Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

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kingrad
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by kingrad »

I love digital files as long as its WAV

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Lost to the Void »

Wiu wrote: There will always be people that will do it just for the love of doing it and being creative. If what you say did turn out to be true, I imagine big name pop/bands would be most effected. And honestly, some of those cunts could do with fucking off anyway.
That's not quite true. Sure some amateurs will carry on, but equipment, studios etc all cost money, and to be good at something you need to be able to devote your time to it, not try to fit it in after slaving away in another profession.
There's a whole infrastructure that keeps professional quality music by talented artists out there and it can easily collapse unless the artists are supported.

I certainly don't object to giving artists I like money.
One of the reasons I like bandcamp is the option to pay more for something if you want.
It's like adding a tip.
I've done it loads of times when paying for music from artists I want to support.
I don't understand the objection.
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by crowsbelikecaw »

Lost to the Void wrote: One of the reasons I like bandcamp is the option to pay more for something if you want.
It's like adding a tip.

This is a great point. So often artists will give music away or offer it on the cheap for exposure. It's good to be able to give, or give extra, for stuff like that especially. Albums are typically a few bucks less expensive on BC than on other formats, especially for higher res stuff, so bumping it up to "normal" prices still gets potentially far more money into the hands of the artist.
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chava
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by chava »

Lost to the Void wrote: That's not quite true. Sure some amateurs will carry on, but equipment, studios etc all cost money, and to be good at something you need to be able to devote your time to it, not try to fit it in after slaving away in another profession.
There's a whole infrastructure that keeps professional quality music by talented artists out there and it can easily collapse unless the artists are supported.
Okay this could easily turn into an discussion on political economy and the value of art, but anyways: IMO, if you see yourself as an 'artist' you should cut as much ties to the economic system around you as possible. 'Professional artist' is an oxymoron, really. That does not mean that artists should starve, of course not.
I am also quite sceptical about the very close relation between fan and artist social media (also bandcamp) promotes, also i economic way of artist living by 'tipping'. Hard to imagine a novelist work like that.

And btw, there is almost zero cost in acquiring the material necessities to get involved music production nowadays. Why do you think electronic music is exploding in the third world countries?

I think economical infrastructure you talk about is very much tilting towards hardware/software production companies (witness the endless stream of new controllers, gadgets and whatnot announced almost daily). If I was an 'professional artist' I would buy stock in Native or Ableton (ain't that what youknowwho did?)

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by The_G »

Assume everyone's heard the rumors about iTunes being shuttered and Apple moving to just streaming, then.

Not clear that it's true, but it's plausible. And even if I don't care much for iTunes, it's an ominous sign.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Mattias »

More people should try to be in the shoes of an artist who been trying to, and managed to, live on music their whole life (with the obvious drop ins and outs).

I fucking hate the "only do it for love" comment, people who drop that one have no single utter shitty idea what they are talking about, ever.
The same people are often the true hobbyist musicians that make a little music a couple of hours each week. Nothing wrong with that, but they have no right to say cvrap like that if they have no understanding what it means to live on their music.
The "for the love thing" is actually turning out to be REAL love when you do it everyday, months and years, decades. The income gets figured out later in relation to the music. :idea:

I'll borrow this one for emphasis Steve:
Lost to the Void wrote: to be good at something you need to be able to devote your time to it, not try to fit it in after slaving away in another profession.
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by The_G »

Mattias wrote:More people should try to be in the shoes of an artist who been trying to, and managed to, live on music their whole life (with the obvious drop ins and outs).

I fucking hate the "only do it for love" comment, people who drop that one have no single utter shitty idea what they are talking about, ever.
The same people are often the true hobbyist musicians that make a little music a couple of hours each week. Nothing wrong with that, but they have no right to say cvrap like that if they have no understanding what it means to live on their music.
The "for the love thing" is actually turning out to be REAL love when you do it everyday, months and years, decades. The income gets figured out later in relation to the music. :idea:

I'll borrow this one for emphasis Steve:
Lost to the Void wrote: to be good at something you need to be able to devote your time to it, not try to fit it in after slaving away in another profession.
EDIT, quote shit
I hear you. I'm a hobbyist musician, I guess. I work a very demanding job and have few prospects of ever making money off of music. And I understand how this limits me in relation to people who do make money off of music and so can spend more time doing it.

