What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and male!

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Dust Layer
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Dust Layer »

Hades wrote:
Dust Layer wrote:When i said unique i thought about genetic first and all the characteristics associated with.
Then about our history, where we come from, experiences and so on.
yeah, I understand what you're saying,
but even so, those "unique" experiences, to name just one thing,
well, I've heard 95% of them before.

and honestly, there is absolutely no shame whatsoever in us all not being unique,
we are all just little twinkling (?? really ?? :idea: :?: ) stars somewhere in the universe,
a bunch of atoms that will be gone in no time,
ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

but it says a lot about our current society that it fools us into believing we are all totally unique individuals.
I'm guessing we probably have 80% of whatever happens in our lives in common with most of our peers on our side of the planet.
from the remaining 20%, there's probably still 10% that we have in common with quite a few others.
So what's left ? a remaining 10%, which only counts for those who like to step out of line more,
those who don't just swallow whatever our commercial society wants to shove down our throats,
those who like critical thinking and prefer to select their own music/films/books,
instead of just following whatever is on the radio/cable tv or the bestseller lists. :)
The genetic and DNA thing is the most important element in my reply.
According to science we are all different from all others. (like everything in the universe)

About the experiences, i didn't say they were unique but it's more about the global path someone is taking.
The combination of everything.

The same experience will be perceived in an unique way by everyone (very slightly different most of time of course) we can't really imagine what it is to be someone else.


But i get what you're saying, you are more talking on a social side.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Hades »

Dust Layer wrote: The genetic and DNA thing is the most important element in my reply.
According to science we are all different from all others. (like everything in the universe)

About the experiences, i didn't say they were unique but it's more about the global path someone is taking.
The combination of everything.

The same experience will be perceived in an unique way by everyone (very slightly different most of time of course) we can't really imagine what it is to be someone else.


But i get what you're saying, you are more talking on a social side.
ok, yes, now I totally agree with you.
You can't argue with DNA. :D
And yeah, it's true that the whole combination of what you experienced in your life is what makes your life unique compared to the life of your neighbour or friend or...
And you're absolutely right about the perception thing.

I once had a talk with a piano teacher who I sometimes ask to write out sheet music for me
(I can play it, but I can't write it, it's been too long ago since my classical education).
Anyway, the piece had a sort of treated piano sound in there.
And she was like "what piano ? I don't hear a piano."
So I had to convince her I was after that treated piano, and yes, that was a piano. :)

And she knows John Cage and Nils Frahm and... so she knows what a treated normally piano sounds like
(though yes, as a perfect example here, every treated piano is unique in a way).
But she just didn't hear it in this case, she never considered that sound to be a piano.
And this is a piano teacher !
So yeah, in the end she said "Wouldn't the world be great if some day, we would be able to crawl into each other's heads,
so we could see/smell/hear with each others eyes/noses/ears ? Imagine how much we would learn from each other."
And I honestly couldn't agree more. :)

Apologies if I might have sounded jaded, or cynical about the human species.
I just finished reading a book about psychology a few days ago,
and the author described how many times he had people in front of him who were telling him about whatever problem they were there for,
and how he was able to predict the outcome of their story so many times.
His clients would always be amazed he could do this, while he said it's just the result of having had so many people tell their story.
There are a lot more similarities between people than differences.
And I believe that as well.
And tbh, I'm really fed up with a society who is always focusing on the individual, who is trying to make us believe we are all such unique snowflakes.
It's all because it makes stupid shit sell better, and it just makes people have more ego as well.
The world would be a far better place if we would focus more on what we have in common with each other instead on what the relatively small differences are.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Mattias »

Hades wrote:
Mattias wrote:
Indeed and thus it is truly backwards to treat people who can't do anything about how they were born, the same way or worse, then many of the low-life shit pricks who mistreated minorities and people who didn't fit the current "norm" to begin with. Be it from the past or now. We've come a long way and it sometimes baffles me, as a Swede, when I look at some countries and how they treat, for example, women.

....
This is also so very true. Massive intolerance are born from groups that preach tolerance to begin with. I mean what the hell?

