Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

Thanks guys! I really appreciate all your comments. I had a question in reply to someone's comment. They said "You can make music like theo or whatever with what you have, just sample a break on a disco record!". I've never understood this. HOW do you sample things without getting in trouble? Please demystify sampling for me. How can all these rappers/electronic artist sample things without getting sued? What can you sample? What parts? How can u sample drums without the disco writer saying "those were my drums!"? Please enlighten me, i never understood that part. J-Dilla will go as far to say "i got these drums from...blah blah record". So why can't he get sued by the artist? I never understood what u can and cant sample.

Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

Comments on the 2 tracks above..
Hepta- I like what you're doing. It's not something people are ever going to play while they are cleaning the house on a sunny day :), but I know that not your goal here. Your music would fit side by side with Main or Jesu, if you've ever heard of either of them. Cool stuff.
Mattias- Great track. You obviously have a huge grasp on music making. Is it me, or do I hear a little Jeff Mills in your music, as in are you influenced by him? If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...

So what did you guys use to make your tracks?

Revaron
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Revaron »

Lance wrote:Thanks guys! I really appreciate all your comments. I had a question in reply to someone's comment. They said "You can make music like theo or whatever with what you have, just sample a break on a disco record!". I've never understood this. HOW do you sample things without getting in trouble? Please demystify sampling for me. How can all these rappers/electronic artist sample things without getting sued? What can you sample? What parts? How can u sample drums without the disco writer saying "those were my drums!"? Please enlighten me, i never understood that part. J-Dilla will go as far to say "i got these drums from...blah blah record". So why can't he get sued by the artist? I never understood what u can and cant sample.
Theo and the like sample pretty liberally, and a lot of it probably isn't cleared, or maybe these days it is now that they are quite big, but when they were starting out I doubt they cleared many samples. Thing is, with guys like Theo and KDJ, they don't just blatantly steal big chunks out of songs and call it their own, they just take little snippets of stuff and twist it up so its not always obvious where it comes from. It's not so much the breaks they use, that's more the HipHop side of things, but they take little bits of basslines or guitar or keys riffs, bits of vocal, run them through all sorts processing and effects tricks, and then you've got something that even the person who played the original part might not recognise on first listen. Also, they are HARDCORE crate diggers, that's what makes them such great DJs, they find stuff that most people never heard in the first place and everyone else has forgotten about, probably even the band who cut it, but has a great bassline or whatever. If you want to have a go at this, fuck it, sample whatever the hell you want, that's what everyone else does. If you start making serious money off it, then maybe worry about getting permission, but until then don't even think about it, just do what you want.

So if I was you I'd work out what your Boss is capable of, just spend a lot of time playing with it and trying different stuff with it, get a manual for it if you don't have one, it'll be online somewhere, and read it and if you don't understand something it's talking about, try it out and learn it. If you then decide you need something better, you'll have a good idea of what exactly it is that you want the new thing to do, you'll know what shortcomings of the Boss you need to overcome. In terms of samplers, things to check out are the Akai MPC range, the Korg Electribe samplers (the new ones are ace, but I personally think the ESX-1 is the daddy), and if you want to try something out on a budget there is the Volca Sampler, but be warned the sample memory is tiny, or the Novation Circuit which is pretty cheap to buy new and just added an update that lets you add samples, but never played with one so can't really say if its any good or not. As far as drum machines go, the ER-1 is a lot of fun and you can do some cool stuff with it, like try running your sampler into the audio in on the ER-1 and then chopping it up and whacking the delay on it, then throwing a big kick on it - loads of fun. And the Microkorg is a respectable synthesizer, has a good sound to it and there is the possibility to edit it on the computer.

As far as sampling goes, check this out:

A stone cold techno classic

youtu.be/XV3f18GXbEs

And the tune that was sampled to make it

youtu.be/Xvn2y4ynhI4

Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

Thanks Revaron! And of course, you put a song here that I'm very familiar with-Vroon's Flash! I never knew it was borrowed from P-Funk. So what did he do to make it his song? That's what I can't figure out in regards to sampling. Do they sample full lines and then just put effects on them? Or do they sample parts and play it out of sequence or speed it up? I'm just lost on the whole thing. To be sure, I listed Theo and Moodymann off the top of my head. I love tons of shit e.g. Basic Channel, Rhythm and Sound, Carl Craig, Jeff Mills, Rob Hood, UR, Trax records shit, Deep house, Warp, Main, Autechre, Drexciya, and on and on and on.. I'm not into trance or dubstep, aside from that, I love all music. I wish I could watch somebody make a track, especially one that I'm familiar with or that I like, and then, maybe then, I'd be able to demystify this whole thing and get into music making. :)