While I do think people in my position create good and worthwhile music, it's a problem if that's all there is. A healthy ecosystem requires full-timers as well as part-timers. And in order for there to be full-timers, people have to be willing to exchange money for goods and services.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by ashley BORG »

I think of my salary as a designer pretty good. +£40k
Translating that in to sales alone (not including gigging as a DJ), seems like a lot to be done, considering what we know about vinyl and digital sales plus profit margins.

To be honest my basic assumption, is that without DJing most full-time music artists would struggle to make anything like that a year.

Maybe this is the reason why most "producers" feel a pressure in becoming DJs or Live PAs, since it's likely more profitable.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Mono-xID »

Mattias wrote:More people should try to be in the shoes of an artist who been trying to, and managed to, live on music their whole life (with the obvious drop ins and outs).

I fucking hate the "only do it for love" comment, people who drop that one have no single utter shitty idea what they are talking about, ever.
The same people are often the true hobbyist musicians that make a little music a couple of hours each week. Nothing wrong with that, but they have no right to say cvrap like that if they have no understanding what it means to live on their music.
The "for the love thing" is actually turning out to be REAL love when you do it everyday, months and years, decades. The income gets figured out later in relation to the music. :idea:

I'll borrow this one for emphasis Steve:
Lost to the Void wrote: to be good at something you need to be able to devote your time to it, not try to fit it in after slaving away in another profession.
EDIT, quote shit
Image

Also let me quote the most underrated rap crew ever (Cunninlynguists):

"For the love" is a hard reason to keep my life in suspension.
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by chava »

I agree with the notion that making music/art is _work_ - the con amore tag is bullshit and condescending.

But still my point remains that if you are financially dependent (whatever the amount of income) on your music (production and/or performance) you should be very aware of how the work or 'art' you do is inevitably influenced by a the dependency of income - manifest in the constant need to churn out releases, perform the right places (in a certain way), present yourself as an 'artist' with a profile accessible through social media or alternatively shroud yourself in pseudo-mysterious narratives. You might say that is only context, and the music itself stays as it is, but I don't believe that.

If you are so lucky to have a day job with reasonable work hours and wage, you are in some way better positioned to work with art "independent" of a capitalist system - and that in a way that allows for critique and subversion in other forms than the usual cliched oppositional aesthestics.

Lots of great artworks have been made by people who had day jobs. Hell, even techno records.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Wiu »

I meant no offence to those present that do make a living as an artist/DJ, good for you. My point was that in the worst case scenario and for whatever reason no fucker out there ever paid for music ever again, music would still get created. Sure you wouldn't be able to spend all your time producing, but I'm positive you would still make music wouldn't you in any free time you could? And you guys (I'd like to hope) do do it for the love of it. It's just that you're extremely talented at what you do which is why you can make a living off your output/playing live/DJing. Hell, just the help you dish out in 'The Hole' is a testament to that. Well done!!!

Myself and many others here do just do it as a hobby and although it's a term that might not go down well, I really do just do it for the love of it. The amount of money I've put into it over the years, the amount of my free time I put into it, the frustrations faced, overcome etc etc etc, I just can't think of a better way describing it.

So yah, no offence meant gents. My bad.
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Lost to the Void »

chava wrote:I agree with the notion that making music/art is _work_ - the con amore tag is bullshit and condescending.

But still my point remains that if you are financially dependent (whatever the amount of income) on your music (production and/or performance) you should be very aware of how the work or 'art' you do is inevitably influenced by a the dependency of income - manifest in the constant need to churn out releases, perform the right places (in a certain way), present yourself as an 'artist' with a profile accessible through social media or alternatively shroud yourself in pseudo-mysterious narratives. You might say that is only context, and the music itself stays as it is, but I don't believe that.

If you are so lucky to have a day job with reasonable work hours and wage, you are in some way better positioned to work with art "independent" of a capitalist system - and that in a way that allows for critique and subversion in other forms than the usual cliched oppositional aesthestics.

Lots of great artworks have been made by people who had day jobs. Hell, even techno records.

There is an element of truth to that ie financial pressures, though those pressures have only become abyssal in force now due to music sales not being there any more, that is what forces the churning out of releases, that is down to market pressure.
And sure there are plenty of artists who have found jobs, usually low paid weird hours, that allow them to append as much time doing their art as possible, but full day jobbers...... Jobs suck the life out of you for the most part.
I've been there, I've done all sorts of work to support myself as an artist, now I consider myself lucky in that I have monetised my studio skills outside of my music making, so I am free from certain pressures on my art, but not everyone can do that.

