RMS Levels
Re: RMS Levels
I'll hijack this thread for a question on Sonimus Satson - When I use Ableton's 909 and I try to get the levels to peak around 0 in Satson, I always end up clipping the channel in that little meter near the plugin window. The input levels from the drum rack are really low by default but if I turn it up there it still ends up clipping if I try to level it in Satson. Am I doing something wrong?
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Lost to the Void
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Re: RMS Levels
No it means the sample has some very wild transients at the beginning of the sound that are clipping out.
In this case what yiu could is the same if you were in the studio recording/tracking.
Throw a compressor in front of the Satson to control the wayward transients. Then you should be able to level up the sound in the satson more effectively.
In this case what yiu could is the same if you were in the studio recording/tracking.
Throw a compressor in front of the Satson to control the wayward transients. Then you should be able to level up the sound in the satson more effectively.
Re: RMS Levels
Quick question to make sure I get this right : You would go with super fast attack/release settings on the compressor to only affect those transients right?Lost to the Void wrote:No it means the sample has some very wild transients at the beginning of the sound that are clipping out.
In this case what yiu could is the same if you were in the studio recording/tracking.
Throw a compressor in front of the Satson to control the wayward transients. Then you should be able to level up the sound in the satson more effectively.
For some reason I had the misconception that you would "always" try to not affect transients with a compressor. Not sure why though.
Thanks
Re: RMS Levels
It really depends. If you want to go down the "shave a little transients away" route with a compressor I'd suggest to go with the most transparent compressor you can get your hands on.
TDR Kotlnikov is very good for this, and you don't need to go "super fast" e.g below 4 milliseconds with it to get the job done. The new . Inertia mode in the latest version of the GE edition handles this very well with a ratio of 2.5 and decently quick attack / release setting to shave away 1 or so dB of transients in a very good way. Just remember to adjust the sidechain so it doesn't affect too much fo the lows.
TDR Kotlnikov is very good for this, and you don't need to go "super fast" e.g below 4 milliseconds with it to get the job done. The new . Inertia mode in the latest version of the GE edition handles this very well with a ratio of 2.5 and decently quick attack / release setting to shave away 1 or so dB of transients in a very good way. Just remember to adjust the sidechain so it doesn't affect too much fo the lows.
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Re: RMS Levels
Thank you Mattias
I've just tried to reproduce what you said with a clap sound (default ableton 909) that I processed to exaggerate the first transients.
Here is an album of screenshots to illustrate.
http://imgur.com/a/QYRg7
Even though I think I understand your explanation and how it should work, I have not been able to reproduce what you said i.e. shaving off a few dBs off the first transients.
I get slightly better results when I lower the attack setting to the minimum (0.02 ms) but still the very very first peak is not moved at all.
My conclusion is that either:
- I missed something in your explanation/did something wrong
- the example is too extreme to work (I think not)
- in that case a compressor is not the answer
I've just tried to reproduce what you said with a clap sound (default ableton 909) that I processed to exaggerate the first transients.
Here is an album of screenshots to illustrate.
http://imgur.com/a/QYRg7
Even though I think I understand your explanation and how it should work, I have not been able to reproduce what you said i.e. shaving off a few dBs off the first transients.
I get slightly better results when I lower the attack setting to the minimum (0.02 ms) but still the very very first peak is not moved at all.
My conclusion is that either:
- I missed something in your explanation/did something wrong
- the example is too extreme to work (I think not)
- in that case a compressor is not the answer
Re: RMS Levels
Hrm, I do not know how about the Ableton compressor specifics but check on the possibilities to affect knee settings and look ahead.
However I'd try another solution to that sound on the picture, toss it into the audio editor, mark the initial transient and attenuate the marked area to suit your wishes.
That's by far the most transparent method to use.
However I'd try another solution to that sound on the picture, toss it into the audio editor, mark the initial transient and attenuate the marked area to suit your wishes.
That's by far the most transparent method to use.
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Lost to the Void
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Re: RMS Levels
Yeah.
I mean look at it in a traditional studio recording methodology.
When you are in a recording studio recording vocals say, or drums, you will quite often process during the tracking (recording) process.
You might run the vocals through a compressor to control hard plosives (running as a de-esser), or the drums through compression to control hard transients from a hard hitting drummer.
Processing during tracking is generally gentle, and generally transparent.
So you are doing the same here, you could consider the effects you apply prior to the satson channel to be done during the tracking phase, and anything post satson to be the mixing phase.
So a nice fast compressor (or levelling amp) to shave a db or so off of the transients.
If the transients are so hard that they are clipping the satson out when it is 0db rms then you aren't going to miss shaving a few db off of them at all because that is waaaay more dynamic action than dance music dictates. Dance music is generally not that dynamic compared to other music.
You could use amps or other ways to round off the transients, but compression gives you the most control.
I mean look at it in a traditional studio recording methodology.
When you are in a recording studio recording vocals say, or drums, you will quite often process during the tracking (recording) process.
You might run the vocals through a compressor to control hard plosives (running as a de-esser), or the drums through compression to control hard transients from a hard hitting drummer.
Processing during tracking is generally gentle, and generally transparent.
So you are doing the same here, you could consider the effects you apply prior to the satson channel to be done during the tracking phase, and anything post satson to be the mixing phase.
So a nice fast compressor (or levelling amp) to shave a db or so off of the transients.
If the transients are so hard that they are clipping the satson out when it is 0db rms then you aren't going to miss shaving a few db off of them at all because that is waaaay more dynamic action than dance music dictates. Dance music is generally not that dynamic compared to other music.
You could use amps or other ways to round off the transients, but compression gives you the most control.
Re: RMS Levels
OK that makes a lot of sense thank you both.