90's techno and house drum processing

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
User avatar
Barfunkel
Smalahove
Posts: 2329
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am
90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Barfunkel »

One thing I love about the 90's tracks, is the way the drums sound. They often have chunk, weight and character (as opposed to 80''s house/techno tracks which often sound more like standard drum machines with no processing, or the modern stuff which sound different again). Many 90's tracks, from various labels and artists have this kind of uniform sound to the drums, even if they are sometimes drum machines, sometimes samples of them, sometimes samples of real drums. You rarely hear that in modern tracks, even in the retro tracks.

Any insight into what techniques they used back then, what causes that chunkiness? Especially techniques that don't involve buying an E-mu SP1200 (which gets those drums with no effort, but they can't ALL have been using them back then) or other really expensive vintage gear. The spirit of the 90's was often about finding and misusing neglected, cheap gear, not spend thousands in collector's items.

Overdriving Mackie (the older CR-series, newer models sound like shit when overdriving) mixers was of course one very common technique, that I already know, but I think there's more to the sound than simply turning the gain to 11, as sometimes the drums don't sound that distorted but still have that 90's sound to them.

As that chunkiness I so much love often extends to the other sounds too, how much did common 90's mastering techniques affect the overall sound?

Any insight into the matter?
"I don't shower every day, but when I do, I do it after listening to some Barfunkel" - Anonymous

http://soundcloud.com/user4904810
http://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/

User avatar
davidblackwing
GET A FUCKING AVATAR!!
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:05 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by davidblackwing »

Tape recorders. Try Wave bundle. I think that sound is result of tape driven vintage compressed and eqed. Eq, compressor, tape saturation with character. I found that Waves products are good emulations of this matter. Or just resample drums from your favorite records. they did it in the 90s too. multi-dynamic and Eq can help you sculpt drums out of the other sounds. I usually build drums with synths myself but sometimes I just want the punch of the kick I heard in the record so I take that and my own low end and click. Ofc with proper processing.

User avatar
WOLF!
Grand
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:05 pm
Location: Belgium, Gent
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by WOLF! »

Good idea this topic.
I feel the same about 90's techno and suspect the high amount of hardware and people who knew what they're doing making the difference.

dubdub
Asphyxiwank
Posts: 2454
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by dubdub »

In addition to what has already been said.
I think it's a combination of overdrive, tape, vintage samplers, lack of parametric EQs and generally more crude mastering/processing. And in general this kind naivity rounding it all up, when people today use these techniques, they do it because they want that exact sound, which I think ends up sounding different than people trying their best to sound clean but just not getting any better.

But also, in general, I think people had a different relationship to drums, in a way some kind of dark art that has been lost. Back then people generally had one sampler with a few samples or 1-2 drum maschines and not a lot of synths either. And this was still the age where people wanted shit as banging as possible. So because of the lack of options in both the drum and synth department, they had to make the most out of that 909. I don't wanna know how much time Hood and Mills spent on that thing ever day in the early 909s.
Even the drum&bass guys like Photek and Source Direct that didn't just jam out their drums, instead they spent one billion hours on pain-in-the-ass tracker software. Who the fuck would do that today? I think that's why Burial's drums did stand out so much in the 2000s, even though he used a computer like everyone else, that absolutely insane dedication to drums.

User avatar
Barfunkel
Smalahove
Posts: 2329
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Barfunkel »

Speaking of Photek, this has like the best drum programming I've ever heard, regardless of genre. Perfect sounds, perfect rhythms, perfect arrangement. Probably took a while to do in that era!

youtu.be/9qJKxaWb0_A
"I don't shower every day, but when I do, I do it after listening to some Barfunkel" - Anonymous

http://soundcloud.com/user4904810
http://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/

User avatar
Mattias
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Mattias »

Two big parts of the secret was this;

Less super low bass and less super sharp highs, a nice well defined punchy low mid is where it's at.

No side-chain pumping.
Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/fridell
Sample packs: http://mfsamples.bandcamp.com

Contention / 005

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Lost to the Void »

A lot of the sound of jungle and drum and bass can be put down to porky`s mastering, and the influence he had on the sound through his methods.

He cut records with a high pass much higher than you would imagine and use EQ shift to move the emphasis up, so even though cuts were as high as 40hz, there was pre-emphasis at the cut, and then a dip/cut, about half an octave above this.
This led to that really punchy low end that characterised a lot of dance music records, jungle and drum and bass in particular.

Combine that with his love of Feedback Compression, namely the infamous Fairchild, which was a very musical form of compression, emphasising the groove, and you got very lively, punchy cuts.

You still hear that on records a lot actually. Porky was old school, but highly influential in dance music mastering. All the places like the Exchange etc, they followed what porky started.

I wouldn`t say tape was that much of a contribution actually, I use reel to reel occasionally and it doesn`t really add punch so much as pull back transients, so it`s more useful with overly sharp hi fidelity production of today, so soften it down.

The rest was down to economic use of EQ, which is something I always advocate. They didn`t have access to a billion bands per channel of EQ back then, so they weren`t relying on EQ to fit shit together, they were choosing the right sounds in the right place, so the mixes fitted together naturally and needed less EQ work.

Slamming busses through compressors was common too, especially the Jungle and drum and bass guys, you can hear a lot of 1176 on old dance music, lots of snap but with backed off attack, so you get both impact and pump.