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lost to the Void »

Ok, so first and foremost, you will need monitors. This is all about sound and if you can`t hear properly, it all falls down.
So you need to work out your budget for monitors. and that budget depends on how serious you are.
If it`s just for fun, then get some low end monitors.
If you plan on releasing, then you want something mid-level to be able to get your sound to a decent quality.
If you plan on doing this more seriously and see it as a long term serious hobby, or you really want to dive in and try to regularly release, play out etc, then you want some serious monitors.
good monitors should last you a lifetime.
Budget-wise you are looking at £500 to £4000

After that, if you wanna go hardware route, then you will need a mixer, to be able to put your music together properly.
There really aren`t any "one box does all" hardware solutions any more, those days are over, well they were never really there for anything serious.
The closest thing to a 1 box does all, is Elektron stuff where, realistically, you need 2 boxes, which price wise will set you back between £1400 and around £2000, then the combination choice is down to you. Elektron do the mother of all sampler sequencers, with the Octatrack, which is an insane bit of kit, then they do 2 drum machines, The Machine Drum and the Analog Rytm, and then 2 synths, Monomachine and Analog 4.
A combination of either a drum machine/sampler, and synth machine would be a pretty good "everything in one box" solution, to a good level of quality.

You will still need something to record (and possibly edit and mix) on to, either a computer, or digital recorder.

Software is a bit easier, a decent Pc/Laptop with soundcard, Ableton and controller(s) opens up an impossibly unlimited world of sound creation.
Budget wise is own to how much you want to sink in to it, there are tons of free options that will give professional results.

I would start with the software route, because you can get started pretty much straight away, get your mixing chops sorted, and then in time break out in to the hardware world, if you want, and add bits at a time.
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Mattias
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Mattias »

Lance wrote: Mattias- Great track. You obviously have a huge grasp on music making. Is it me, or do I hear a little Jeff Mills in your music, as in are you influenced by him? If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
Why thank you sir. Surely there is no way to miss Mr Mills! I'm not really inspired by Mills per se, but all impressions makes it down the subconscious :)
Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
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Contention / 005

borg
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by borg »

Lance wrote:Jeff Mills... If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
:lol:

that Voorn track, that's just blatant stealing imo.
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1nfinitezer0
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by 1nfinitezer0 »

Mattias wrote:Screw special gear, go with great monitors and listening environment.
Truth. I'm sure most of us here will be able to agree that being able to hear accurately what you're doing has some of the biggest effect on the quality of the music being produced.

Headphones are one of the more cost-effective ways to get accurate sound for money invested.

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by The_G »

Honestly I would advise you start with a decent set of monitoring headphones ($100-200), a basic new laptop ($350-500)*, a DAW ($50-800) and a simple MIDI interface for your hardware ($50-150).

Total: $550 - $1650

*I prefer Mac over PC, but that adds cost upfront ($1000).

You might also want to consider Propellerhead Reason as a DAW. It lacks the flexibility of Ableton Live or Logic, but it's basically a software version of "everything-in-a-box," and since version 7 has a muuuuch better audio engine, allows you to record audio (say from a guitar), use hardware via MIDI and so forth. Still a niche product and very idiosyncratic, but the days when it was a just glorified groove box are over. Plus it mimics hardware, so it can be good if you are trying to do "throwback techno." And if you end up using another DAW later on, you can hook them together via ReWire.

A lot of other beginning producers like FL Studio, though I hate it. But one neat thing is that all future upgrades are free. So you just have to buy it once, whereas with the others you have to periodically pay for upgrades.

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by terryfalafel »

Lance wrote: If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
Image

:lol:

Planar
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Planar »

Lance wrote:I'm a beginner and don't know much about electronic music making. I'm a huge fan of it and am looking to make Detroit Techno/Chicago house, but I can see me wanting to venture off and just make whatever music I feel like making at the time. I know nothing about programs, sequencers, synths, etc. I'd love to hear what some good things are to buy that are cheap/affordable. All I have so far is a Boss 303 sampler, A Korg Er-1 and a Korg-Micorkorg. Would it be smart to trade or sell any of these for something more versatile? What can you suggest that I buy? I have a desktop computer, but it's pretty slow and old, so maybe hardware is the better choice? Any help would be appreciated!
I suggest before taking on anyones advice here that you utilise what you already have for a bit and see if you actually enjoy producing music. You can use both your hardware and old computer to make some simple tracks. They will likley sound shit, but it'll give you an idea of the production process, what extra's you might need (monitoring is essential) and an idea of the long road it is to getting good results. A few free sample packs and something like Reaper and you're away with no further investment.