1. Do remind yourself of that important detail man. Sweden has one of the best social structures, and hell, societies in general on this planet.
Really, a LOT of countries could learn from studying some of the Swedish structures. :shock:
Just felt like I should comment a little on this. Now, if I would happen to be a nationalist I would probably get a boner reading your post.
The thing is, the last decade we activity been very good at decimating and undo much of our society. And part of that have been in motion for longer then that. While some things improved a lot has been ruined, especially when it comes to the social security and traditional "Swedish well-being". However, the last 15 months or so the country been doing really well, productivity wise and came to better solutions solving some unemployment. John Cleese welcomed us to the rest of Europe a while ago since we have a legitimate far-right-brown-nationalist party in our parliament. Haha
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Dust Layer »

Hades wrote: I just finished reading a book about psychology a few days ago,
and the author described how many times he had people in front of him who were telling him about whatever problem they were there for,
and how he was able to predict the outcome of their story so many times.
His clients would always be amazed he could do this, while he said it's just the result of having had so many people tell their story.
There are a lot more similarities between people than differences.
And I believe that as well.
And tbh, I'm really fed up with a society who is always focusing on the individual, who is trying to make us believe we are all such unique snowflakes.
It's all because it makes stupid shit sell better, and it just makes people have more ego as well.
The world would be a far better place if we would focus more on what we have in common with each other instead on what the relatively small differences are.
It's interesting because what is see is more society merging people into a single model than pushing individualities.
Of course a lot of people are simply selfish and you have that (marketed) ego thing in one hand like you said, but at the same time people are more into mimic others than developing their own particularities.

It's like how globalisation is erasing difference between cultures, like people from the most distant area possibles in the world are watching the same tv shows, listening to the same music.
Which i find a bit depressing and dangerous.

I understand what you mean we should focus more on some shared interests and move forward, but singularities are important too, maybe it's one of the most precious thing we have.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Lost to the Void »

Dust Layer wrote:
Hades wrote: I just finished reading a book about psychology a few days ago,
and the author described how many times he had people in front of him who were telling him about whatever problem they were there for,
and how he was able to predict the outcome of their story so many times.
His clients would always be amazed he could do this, while he said it's just the result of having had so many people tell their story.
There are a lot more similarities between people than differences.
And I believe that as well.
And tbh, I'm really fed up with a society who is always focusing on the individual, who is trying to make us believe we are all such unique snowflakes.
It's all because it makes stupid shit sell better, and it just makes people have more ego as well.
The world would be a far better place if we would focus more on what we have in common with each other instead on what the relatively small differences are.
It's interesting because what is see is more society merging people into a single model than pushing individualities.
Of course a lot of people are simply selfish and you have that (marketed) ego thing in one hand like you said, but at the same time people are more into mimic others than developing their own particularities.

It's like how globalisation is erasing difference between cultures, like people from the most distant area possibles in the world are watching the same tv shows, listening to the same music.
Which i find a bit depressing and dangerous.

I understand what you mean we should focus more on some shared interests and move forward, but singularities are important too, maybe it's one of the most precious thing we have.

This.

Homegenisation.
Make everyone the same so you can sell them the same shit.

I think its a marketing thing, they market to people telling them they are all unique in the same way.
But I see absolutely no unique snowflake trend in society as a whole, quite the opposite. Conformity is probably more entrenched now than ever, because marketing is so quick to spot an income possibility. That is why we have had no new youth revolution.
The rave scene was the last new anti establishment movement really. It was the last "outrageous" movement that worried the authorities. 20 fucking years ago. And now look at it now that USA finally worked out how to market that shit.
I feel sorry for kids wanting to vent and turn against...... They dont stand a chance..
Its all about success now. Success.
Fuck, the most boring generation ever.

There is more expectation, people want shit NOW but that is not to be confused with uniquity.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Dust Layer »

Lost to the Void wrote: That is why we have had no new youth revolution.
The rave scene was the last new anti establishment movement really. It was the last "outrageous" movement that worried the authorities. 20 fucking years ago. And now look at it now that USA finally worked out how to market that shit.
I feel sorry for kids wanting to vent and turn against...... They dont stand a chance..
Its all about success now. Success.
Fuck, the most boring generation ever.