Also, lots of resampling to free up resources led to a homogenisation of sound within a track.

Good production technique, essentially.
These days it would just mean making better musical choices of sound, grouping and bussing a lot more, keeping the sounds in one tune down to a minimal variety of instruments (multi tracking was very very common, one or two synths doing all the work, tracked via 8 or 16 track reel to reel making several passes). For those who couldn`t afford multitracking then resampling. So resampling parts with a characterful sampler (in or out the box, it`s all digital).
And then leaving a shit load of the work up to the mastering engineer, or in some cases, going to a studio and working with an engineer to do the mix down prior to mastering.

It would be best to post up some examples because a lot of 90`s stuff sounds like utter gash.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
davidblackwing
GET A FUCKING AVATAR!!
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:05 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by davidblackwing »

Mattias wrote:Two big parts of the secret was this;

Less super low bass and less super sharp highs, a nice well defined punchy low mid is where it's at.

No side-chain pumping.
Yeah makes sense.. spectrum was limited back. now added with vintage gear and tape recorder re-sampling techs. We got plenty of info to try that 90s sound.

As said wave EQ plugins can do the trick.

Also,

http://sonimus.com/products/soneq/ this one is pleasant, personally ofc. :lol:

User avatar
Mattias
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Mattias »

Yes I actually prefer the Soneq sound over any of the Waves takes on "analog" sound personally!
Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/fridell
Sample packs: http://mfsamples.bandcamp.com

Contention / 005

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Lost to the Void »

Waves suck ass.
Dates and overrated.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
Wiu
Slowy J
Posts: 1316
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: Horsham, UK
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Wiu »

Dafuq does 'homogenisation' mean? I need a dictionary.
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

User avatar
Wiu
Slowy J
Posts: 1316
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm
Location: Horsham, UK
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Wiu »

To keep it simple. Use shitty old drum machines, sample tribal loops/breaks and run through a nasty old sampler. Then throw a 909 kick over it all. Drive the mixer a little and then send to a decent mastering chap to sort out any resulting nastiness.










Maybe.....
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

User avatar
Barfunkel
Smalahove
Posts: 2329
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Barfunkel »

Lost to the Void wrote:
It would be best to post up some examples because a lot of 90`s stuff sounds like utter gash.
Here's a few from the top of my head:

This one is actually from 2005 (so could be even fully ITB), but it has that chunky sound to the drums. No drum machine I've tried sounds like that straight out of the outputs, so there's something funky in the processing. Doesn't sound like just mixer overdrive either, at least no mixer I ever tried sounds like that.

youtu.be/pw5j9VOqy9A


This, classic Dance Mania track. 909 action through some kind of distortion, but at least I have no idea how to make my former TR-8 sound like that.

youtu.be/RHaQ7jemFHs


And some Carl Craig. Again, the drums have the kind of presence drum machines don't produce in their raw state.

youtu.be/v8l7aRm7QEQ
"I don't shower every day, but when I do, I do it after listening to some Barfunkel" - Anonymous

http://soundcloud.com/user4904810
http://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/

User avatar
Mattias
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Mattias »

There is no secret really. It's all pretty basic but takes time to master.

- It's all about first balancing all the sounds (not only the drums) together.
- Drive the drums, saturate them, distort them
/ Compress pre or post EQ or saturation, depending what flavor is needed /
- Gentle EQ and adjust balance accordingly
- Never listen in "solo" but always in full context
Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/fridell
Sample packs: http://mfsamples.bandcamp.com

Contention / 005

User avatar
Hades
Shit Eater
Posts: 9795
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Hades »

Mattias wrote:There is no secret really. It's all pretty basic but takes time to master.

- It's all about first balancing all the sounds (not only the drums) together.
- Drive the drums, saturate them, distort them
/ Compress pre or post EQ or saturation, depending what flavor is needed /
- Gentle EQ and adjust balance accordingly
- Never listen in "solo" but always in full context

that's too much work Mattias ! :lol:
Sin cambios no hay mariposa


User avatar
Mono-xID
Uumfääng
Posts: 3380
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:20 pm
Location: Berlin
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Mono-xID »

i get some serious 90's drum vibe when writing a 909 pattern, EQ that shit an run everything through FX Pansions Strobe Amp. Easy but boring.
http://soundcloud.com/monoxid

Behringer = ARTS label of synths

User avatar
Markus Wolf
reverse genius
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:38 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Markus Wolf »

Old Akai samplers. They all used them at some point in their productions. And they are cheaper than the sp 1200 way way cheaper. Seriously you want the vibe use the same equipment. Sample drums from records.

User avatar
Markus Wolf
reverse genius
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:38 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Markus Wolf »

Tobias and Shadow Dancer are two people that use samplers for their drum's.

User avatar
Barfunkel
Smalahove
Posts: 2329
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Barfunkel »

I actually used to own an Akai S950. Regret selling it a bit (as it does sound lovely), but they're quite expensive these days too. Last time I checked, someone asked 700 euros for one on ebay.
"I don't shower every day, but when I do, I do it after listening to some Barfunkel" - Anonymous

http://soundcloud.com/user4904810
http://www.mixcloud.com/Barfunkel/

User avatar
Markus Wolf
reverse genius
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:38 pm
Re: 90's techno and house drum processing

Post by Markus Wolf »

Yeah thats allot!! But keep youre eye's open maybe you will find one for a good price.


Post Reply