Your Production/Arrangement Process

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
fmshred
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Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by fmshred »

Hello!

I am interested in your Production Process with Hardware and Software.
I own an octatrack a Blofeld + Dark Energy II and a Tr-8 plus an Mixer and an effects Pedal.
What I´m doing right now is start with the sound design. Record sounds with the synths and pedal and make an Sample Chain out of them to put them into the octatrack and use them as one shots. I sequence the drums from the Tr-8 and record everything in ableton + additional effects on the Tracks. After that I could put all this back in The Octatrack and add something else and so on...Does it make sense to add things or is it better for you to record everything at once? What´s your workflow? Suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

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ross-alexander
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by ross-alexander »

Have tried allsorts mate from block by block productions in software with virtual instruments to recording and chopping up large bits of audio from machines either summed or multitrack. Arrangements wise from tidied up "jammed" arrangements to chopping down a multitrack loop subtractive to arrange. Its all good fun and all has a different sort of character. Were I to choose a preferred approach it would be something that captures a hands on element either via hardware or controller :)

buffered
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by buffered »

mostly recording 4-8 bars multitrack into a DAW and then arranging through subtraction from there. Create interest/movement with sends and volume automation.
Most important thing for me is to get everything working fairly quickly and if it isn't working, just canning it without remorse.

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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

fmshred wrote: What´s your workflow? Suggestions?

Thanks a lot!
workflow ?
I come from an age where HW was the only option,
so for some weird nostalgic reason I'm still a tiny bit addicted to having HW around,
maybe because there's a lot of synths here that some folks would really love to get their hands on for a few hours.
But honestly, none of it is necessary for my workflow apart from having an 88 hammerweighted set of keys around.

anyway, workflow :
I always try to record all my styff (HW or SW) as audio clips as much as possible.
if I used HW, it will always end up as audio clips.
If I use SW, it will end up as an audio clip 90% of the time, because I have unfortunately learned the hard way that some SW companies develop updates which make Ableton NOT recognize everything you've ever done using the previous version. The fucking fuckity fucker cunts !!!! :evil: :cry:
(yes, that's you I'm looking at, D16 and SIGMUND, god damn fuckers)

I use Ableton for all my sequencing and arrangement and mixes,
and I once read in their manual that it's a good idea to start building your own clip library,
so ever since I record all these parts, all these synths, as clips, and save them in my clip library,
usually they are even called "name synth + number and name preset + name FX unit + number FX unit preset + mixer EQ +...."
just so :
1. I don't have to think about stupid names for all my clips, I already hate it when I have to do that for all my patches.
2. if I'd like to get back to this clip and change the recording (which almost never happens), I know where I have to look.

Mind you, I have all my HW and HW FX units routed to 3 patchbays which go to and from my mixer,
and if I want to record my HW, it takes about 5 seconds before I can start recording whatever I want.
No recabling ever necessary.
This is extremely handy, if I might say so myself.
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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

oh yeah, arrangement of course, is fully done in Live,
once I decide to finish a track I start building the arrangement in the arrangement view by jamming on my APC-40 in clip view.
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TvSkY
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by TvSkY »

like others I record HW as chunks of audio . Sequence , process and arrange in live alongside software tracks

its been a few years but when I last had a big mixer I would usually go oldschool and play the HW live as midi along side SW tracks , hit play and record the mix bus

Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

Mine's very similar to Hades above in that I have a lot of hardware. Same generation as Hades I presume, and I just enjoy getting hands on as I've spent enough of my life staring at a screen.

I have all my synths, modular, drum machines and noise makers over one side of my studio, and from there I patch in any (what I consider) 'Instrument effects'... Pedals, manglers etc.

Once I have my base sound dialled, The output goes into a rack of DI boxes that convert said signal to mic level, allowing me to choose what pre amp I or stinking old valve mixer I want to amplify that signal. At this point the signal is in the patch bays and I can throw on compression, EQ, distortion and processing. It's at this stage that I may also decide on reverb and where to sit the part in the mix.

Patch to Protools and record as audio. Imperative. Stops me fucking around and endlessly tweaking in search of that great alternative to what I have spent hours (or seconds) creating in the first place. Advice: If it sounds good and excited you when you first hear it, it is most likely good enough and will excite everyone else. If you listen to it on loop for two days before committing, you'll get bored of it and try to change it to get back that initial excitement. Don't fall for it, freeze it as audio and move on.

I tend to record massive passes now, sometimes up to 15 minutes. Adjusting, editing, building the sound, working the effects, dubbing echoes etc. That way I have a massive way with natural builds and human excitement already in there. Beats the shit out of hours of automation editing. It suits me and my sound, but more importantly, after 25+ years of making music, I REALLY enjoy myself this way.

I try and keep to 8 tracks max, 16 if the track calls for it but never more. My main console is set up as an 8 channel console (but can run 16). I keep it old school, like 1960s old school. Minimal sources, better sounding mixes.

