Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

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kodebreakerpaul
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Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by kodebreakerpaul »

I though that I'd share this with you for those of you that haven't seen it. It's a documentary that I first saw on Sky some time ago and it's now available on youtube. Whilst the whole of the documentary is worth watching I'd like to draw your attention to the part 1 and at about 13 minutes on in the clip when he starts to talk about his synthesisers and how the circuitry works.

In particular he talks about how the sounds are made and how some musicians can feel what the circuits do and make contact with the circuit board as he eloquently puts it. He talks about the spirituality of the experience and the connections that are possible which I find are very interesting. I also enjoy the part just afterwards around 17 minutes when he talks about the connection to nature by growing plants and harnessing that natural energy.

Now I'm a bit Moog fan so my views might be biased, that said, I do believe that he's onto something and that he may well have a point that it's possible to connect to the circuit board in a way that he describes when producing music.

Question is - what do you other people think? Does he have a point or do you think otherwise? I'd certainly be interested in hearing your views.

Note - you may fine a better link to this in youtube with all four parts however this was the only link that would work for me.

youtu.be/Us-HXqy5GXQ

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by SigEnt »

Cheers for posting, interesting stuff. Always nice to hear anyone passionate about their craft I think.

The point bob makes about connection to the circuits although interesting doesn't really resonate with me. I think anyone can get caught up "in the zone" and feel an interaction with whatever is around them at that point in time, It may be walking the dog in the woods or restoring a 60 year old Mosaic floor in your house, you can always feel a connection if your that way inclined.

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Lost to the Void »

Barmy old coot. Makes great synths though.

I connect with my guitars on a spiritual level man, through the vibrations of the strings.
They like, resonate with my soul vibration.
I enhance the effect by wearing a pyramid hat and wearing quartz crystal necklaces man,
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Revaron »

This looks good, will put this on in a bit, especially after reading the few comments that have followed, sounds very interesting!

My dad hung out with Bob on a number of occasions back in the tail end of the 60s/early 70s, apparently he was quite a dude, very interesting and full of ideas so I'm told, and also he could apparently drink most people, or my dad at least, under the table. No real relevance here, haha, sorry, but I get him to tell me the Bob Moog story at least once a year so might as well share it in brief.

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:Barmy old coot. Makes great synths though.

I connect with my guitars on a spiritual level man, through the vibrations of the strings.
They like, resonate with my soul vibration.
I enhance the effect by wearing a pyramid hat and wearing quartz crystal necklaces man,
you forgot the peanut butter and the broom.
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by kodebreakerpaul »

Revaron wrote:
My dad hung out with Bob on a number of occasions back in the tail end of the 60s/early 70s, apparently he was quite a dude, very interesting and full of ideas so I'm told, and also he could apparently drink most people, or my dad at least, under the table. No real relevance here, haha, sorry, but I get him to tell me the Bob Moog story at least once a year so might as well share it in brief.
I can imagine that Bob would probably have been a bit of a bohemian in spirit so yeah I can see that he could have held his own with other people. He's certainly a figure I would have loved to have met and I'm sure there are some great stories to be heard from those that knew him

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Hades »

SigEnt wrote:Cheers for posting, interesting stuff. Always nice to hear anyone passionate about their craft I think.

The point bob makes about connection to the circuits although interesting doesn't really resonate with me. I think anyone can get caught up "in the zone" and feel an interaction with whatever is around them at that point in time, It may be walking the dog in the woods or restoring a 60 year old Mosaic floor in your house, you can always feel a connection if your that way inclined.

I think I saw this one a while ago, but I'm not sure any more.
Almost through watching part 1 now.

I don't know about the whole connection process.
I do believe that guys like Bob connect to what they're building a whole lot more than say people at Yamaha for example.
And I also believe you can connect to certain instruments a lot more than to others.
If he says he believes certain musicians can really connect to what's going on inside the instrument,
then isn't he talking about the same thing ?
I mean, if you play this one synth enough times, and it's pretty limited in it's synthesis method, like a Moog is,
then yeah, why wouldn't you be able to predict very well what's going to happen when you do this or that ?
so the "getting in the zone" part will come far more natural than with another synth.

I recently saw this Legowelt video where he said though he knows shit about what theoretically happens in FM synthesis,
he's pretty good at predicting what's gonna happen to a sound when he programs an FM synth,
just because he used to spend so many hours programming one because it was his 1st synth ages ago.
If someone can honestly say he connects with something as complicated as FM synthesis,
then yeah, I can definitely understand people saying they connect with a Moog.

I certainly feel a lot more "connected" to some of my synths than to others.
And I'll probably get better stuff out of those than out of others,
but yeah, you can make music with almost any synth, even any sound source.
So I guess we shouldn't forget that as well, especially with some of the snobbery the Moog brand has always had.
(not from Bob, but from the synth community)

It's just an instrument, no doubt one of the better designed ones though.
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Revaron »

Hades wrote:I recently saw this Legowelt video where he said though he knows shit about what theoretically happens in FM synthesis,
he's pretty good at predicting what's gonna happen to a sound when he programs an FM synth,
just because he used to spend so many hours programming one because it was his 1st synth ages ago.
If someone can honestly say he connects with something as complicated as FM synthesis,
then yeah, I can definitely understand people saying they connect with a Moog.
I can totally understand this. I don't really understand the theory behind FM, but for me it has turned out to be a very simple method of synthesis in practice. If I can think of a sound, I can come up with some approximation of it pretty quickly on my TX81z (using a computer editor). When I got it, I took a week off work to learn how to program it - after a day I had worked out the basics, after 3 days I was properly off, and by the end of the week I had completely filled the preset bank with some dead cool patches with some to spare. But so many people complain about the complexity of FM synthesis. After my experience I assumed it was just because they hadn't given it a proper go, or were trying to use the interface on a Yamaha synth. But maybe my brain is just wired in such a way that FM is obvious? I dunno. I'm excited about the Volca FM though. Still haven't watched this video though, will put it on.