There is more expectation, people want shit NOW but that is not to be confused with uniquity.
A revolution will come sooner or later (i hope) and maybe it will be a huge one because too much things are canalized and gently packed for a long time now.
The best things come from an unexpected place and time i think.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Hades »

so IS is not a revolution ?? :lol: :lol:
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Mslwte »

Dust Layer wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: That is why we have had no new youth revolution.
The rave scene was the last new anti establishment movement really. It was the last "outrageous" movement that worried the authorities. 20 fucking years ago. And now look at it now that USA finally worked out how to market that shit.
I feel sorry for kids wanting to vent and turn against...... They dont stand a chance..
Its all about success now. Success.
Fuck, the most boring generation ever.

There is more expectation, people want shit NOW but that is not to be confused with uniquity.
A revolution will come sooner or later (i hope) and maybe it will be a huge one because too much things are canalized and gently packed for a long time now.
The best things come from an unexpected place and time i think.
I think you're forgetting the hipster revolution eh
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Mattias »

Pokemon Go revolution.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Hades »

Mattias wrote: For some time now a female deejay / producer college to me been constantly bullied by radical feminists on parties, her Facebook and similar social media.

my 1st thought when I read this actually was :
Have you been fooling around with Ida again Mattias ? :lol:
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by gedda »

I'm an American, not white, male, and hetero. Here's my perspective

First I gotta say I'm an armchair radical, so I would be radical feminist. Quite frankly, I'm not going to call out individual women for their choices, I don't know what Mattias' specific situation is but I know that on the lower end of DJing that a woman that people think are ugly won't get anywhere. If a woman doesn't want to look homely, go ahead and do it. You have to navigate your way through patriarchy and neoliberalism. I think it's better to point out systemic issues than harassing individuals; this however does not mean your lifestyle is beyond criticism.

Secondly, feminism in America is pretty messed up since its neoliberal. Even the progressive feminism here is complicit with neoliberalism since they wanted Bernie who is just liberalism with a human face. It's tied with big banks. I gotta say that it's pretty racist too and as a man of color I am very suspicious of liberal feminism. Liberalism has infiltrated identity politics in the USA, the liberals here want equality and equity except when it comes to fucking class. They want CEOs who are gay mixed women and stuff. But surprise! There's still an oppressive hierarchy in that since someone is a CEO!

So yeah, screw neoliberalism.

So Mattias, you are white, male, and heterosexual. How much money do you make though? You don't have to answer that question, but I'm sure being a techno artist anywhere in the world has its struggles. Here in the USA no one will bat an eye if someone talks about how women in the workforce need to be examined and pushed to be CEOs or managers. They're pretty much talking about how to become gamers in an oppressive system. In the USA it would sound ridiculous for a man to talk about how to climb the ladder of masculinity, but there are men who start off the bottom, but isn't this similar to my first example? My point is that all class types are intersecting and competing against each other and the system makes the little person stomp on people. This is why I think it's ridiculous to call out individuals who are white, straight, etc. because they have to protect their given class' capital BECAUSE IT IS SYSTEMIC and you're forced to get to the top or get shoved down. We live in a world of the have and have nots. Telling them to "check their privilege" does nothing because what happens is they check it, they get self-indulgent in their guilt and then nothing happens. No revolution of our social world across all lines is asked when you say that. Congratulations, I checked I'm hetero and male, you didn't ask me to revolutionize sexuality or gender. And in all likelihood, you didn't ask me how much money I make.

The thing is there was a good reason for identity politics in the United States. People used to reduce everything to class and men would tell women "your women's rights causes are the cause of classism and your revolution comes secondary." but the thing is identity politics went beyond radical and ivory tower circles and into a population which was already reactionary and conservative. This is why you have liberal feminism in the USA. Any feminist with a radical vision gets buried.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Mattias »

Very interesting post. Thank you for that.

