Making Noise in the box - Ideas

[Hyle]

Good evening people,
these days, I was wandering... I make computer-based electronic music from a year, a year and a half (before that I played in several bands), so I still am puzzled a little bit about some working methods.

I was really curious to know and talk about the techniques you use (if someone like this kind of thing, you know) to produce and create proper Noise and how do you put it in your tracks.
I find myself having some troubles because when I use distortion plugins and "digital" stuff in my Daw, I find the results weak and too harmless. When I talk about Noise, I talk about biiiig walls of sound that make you feel pain or at least uncomfortable... I can't get the same ear-ripping results that I used to obtain while when I was bustling about with mics, guitars, amps, pedals. With that digital hint, I can't feel it "physically", if you know what I mean... It's difficult to explain.
I don't know, maybe it's just ear bias.

I can rearrange some stuff like a guitar, amp, maybe a matrix mixer, etc in a "noisy" analog setup or I can buy myself a MS20 mini and record them... But nowadays I vastly prefer to work completely In the Box, so if you have any tip you're my friends.

I was talking about these kind of big layers of noise:

youtu.be/0ZorWBMB1Tk

youtu.be/bYsuUMuXLGo

[Lost to the Void]

You need to use decent distortion plugins, there is a thread where i link all the best amp modellers, distortion units, fuzz units, saturators and resonant ring mods.

Use the search function for distortion, amp modeller, fuzz


As a starter, get yourself positive grid BIAS and BIAS FX. The hands down best amp modelling there is.

[Ploy]

We used to complain about noise in recordings.
I can't get rid of that fucking hiss!!!

Now people are struggling to make things sound like shit... sort of ironic.

[Lost to the Void]

I`ve had clients complain when I have removed noise and hiss in mastering.

[Hyle]

We used to complain about noise in recordings.
I can't get rid of that fucking hiss!!!

Now people are struggling to make things sound like shit... sort of ironic.

What? I don't get you. "Now"? Noise music exists for at least 30/40 years, and if we consider the classical avant-gardes and the Futurists it existed for a century.

[Ploy]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

[Hyle]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

Man, I was learning so much reading the old posts and found a lot of interesting and technically useful things using the search string. I genuinely thought that this was a good forum... Then I have to read these things.

Whatever... Thanks for giving your universal definition of "music" to the entire humanity.

[Lost to the Void]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

Man, I was learning so much reading the old posts and found a lot of interesting and technically useful things using the search string. I genuinely thought that this was a good forum... Then I have to read these things.

Whatever... Thanks for giving your universal definition of "music" to the entire humanity.

Don`t worry about that, Noise freaks a lot of people out. Same as abstract art.

Have you tried setting up a feedback loop in ableton yet? It`s pretty easy and if you use good plugs you can get some great, but controllable, zero input stuff.
I do it quiet a lot, I have a noise rig I use in my live PA sometimes, typical setup, lots of pedals, some I built myself (my murder box is quite well known now), a quadrafuzz modded for stereo multiband, and a matrix mixer, which is the most fun ever. You can send anything in to anything so you can have mental cross modulation/feedback loops going all over the shop.
Would be great to be able to set up a software matrix mixer.

Have you heard of Sickness?

He`s a no input guy but he really is a master, very tight control over the chaos, lots of pacing, lots of different texture, call and response, really knows his kit, not so much of a punch it in and see type of guy. Brutal sound, it`s terrifying live on a big rig.

youtu.be/e_44ZV_LGps

[dubdub]

Bitcrushing the shit out of something tends to get pretty wild. I guess part of the problem is that you can't redline a DAW like you can an analogue mixer, maybe try some kind of mixing console plugin emulation.

[Hyle]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

Man, I was learning so much reading the old posts and found a lot of interesting and technically useful things using the search string. I genuinely thought that this was a good forum... Then I have to read these things.

Whatever... Thanks for giving your universal definition of "music" to the entire humanity.

Don`t worry about that, Noise freaks a lot of people out. Same as abstract art.

Have you tried setting up a feedback loop in ableton yet? It`s pretty easy and if you use good plugs you can get some great, but controllable, zero input stuff.
I do it quiet a lot, I have a noise rig I use in my live PA sometimes, typical setup, lots of pedals, some I built myself (my murder box is quite well known now), a quadrafuzz modded for stereo multiband, and a matrix mixer, which is the most fun ever. You can send anything in to anything so you can have mental cross modulation/feedback loops going all over the shop.
Would be great to be able to set up a software matrix mixer.

Have you heard of Sickness?

He`s a no input guy but he really is a master, very tight control over the chaos, lots of pacing, lots of different texture, call and response, really knows his kit, not so much of a punch it in and see type of guy. Brutal sound, it`s terrifying live on a big rig.

youtu.be/e_44ZV_LGps

I never tried, actually. I guess you have to use a send track and a delay, right?

As I said in the first post, I know that matrix mixer thing. I never had one - I played in more punk/rock oriented, guitar-bass-drums based, noise bands - but it's one of the noise community's favourite tricks. I knew some guys that made "pure" noise music (like Sickness, the guy you recommended me, thanks for the tip! It seems my cup of tea) and fucked around with mics, theremins, diy oscillators, TONS of cheap effects, and that kind of shit. Noise musicians are fuckin' nuts.