It can be an expensive hobby, so best to be sure first.
terryfalafel wrote:
Lance wrote: If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
:lol:
Play nice chaps. Everyone has to start somewhere.

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Alume »

Lets take a step back and see what you think things through.
Imo you dont need any synth as i think starting out all hardware is a specific aproach wich dries out a lot of music makers due to the result/effort balance. A daw will let you fuck around and get something that sound like music without bothering about routing, midi syncing, recording, power, space etc etc.

Guys correct me if im wrong but you need is a decent computer to start with and a decent set of monitors(400-500 euro models at least), a soundcard and a demo of any daw(ableton is Nice).

This is something you could consider if your 100% sure of getting into music. If you have your doubts you can always get a decent set of headphones(which will always be of use) and a demo om your probably new pc( which you'll always use).

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Alume »

Just read planars comment. He beat me to it.

Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

terryfalafel wrote:
Lance wrote: If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
Image

:lol:
I was trying not to assume everybody knows who Jeff Mils is, because many don't. Come to the states here and ask around.. Nobody gives a shit about techno music here...

Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

Play nice chaps. Everyone has to start somewhere.[/quote]

He wasn't downgrading my request about music production info-read his quote. He was inferring "are u serious to assume somebody wouldn't know who Jeff Mills is?"

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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by borg »

Planar wrote:Play nice chaps. Everyone has to start somewhere.
well, apparantely I made it to the rank of skaghead, so...
(there was no harm intended, just sounded funny on a techno forum)
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Planar
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Planar »

Lance wrote:He wasn't downgrading my request about music production info-read his quote. He was inferring "are u serious to assume somebody wouldn't know who Jeff Mills is?"
I know exactly what he (and that rascal Borg) was inferring. You can safely assume people on here know who Jeff Mills is, Lance, this is a very knowledgable forum on all thing techno and dance music.

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terryfalafel
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by terryfalafel »

Lance wrote: I was trying not to assume everybody knows who Jeff Mils is, because many don't. Come to the states here and ask around.. Nobody gives a shit about techno music here...
Don't take offence man :-)

Most people on here will know Jeff Mills - in fact he could be the first name a lot of people would mention if you asked them for a household techno name.

To answer your question, I would not invest more money in hardware at this stage.

I'd get a PC or laptop that can run a DAW - Ableton's popular here but I'm a Cubase user myself. I will get flack for this on here, but there are lots of ways to try before you buy. If you become a long term user, be sure to buy. Or get Reaper - it's a professional level DAW and costs next to nothing.

I'd agree with monitors and a soundcard. As others have said, it depends on your budget but you can get stuff for fairly little money which will get you going and enable you to produce excellent results if you stick with it. If, in 12 months, you're still producing stuff, gaining experience and happy with what you're making and you want to carry on you'll probably want to upgrade. But if you lose interest, you will not have lost out if you sell the gear second hand. But the important thing is working out whether you have an affinity for making music and most importantly, whether or not you take pleasure in it.

Getting into hardware is a treat when you've got some experience under your belt. It's tactile, it's fun - it definitely enables a different way of working to sitting at a DAW and making music. But it's also a money pit and if you decide it's not for you, the potential to waste money is much greater. You've got enough equipment already to be able to twist some knobs by the sound of it ;-)

I hope this helps.

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terryfalafel
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by terryfalafel »

Planar wrote:
terryfalafel wrote:
Lance wrote: If you don't know who he is, you should check him out...
:lol:
Play nice chaps. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I always play nice. Mild joshing never hurt anyone, and on Subsekt you're lucky if your joshing is mild ;-)

Lance
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Re: Any help with music production would be appreciated..

Post by Lance »

Got ya. Over here in the states, nobody cares much about the music made here. I was just being polite and didn't want to be presumptuous and think that I'm name dropping artists assuming that everyone should know who these are, if in fact, they didn't. Around by me, almost all electronic artists go unnoticed. You say Rob Hood, Deepchord, Mike Huckaby, Jeff Mills, Other people's place, Shake, Omar S, Kyle Hall, etc(all huge, huge artists in the techno/house field) and people have no idea who they are, despite the MASSIVE attn. that they get overseas. Keep the comments coming, and feel free to dumb them down for me-I didn't even know what a DAW was until I looked it up :)


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