself in less than 4 years
...

but I hit rock bottom when I finally realized I was done with my shit job and facing a big depression.
hello burn-out !
Took me about 6 months to crawl out of the burn-out, and a little longer for the depression.

I always thought that because I did so many different things, I thought I couldn't get sick of them,
but it's not true, I guess I always had this feeling that I needed to get the most out of every day, every second,
and you can't keep on living like that. Some times it's perfectly ok to just waste a day, a week, or even a month not doing anything "useful" in particular.

I have a friend who is just like me : he can't ever do nothing, he always has to stay busy.
When his mrs is gone with his kid (autistic, so needs a lot of time and patience) for a week,
instead of just taking some time for himself, he already started to rebuild a roof for a shed just half an hour after she left.
I'm 200% sure he's gonna hit rock bottom some day, but he won't listen (as I never listened to anyone either).

Anyways, about a year ago, I decided to max out my time for music, so I cut down on the films.
I barely watch 4 films a month now, if even that.
And tbh, I barely miss it. I've watched sooo many films in all these years, I can honestly say I'll always love cinema,
but I also have such a substantial back catalogue of stuff that I watched now, that I can sit back more relaxed and be lass fanatic about it.
Same thing for sports.
I've done so many stupid boring exercises. If I want to decide that I want to do no sports for a month, I'll fucking hell do so.
Only takes me about a week afterwards to get back into the shape I was in before, so why not ?
Same for the books. Just built a huge library here in my house, and if I see all the books me and the mrs have...
I'll always keep on reading, but tomorrow's another day.

So anyway, I made a lot more decent music this year than ever before, even though I was in a big burn-out.
Just cause I maximized my time for music production.
But I also have big moments where I almost run away sick from the studio because I so much had it with this whole thing.
Last 2 weeks I was finishing a track (always a painful process for me), and I stopped going to the gym (too warm anyway),
and since the kids were gone a lot, I really felt like I HAD to take out the maximum of this time.
Ok, so it's pretty much finished now, but I had at least 3x where I just had to leave the studio after 4 hours because I was going totally insane from my own music.
Something that had never happened to me before in such an extreme way,
And I think a part of that is because I gave up doing anything else apart from my music. It just got too much, too intense.

[Hades]

Anyway, I once read that in order to stay mentally sane, one always needs to have a long-term goal and a short-term goal.
Short-term thing can be anything, like "I'm gonna go to this great party on friday" or "I'll watch a good film tonight".
Easy to achieve, and changes constantly. Keeps you in the short term.
But the long-term one is where most people have problems with.
A lot of people don't really have a long-term one, or if they do, it's a really basic one like "raise my kids all right",
and then when there kids leave home they get into a massive depression and can't understand why their kids tell them to leave them alone once in a while.

You have just achieved your long-term goal, and you need to set another new one.
Pay in mind, some times you don't even realize you are setting one, you are just doing this on a subconscious level, as I think you just did now with your vinyl release.
People are ALWAYS a little lost after they have achieved one of their long term goals.
It's very normal for them to need a few weeks, some times months, before they get back on their feet.
Like when you leave high school and go to college. OR finish college and have to move again or start looking for a job.
You feel really weird, don't you ?
That's because even if you were never the big study head, you always still had that "finishing school" thing at the back of your mind as a long term goal.
Maybe only because your parents wanted you to do so, but it was still there.
Hell, I even felt totally weird when I had to quit my job and go on sick leave, though I was a walking zombie after months of insomnia and they had to drag me into sick leave, so to say. I felt like "fuck, what now ?", though I basically only had to get better first.

I'm betting to say that all you need now, is to find yourself a new long-term goal,
and it don't have to be music related either,
and you'll feel way more relaxed about it all,
and even if your new long-term goal has nothing to do with music, you'll probably feel way more relaxed in the studio again,
and the music will come back as if it was never gone.

[Kromasome]

Great thread!

I've been having similar internal dialogue with myself about the point of "doing music" every night (which has been something I've tried doing for a while in the hope that it will help me to "get better" just by "doing" more often). I've been wondering "What's the point?" "Will I ever be good enough? (whatever that means)" "Why is it going nowhere" etc etc

I then start to think "who cares what happens with it" - if I keep doing it long enough and with enough passion then maybe some day there will be an audience who will want to hear my tracks, but if not, at least I've got a body of work that I can say I put effort and love into.

Maybe one day if techno and electronic music hasn't changed dramatically, my kids might be interested in having a listen and could even take some of my ideas and turn them into something "worthwhile" - while they are young enough and have enough energy to build on the ideas I've started (if they are even interested, but who knows right now - they are very young).

So, long story short - I will keep "making music" as often as I can or as often as I feel like. I think there are much more destructive or mundane "hobbies" that I could be doing so what's the harm??......

[Hades]

exactly, at least you're being creative.
it beats being a couch potato like so many others seem to be happy doing each evening

[Will Frances]

Hades why is your mixing process so painful for you ? Is it purely technical reasons? Id have thought that you could cut through a mix quite fast considering your many hours of critical listening