I think I agree with most of it but I might need to read it again haha.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Lost to the Void »

The idea of feminism, of racism etc as thoughforms, is a very clever way to divide people over the real issue of equality.
Instead of across the board equality, you have feminists arguing with, let's say hypothetically, the gay pride movement.
"our problem of equality is worse than yours"

It should be everyone coming together to stand for equality in general, not just about class or sex or sexual persuasion or race.
And this is the problem with the (mostly US led) feminist movement, for example. It declares itself the "most important issue of equality" aggressively, and merely plays in to the game of divisiveness TPTB use to maintain power structures.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by rktic »

Lost to the Void wrote: One love brothers and sisters, one love.
This.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:The idea of feminism, of racism etc as thoughforms, is a very clever way to divide people over the real issue of equality.
Instead of across the board equality, you have feminists arguing with, let's say hypothetically, the gay pride movement.
"our problem of equality is worse than yours"

It should be everyone coming together to stand for equality in general, not just about class or sex or sexual persuasion or race.
And this is the problem with the (mostly US led) feminist movement, for example. It declares itself the "most important issue of equality" aggressively, and merely plays in to the game of divisiveness TPTB use to maintain power structures.

One love brothers and sisters, one love.
This is why I'm happy that we call absolutely everyone cunts on subsekt.
We're all equal, we're all cunts. 8-)

Just this small thought that popped into my head however :
we talk all bout equality now, and we would hope for nothing more than a world where we do get to be treated all equal.
But then again, would you like to be on the same playlist as some lame-ass cunt IDM act ???
We don't really like all the different names that mostly the music journalists come up with,
but on the other hand there is a clear distinction between what we (try to) do and what some IDM producer is doing.

Anyways, just a small thought, I know it has very little to do with serious problems like gender or race discrimination.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Stace »

Lost to the Void wrote:
StacieAnne wrote:Well, yes, youth is different, if it wasn't I would still be listening to Steps and PJ and Duncan. Music is a journey and mostly it starts off in a manufactured pop type environment. Justin Beiber is a male, that will attract females to go to his gig as they are attracted to him.

Ok, I am going to try my absolute best to put this as clearly and concisely as I can (it may be pushing it today on my 1.5 hours sleep due to the heat) but here goes...

Yes, certainly there are notable differences in gender, my point and it may have been lost somewhere along the way is there are and have always been forces at work that have lead to an unbalanced playing-field in favour of men. I get that, you get that. I am not going to start going down the route of calling Patriarchy because that is not helpful.

I personally speaking to do not see a fundamental difference in gender in terms of a person's character. I don't know if this is down to the fact the the females I hang out with would not describe themselves as "atypically feminine" (I fucking hate that term) or the men I hangout with are not what you would call "traditional lads"
It is all a bit of a mess and I think society has an issue with supporting women who fall outside of Playboy model type femininity. Social constructs of gender need to fuck off, gender roles are changing and by not embracing that it only give heed to all the time before the last 60 years that women have been permitted to go to work. I still can't get away from the fact by stating many times men and women are different if it giving weight to the outdated notion of these gender roles.

I don't view myself to be any different to anyone who posts on here, I don't consider myself fundamentally different to any of you. We are all here as we have a pretty strong passion for the same thing. I think *that* it what is should be about. Male/ female, who cares??

Then you have things like perceived positive discrimination in forms of things like "all female" lineups at club nights.
It isn't forward thinking and very much makes a spectacle of females in a similar way to what you mentioned about your sister.
This is coming from the same place in me that fucking hates the notion of hen-parties and lads night out when my friends of of both genders, I want them to all be there. Why segregate friendships and experiences based on gender alone??

Anyways, I am staring to get into points that are not relevant.

Well i think the confusion comes in treatment.
We are different but we should be treated fairly.

One of the reasons I find your opinion so valuable here is that you bring a uniquely female Perspective to a predominantly male discussion. This forum is mostly men.

Are gender roles changing? We are told they are, but are they? You cant force change. In some cases it is not happening naturally and it is causing trouble.
This is the issue. It shouldnt be about transforming gender roles. You are what you are. Its about making everything more fair, its not about trying make everyone think or behave the same.