Protools is a tape machine for me. I record in, edit in it, then send them same tracks back out their individual outs. No level changes, no plugins, one for one, track for track, back out to the mixer for balance, panning and one aux that goes to either an AKG BX20 spring reverb, or the chamber i have set up in a shower room off the studio. I add a drop of that to add depth and flavour then record it down to Revox B77 tape for a stereo master.

Convoluted for those in the box I'm sure, but the process can be copied ITB, I used to work that way with just a laptop. The main thing is I love it as I said. I never get bored, I can have noise making sessions, come back and have recording/editing sessions but I've learned to not obsess as much and keep it all real quick and fluid. Bang, Bang, Bang, and I much prefer the stuff I'm producing now... mistakes and rough edges galore makes for so much more listening fun.

Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

... Thought I'd add that I often take multi-outs from my drum machines, say kick, snare and HH, and route them all to an old 4-channel valve mixer that outputs a single mono signal. I use channel 4 to bring in some mono reverb before sending the output to compression before recording.

The above process leaves me with a single, mono track of driving drums, around which I'll usually add one stereo track of something interesting and rhythmic.

Again, it harks back to the 60's when tape tracks were at a premium and so the British engineers in particular (They had massive balls), would make production decisions as they go. Get the drums how you like them, sum them to mono and Bam... commit.

Sure there are times when I wish I could go in an edit a kick or change the balance a bit, but a week down the line it almost always becomes my favourite part of the track.

I protect myself from my obsessive 'weaknesses' and constant need of control by fucking myself over in small amounts through the production process and what it yields is a Me vs. the Machines outcome. An outcome that is almost always better than the 'Me' approach.

Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

... Fuck me, I go on don't I.

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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

Kuchta wrote:... Fuck me, I go on don't I.
not at all my friend,

not at all


:lol: :lol: :lol:

8-)

;)
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Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

What can I say, I've been alone for a few days. It's good to talk!

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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

Kuchta wrote:What can I say, I've been alone for a few days. It's good to talk!
they never believe me here when I say this,
but here at home amongst my mrs and the girls,
I'm the quiet one... :D
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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

any way I can hear some of your music btw ?
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Hades
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Hades »

Kuchta wrote:What can I say, I've been alone for a few days. It's good to talk!
in case you didn't completely got that before :
to me you are not rambling,
simply because I will always be the worst rambling person here ever.
So I'm always happy to read longer posts,
makes me feel less awkward. 8-)
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fmshred
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by fmshred »

Good to hear your processes! Lately I did the following workflow.

1. Record synth lines with effects Pedals and make a long Sample chain out of it.
2. Put them into my Octatrack and use them either as loops or one shots and switch between them on different Tracks
3.The octatrack outputs get Recorded in Ableton and on the Audio Clips I put some effects assign them to a midi controller to further tweak them
4. My tr-8 into different audio clips in ableton together with effects for live tweaking.
5. If everything is working I just jam the Whole track for as long as im satisfied with it and record it on multiple audio clips in ableton
6.maybe i do some more adjustments in ableton to further tweak stuff
7. if i want to add more sounds i export the track and put it into the octatrack again to and add some more one shots or whatever the track needs...

I dpn´t know if this makes any sense it´s just a workflow i came up with

Chizmata
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Chizmata »

all im gonna say about this is that i dont ever wanna have someone watching me :D ... that would be too embarrassing.

Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

Hades wrote:any way I can hear some of your music btw ?
This forum will be the first to hear it Hades, not long now I recon. As mentioned before, I'm an obsessive freak and am just coming back to making my own music after spending way too many years producing others. As such, my latest work is little like a (misbehaved, angry and damn-right rude) child to me, and so I'm slowly waiting until I am completely happy with it before it comes out, kinda personal (which means it will be sickeningly introverted and will not play well with others).

Like I mentioned though, I'm very happy with the way things are going, and plan to start uploading in the next month or two, just weeding out the chaff.

Kuchta
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Kuchta »

I think the pattern to most of what has been discussed in this thread is that a lot of people are committing things to audio before remixing with those clips, samples, files etc.

I think this is really good and very healthy for music as it means there is a lot of people using already-processed sounds as their own starting points which always leads to interesting stuff as opposed to those people who hit Ableton or Reason and just go about Sonic-Raping with a nag full of presents.

I have toyed with the idea of Octatrack or Push to extend the remixing side of what I do but I found Octatrack to steer me in a particular way that I wasn't happy with, and after spending 5yrs building a studio that is all about sound quality and signal chain, I'm not ready to warp the shit out of my sounds and have the quality suffer in Ableton. I know you can ditch warping, and bypass the internal summing, but then you loose out on most of what Push is about so I'm sticking where I am for the time being and perfecting what I have.

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WOLF!
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by WOLF! »

Sometimes I just record the output of my mixer and do a live recording, but I miss the options to adjust thing afterwards.
So I now record audio tracks and make the arrangement in Live.

Alume
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Re: Your Production/Arrangement Process

Post by Alume »

Atm I'm running 2-3 outboard machines and sequencing them with ableton push2.

Its all kept in sync by a multiclock so iI can run software stuff next to the outbaord gear.

This hybrid setup is perfect for me as its all the same procedures now: record and cut out the good bits and jam out parts 1 by 1


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