It's an interesting discussion, but essentially there is no argument against paying an artist for the work they have done if you use it/consume it.
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Stace »

Does anyone use Bandcamp for samples?? I am after some new ones and I got a decent pack from where a little while ago.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by chava »

Lost to the Void wrote:
It's an interesting discussion, but essentially there is no argument against paying an artist for the work they have done if you use it/consume it.
Of course, I just prefer to buy a physical product because I am a sucker for material objects and feel kinda queasy about the so-called digital economy.
Also the serial monopolization of music platforms (yesterday beatport, bandcamp now apparently) is mildly annoying, but maybe some new blockchain technology will change that and bypass all middlemen (yeah, right.. )

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Lost to the Void »

Oddly enough it is physical media that have always traditionally been the chain around the artists neck in electronic music, being more beholden to sales and pressures from distributers etc making true artistic freedom and experimentation difficult... as well as monetarily fucking the artist.

I'm an old fuck from the physical media generation, and I still get that weird old fuck pang for a physical product. Luckily that thinking is kinda dying out and mostly I'm over it now, unless I buy direct from the artist then it becomes more of a personal connection thing.
I get it, and it takes a while to get over, but stuff is just stuff, and it takes up so much space, I really am sick of clutter myself. It takes a while but it does go away. It used to mean so much have a release on something physical, but not so much now, though that is partly to do with my relationship with my own music, which I tend to lose interest in as soon as it is finished, now days I get my music released on vinyl and when it arrives in the post it almost goes straight in to my box of releases. Some of it I have never heard on vinyl at all unless I hear it getting played in a club...
This has actually been disturbing me recently so I was thinking about buying a bunch of 12inch vinyl frames and sticking them up in the studio and up the stairs. That feels a bit arrogant though...
Keep thinking about getting one of my decks out of storage but...... clutter.
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Stace »

How can you find the monopolisation of Beatport mildly annoying when you are so against digital releases?? :lol:

Not every track is going to be a physical release, in the same way that not every physical release is going to be to digital. I think caring more about the music than the format is the only way to go.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Stace »

Lost to the Void wrote: This has actually been disturbing me recently so I was thinking about buying a bunch of 12inch vinyl frames and sticking them up in the studio and up the stairs. That feels a bit arrogant though...
I don't see how it is any different to having pictures you have taken up in your house. It is something, I would imagine that is even more personal to you. It isn't arrogant, it is something to be proud of.

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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Mattias »

Wiu wrote:I meant no offence to those present that do make a living as an artist/DJ, good for you. My point was that in the worst case scenario and for whatever reason no fucker out there ever paid for music ever again, music would still get created. Sure you wouldn't be able to spend all your time producing, but I'm positive you would still make music wouldn't you in any free time you could? And you guys (I'd like to hope) do do it for the love of it. It's just that you're extremely talented at what you do which is why you can make a living off your output/playing live/DJing. Hell, just the help you dish out in 'The Hole' is a testament to that. Well done!!!

Myself and many others here do just do it as a hobby and although it's a term that might not go down well, I really do just do it for the love of it. The amount of money I've put into it over the years, the amount of my free time I put into it, the frustrations faced, overcome etc etc etc, I just can't think of a better way describing it.

So yah, no offence meant gents. My bad.
Mate no one was targeting you, as far as I can see so no worries. Personally I was just talking about the general consensus of the "do it for love" thing.

When you actually live music you experience just as much, or more, of madness, depression, anxiety, euphoria rather then plain love. But I reckon that all those can be molded under the whole "love" stamp anyway actually. Hehe
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Mattias »

StacieAnne wrote:Does anyone use Bandcamp for samples?? I am after some new ones and I got a decent pack from where a little while ago.
Samples as in audio samples for creating music?
I use Bandcamp for my own little sample project (check my sig). It's the best alternative for me, they offer all I need that I can't do myself; the whole shop system for a very reasonable share of the profit. :)
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Re: Bandcamp. The saviour of serious music business.

Post by Stace »

Mattias wrote:
StacieAnne wrote:Does anyone use Bandcamp for samples?? I am after some new ones and I got a decent pack from where a little while ago.
Samples as in audio samples for creating music?
I use Bandcamp for my own little sample project (check my sig). It's the best alternative for me, they offer all I need that I can't do myself; the whole shop system for a very reasonable share of the profit. :)
:lol: I just logged in to Bandcamp as I was like, that looks familiar. I grabbed your free EE Volume 1 pack on the recommendation of my friend before I started posting on here. Nice one, that is exactly what I am looking for. I'll have a listen to the others later on :D


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