Now I have a mate who has gone through gender reassignment. She is an innie, used to be an outie.
She is constantly bashing people that it shouldn't be an issue and it is 2016 and yadayada
Now I mostly agree. Before I was a techno head I was in the industrial scene. This is in the 90's when gender stereotypes were stronger.
The industrial scene has always been connected to counterculture at its most subversive. The modern primitive movement for example, we were getting weird shit pierced when it was not accepted at all, not like now where every hipster has a toilet seat in their ear tunnel piercing. Psychic TV, sex magick etc all this stuff was challenging gender 2 decades and more ago.
The scene was connected to the fetish scene (such as torture garden), the gay scene, modern primitives etc. It was the home for all the freaks and misfits, where everyone was accepted.
Post op transsexuals appeared in our scene in the early 90's. They really were the rosa parks for that whole movement. It was soooo hard to even get permission to have the surgery, you had to go through years of psychiatric observation. One of my friends back then, shelley, made the change. Her life was incredibly difficult for her. Even within the community of counterculturalism, being transgender was sort of mistrusted. They were down the bottom.
So anyway, getting back to the person I know who is newly transgendered, she has it relatively easy, but doesnt understand that it is still not normalised. Of course it isn't, it is a big change. It shouldnt matter, but of course it does. She has been brought up in this confusing neoliberal world where you are told everyonenis the same, but reality is constantly at odds with her expectation.
Having surgery to transform yourself is not a normal process.
Now I dont actually give a fuck what you think you are, what genitals you want, and what type of genitals you want to rub your genitals against, if you arent hurting anyone (non consensually) just get on with it.

But we are different, this is why people feel the need to go transgender.

Weirdly some people within the... Blurred gender community think that having a sex change op is a kind of betrayal, because rather than naturally nust being what you are, you are conforming to gender stereotypes by changing to a more appropriate gender for your behaviour.

I have no Idea what to even think about that.

So yeah, we are different, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but at the same time we want the same things, mostly.
Ugh, I have had this open to reply to you since before I went away, sorry.
I had actually spent some time thinking about this while I was away as well.

I also, for some reason keep quite a close eye on the transgender community and I understand that they are perceived, even in their own view as different but I think there is where I was starting to get, feel heated...generally speaking, different in my mind equals inequality of some kind which leads to further issues that I had previously mentioned down the line.
I say this as someone who doesn't consider their self someone who doesn't living within the confines or those awfully typical gender roles.
Pretty much all my life I had felt like I was on the outside as I was always way more into music that my friends when I was growing up and I was super into gaming as well, back then I guess they would have been considered attributes that were more male-centric activities, not that I am *ok* with that stance or even saying that but it is completely feasible that my perspective on this is somewhat off kilter due to the above BUT I can only really go with my gut feeling on this and the actual real life experiences I have had.

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Lost to the Void »

I think, essentially, the problem is not wether or not we are different, of course we are.
The problem is that it shouldn't matter.
Thats what I have learned living a lifetime in counterculture, of being an outsider living amongst outsiders, it is our differences that are interesting, gay, straight, man, woman, bi, nerds, geeks, goths, freaks, whatever....., and embracing them is a whole lot more interesting and fulfilling then denying them, or worse, trying to rub them out, to make us all the same.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Dust Layer »

Funny how this conversation is interesting and the directions it explores, thanks Mattias :D

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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:I think, essentially, the problem is not wether or not we are different, of course we are.
The problem is that it shouldn't matter.
.
^^ that line sums it all up perfectly.
Lost to the Void wrote: Thats what I have learned living a lifetime in counterculture, of being an outsider living amongst outsiders, it is our differences that are interesting, gay, straight, man, woman, bi, nerds, geeks, goths, freaks, whatever....., and embracing them is a whole lot more interesting and fulfilling then denying them, or worse, trying to rub them out, to make us all the same.
if people would be more interested in each other, they would learn a hell of a lot more than if they just keep fighting each other.
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Re: What can I do to better myself? I'm white, hetero and ma

Post by Stace »

Sigh :( It shouldn't matter. It really really shouldn't.


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