But, again, when I produce, I prefer to stick to my mouse-screen-Push worflow and don't want to be "distracted" by cables, hardware, etc. I know the "analog" techniques to make some proper noise but I would prefer not to get back using my old electric guitar and leaving it in the closet for this reason.
First of all, I'll try to upgrade my distortion and amp modelling plugins. I found your old threads, thanks (I couldn't find the one about the resonant ring modulators though). If you say it is doable making some proper ear-bleeding Noise all in the box, and you seems to know the topic very well, I'll work it out somehow.

[Hyle]

Bitcrushing the shit out of something tends to get pretty wild. I guess part of the problem is that you can't redline a DAW like you can an analogue mixer, maybe try some kind of mixing console plugin emulation.

Actually, I was thinking buying me this:

http://www.sonalksis.com/digital_grimebox.htm

I like their filter a lot and it's cheap. Do you recommend it?

[Hedges]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

I actually quite like the idea of some poor tortured soul fresh out of art school who, feeling constrained by the restrictive conventions of all that he has been taught, finds his only creative output in raw, unbridled noise.

Either way, you sound like a wanker.

[Resin]

Bitcrushing the shit out of something tends to get pretty wild. I guess part of the problem is that you can't redline a DAW like you can an analogue mixer, maybe try some kind of mixing console plugin emulation.

Actually, I was thinking buying me this:

http://www.sonalksis.com/digital_grimebox.htm

I like their filter a lot and it's cheap. Do you recommend it?

Considering the guy who programmed this and the other creative elements plugins, left Sonalksis a long time ago (he’s running DMG now), do they even keep them up to date?
My favourite bit crusher is the one from D16 (same goes for distortion).
I’d also recommend looking into NI’s Reaktor if you're searching for some feedback fun (and much much more).

[PixelKind]

Reaktor or Max4Live are probably the way to go here. I dont know any plugins to recommend but it shouldnt be so hard to just make your own. And keeping the DIY spirit of noise music

[Lost to the Void]

I never tried, actually. I guess you have to use a send track and a delay, right?

As I said in the first post, I know that matrix mixer thing. I never had one - I played in more punk/rock oriented, guitar-bass-drums based, noise bands - but it's one of the noise community's favourite tricks. I knew some guys that made "pure" noise music (like Sickness, the guy you recommended me, thanks for the tip! It seems my cup of tea) and fucked around with mics, theremins, diy oscillators, TONS of cheap effects, and that kind of shit. Noise musicians are fuckin' nuts.

But, again, when I produce, I prefer to stick to my mouse-screen-Push worflow and don't want to be "distracted" by cables, hardware, etc. I know the "analog" techniques to make some proper noise but I would prefer not to get back using my old electric guitar and leaving it in the closet for this reason.
First of all, I'll try to upgrade my distortion and amp modelling plugins. I found your old threads, thanks (I couldn't find the one about the resonant ring modulators though). If you say it is doable making some proper ear-bleeding Noise all in the box, and you seems to know the topic very well, I'll work it out somehow.

Just go to a return channel in ableton, right click on a send dial within the return channel click enable send, voila. Now you can use that send dial to send the return signal back to itself.
Instant feedback loop. Wack a limiter in there and then any fx you like.

[Ploy]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

Man, I was learning so much reading the old posts and found a lot of interesting and technically useful things using the search string. I genuinely thought that this was a good forum... Then I have to read these things.

Whatever... Thanks for giving your universal definition of "music" to the entire humanity.

Oh I'm sorry did I ruin your Subsekt experience? What did you expect? This is a techno forum not a noise forum. I'll tell you what tho... You post a chart of either of these "songs" and I will believe its music. Until then I might as well be listening to static coming from the AM dial.

[Ploy]

Either way, you sound like a wanker.

That's pretty funny coming from a guy who rides the bus... Fucking twat!

[msl]

Whatever people say nothing beats analog distortion. It sounds 'alive' in ways plugins never do, cause it is. Just get some nice proper analog distortion and delay pedals feed stuff into them and sample/record them.


.

[Hyle]

This isn't music. Its just shit. This is what happens when you stay in art school too long and then you decide to start a band.

Man, I was learning so much reading the old posts and found a lot of interesting and technically useful things using the search string. I genuinely thought that this was a good forum... Then I have to read these things.

Whatever... Thanks for giving your universal definition of "music" to the entire humanity.

Oh I'm sorry did I ruin your Subsekt experience? What did you expect? This is a techno forum not a noise forum. I'll tell you what tho... You post a chart of either of these "songs" and I will believe its music. Until then I might as well be listening to static coming from the AM dial.

Shapednoise has one of the most established techno labels in the last few years. You're pretty ignorant about the music you like, too. And, as well, Prurient published a lot of techno stuff under his Vatican Shadow alias, and the Regis remix of one of his tracks is just a modern classic.
I like techno and electronic dance/rave music more than noise music (otherwise I'd be on a noise forum) but I like when there's some bastardisation between different genres.

Maybe you have to sample that AM static and use them in your tracks, maybe they'll get more interesting.
When someone starts to tell "this is music" and "this is NOT music", it's just stupidity, not a matter of personal tastes.

[Hyle]

Whatever people say nothing beats analog distortion. It sounds 'alive' in ways plugins never do, cause it is. Just get some nice proper analog distortion and delay pedals feed stuff into them and sample/record them.


.

As I said in my first post, I already possess that kind of stuff. But using my old guitar, amp, mics and pedals is very uncomfortable to me for space and workflow reasons. I'd prefer to avoid this solution.
I'll get myself some decent plugins and give the digital world a try at least.

Actually, I also considered the hardware vs software debate very stupid. But this - the noise and distortion topic - is the first thing that made me have some doubts.