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Hades »

Revaron wrote: But so many people complain about the complexity of FM synthesis. After my experience I assumed it was just because they hadn't given it a proper go, or were trying to use the interface on a Yamaha synth. But maybe my brain is just wired in such a way that FM is obvious? I dunno. I'm excited about the Volca FM though. Still haven't watched this video though, will put it on.
I think it's both laziness and the shitty Yamaha interface (if we're talking about a HW FM synth).
if it's the SW only, then it's just laziness. :D
I bought myself a Kawai K5000r, and later the macro controller programmer for it, maybe 12 years ago,
in a time I could barely make decent patches from scratch, let alone make patches with somethng as complicated as additive synthesis.
I knew the theory behind it, but no way that meant I really knew what was going to happen to the sound except if I changed the most basic parts of the sound... :D
But yeah, having the fact that the Kawai let's you group harmonics,
and the controller giving you at least the 16 most important parameters at the touch of a fingertip,
made a big difference in just diving in and not giving a fuck. :)

when Live upgraded Operator so that you could draw in your own waveforms, well...
that shit was just wonderful to me...

still not gonna sell my K5000r though...
I've never heard a more brutal squelchy resonance in my life...
As if my 303 went on steroids and then transformed into this hang-over on a bad mushrooms trip kind of thing...
fuck waterboarding as a modern way of torture...
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Lost to the Void »

FM was my main weapon for a long time.
I did everything with it.
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by 1nfinitezer0 »

1. Theremins. Demonstrate that we have an EM field that's potent enough to interact with electronics
2. Circuit Bending. Contact points and diverting energy flow.

I have hippy friends that talk about their 'energy' all the time, but I've yet to see some decent theory about our EM fields and how they interact with other beings or all the EM radiation our gadgets pump out (cue Henry Rollins hitting oscilloscopes). However, even if we could influence the fields of analog synths, I'm not sure that our output is strong enough to have an appreciable difference.

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Lost to the Void »

1nfinitezer0 wrote:1. Theremins. Demonstrate that we have an EM field that's potent enough to interact with electronics

To be fair there is not a complex or "potent" interaction in the case of a thermin.

You are forming a capacitor with the theramin, basically you are the earth conductor and the air is the dialectric. It's a very simple relationship, no more complex really than lighting going for you in an open field, as you become the quickest path to earth. That ground could be anything, a human, a clothing rack, a piece of wire.
Everything has an EM field.
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by 1nfinitezer0 »

Lost to the Void wrote:
1nfinitezer0 wrote:1. Theremins. Demonstrate that we have an EM field that's potent enough to interact with electronics
To be fair there is not a complex or "potent" interaction in the case of a thermin.

You are forming a capacitor with the theramin, basically you are the earth conductor and the air is the dialectric. It's a very simple relationship, no more complex really than lighting going for you in an open field, as you become the quickest path to earth. That ground could be anything, a human, a clothing rack, a piece of wire.
Everything has an EM field.
Ahhhh, that explains why they are so damn fussy when it comes to the stage arrangement then. The newer models are better for ranging and avoiding that though apparently. I haven't played around with them myself, just numerous friends (of the nerdier end of the spectrum who have them).

I've always wondered what level of subtlety they are capable of picking up. In other words, whether the shape of your body affects the field or if it's just nearest distance to the antennas.

Insert obligatory Clara Rockmore video:
youtu.be/pSzTPGlNa5U

With all the motion detection tech that's been developing in the past few years, maybe it's time to start more accurate 3D EM sensors.

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by Lost to the Void »

You can be very nuanced with a theramin with practice, weirdly popular instruments with occultists, the better quality ones are more sensitive, but it`s more your proximity to the thing than your body shape. Although some of us offer less (electrical) resistance than others, so that will play in to it.
I think static charge might effect things too, so your clothing can probably have an influence.

I think more interesting are the advantages in neuroscience. There was an article this week about advances where scientists can now predict your brains response to certain stimuli/questions more quickly than your conscious is aware of the decision. It throws up more of these notions of the reality of free will, however the interesting thing is the man/machine interface. We are getting closer to that.
Imagine being able to just think your music into reality.

No more need for stupid clumsy synths at all.
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by PixelKind »

I had the chance to try one of those computer interfaces that reads brainwaves and it was really impressive. After just 30 minutes of calibration i was able to write words on the computer just by focusing on certain elements. It was still very slow though. There was supposed to be a performance of a guy making music with that thing but sadly he cancelled. It was kinda lucky for me though cuz the trained staff was at hand and they had time to let me try it

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

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PixelKind wrote:I had the chance to try one of those computer interfaces that reads brainwaves and it was really impressive. After just 30 minutes of calibration i was able to write words on the computer just by focusing on certain elements. It was still very slow though. There was supposed to be a performance of a guy making music with that thing but sadly he cancelled. It was kinda lucky for me though cuz the trained staff was at hand and they had time to let me try it
I say that untill we have a buttplug that can transform our deepest ringtones into music science still has a long long way to go ! 8-) ;)
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by PixelKind »

I'm sure a crafty engineer could rig up one of your giant dildos with a bunch of sensors so you can MIDI-control your synths with your butt :P

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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

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PixelKind wrote:I'm sure a crafty engineer could rig up one of your giant dildos with a bunch of sensors so you can MIDI-control your synths with your butt :P
are you officiously sollicitating for a job here ;)
rrrrr....
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Re: Bob Moog's view on synthesis and sound creation

Post by PixelKind »

I can do the engineering but you have to do all the testing ;)


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