What kind of synthesis are these leads?

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TomasHD
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What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by TomasHD »

When I listen to this type of leads in techno tracks. I always think about modular synths, I really like the depth of the sound, it seems simple and warm.
but I try to recreate them in soft synths with sine or square waves and I just can get that simplicity, they always sound very trivial or too harsh.

So my question is what kind of synths, preferably soft synths (since I don't have for a modular rack), can do these sounds. I got Reaktor, Massive, and Aalto. I am pretty sure all of these can do the work, but I honestly I don't know how. I love the emotion that hold this sounds I know the have reverb and delay, but I am pretty sure the are more than just a sine or square

Thanks for your help

min.2
youtu.be/RkRm5ouelow
min. 1 30
youtu.be/T7g5XF8h_Do

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barfunkel »

I didn't hear anything requiring a modular or any other hardware synth. They sounded like a triangle or maybe sine waves with lowpass filtering/EQ to make them less harsh, with some reverb and delay on top. Most subtractive softsynths can approximate that.

One thing to consider is the context. Synth sounds that work well in a track often sound quite trivial on their own. Those huge, impressive presets you hear on (soft)synths, OTOH, don't work at all in a song context because they take up too much space and attention. So, you usually want at least a backbone for the track before you start synthesizing lead sounds and such. Make some simple drums and a bassline and play that "trivial" sound on top of that, instead of listening to it on it's own. Most of the time, those nice, fat, energetic sounds you hear on good music are actually quite thin and boring when you solo them. Context is everything.
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Planar »

Try a little bit of glide on the notes as well.

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blnn
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by blnn »

I think most of synths can do similar sounds.
You have to work with short notes, some glide (as Planar said)... maybe some arpegiator could help, and also moving around higher tones or notes. You can use oscilators or just play the notes in the right extreme of the keyboard.
Could work almost every type of waveform if you use some lowpass filter as previously said by Berfunkel, but if you choose senoid, will be easier.
And you will need lots of reverb and some delays.

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by TomasHD »

Barfunkel wrote:I didn't hear anything requiring a modular or any other hardware synth. They sounded like a triangle or maybe sine waves with lowpass filtering/EQ to make them less harsh, with some reverb and delay on top. Most subtractive softsynths can approximate that.

One thing to consider is the context. Synth sounds that work well in a track often sound quite trivial on their own. Those huge, impressive presets you hear on (soft)synths, OTOH, don't work at all in a song context because they take up too much space and attention. So, you usually want at least a backbone for the track before you start synthesizing lead sounds and such. Make some simple drums and a bassline and play that "trivial" sound on top of that, instead of listening to it on it's own. Most of the time, those nice, fat, energetic sounds you hear on good music are actually quite thin and boring when you solo them. Context is everything.

Really interesting what you said, and that is what I really enjoy about techno, simplicity in a positive context. I really like how few but interesting sounds are put together.

I ll try with a sine and a triangle and see what happens :)

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Lost to the Void »

In the first track you have some very bell like sounds, these could easily be done with FM. They are quite soft, so the attack could be rolled off, and maybe a touch of subtle saturation. You can also do these kinds of sounds with any basic analog (dual osc) synth, or indeed a softsynth emulation.
Nothing there jumps out and says "modular" to me.

It`s more about the context of how the sounds have been used.

2nd track is similar. Less bell like than the first, less complex, so probably not FM. Very simple sounds though, and again, nothing leaps out and says "modular" to me.
Again the sounds have been softened, and "warmed". Which might be what you are associating with "analog".

You should be able to do these sounds with what you have, you just need to be careful to soften the sounds down, without overdoing it, and then give them some more harmonic complexity, either with saturation or some invisible drive, then give em reverb and delay.

again it`s the context of everything around them. If these sounds were just on their own they would be fairly innocuous, it`s also the space around them and the others sounds that complete the picture.
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

I have another suggestion, take a hang drum sample put it in a sampler and an arpeggiator in front of it (then play a chord), should bring you there also...at least for the fist part of the first video...

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

Ok so a hang doesn´t sound like I expected :lol: but it´s sound organic and not harsh, so this a thing for lazy people...it doesn´t take much time

Here is the hang attempt:

https://soundcloud.com/barskiniov/hang-test/s-kZgoc

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by TomasHD »

Lost to the Void wrote:In the first track you have some very bell like sounds, these could easily be done with FM. They are quite soft, so the attack could be rolled off, and maybe a touch of subtle saturation. You can also do these kinds of sounds with any basic analog (dual osc) synth, or indeed a softsynth emulation.
Nothing there jumps out and says "modular" to me.

It`s more about the context of how the sounds have been used.

2nd track is similar. Less bell like than the first, less complex, so probably not FM. Very simple sounds though, and again, nothing leaps out and says "modular" to me.
Again the sounds have been softened, and "warmed". Which might be what you are associating with "analog".

You should be able to do these sounds with what you have, you just need to be careful to soften the sounds down, without overdoing it, and then give them some more harmonic complexity, either with saturation or some invisible drive, then give em reverb and delay.

again it`s the context of everything around them. If these sounds were just on their own they would be fairly innocuous, it`s also the space around them and the others sounds that complete the picture.

I guess is my lack of knowledge about modular synthesis, i ve always have related the modular sound to that warm sequences.

trying with FM gave me good results. thanks for that, but my mistake is exactly what you said overdoing stuff. what do you mean about invisible overdrive?

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by TomasHD »

Barskiniov wrote:Ok so a hang doesn´t sound like I expected :lol: but it´s sound organic and not harsh, so this a thing for lazy people...it doesn´t take much time

Here is the hang attempt:

https://soundcloud.com/barskiniov/hang-test/s-kZgoc
Man, thats some trippy stuff, really like what you did with that sequence.

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

Thanks man! You can make cool sequences with a modular synth but it's quite easy to fuck it up completely:) Key is like said before: short tones (that means all your adsr parameters are far on the left side (than you can play with the decay/release for variation, glide, and for effects: delay, phaser!, chorus, reverb) at least that's the conclusion I made while listening to Tolkachevs stuff. Ah and layering simple sequencess is cool too. Listen to him in case you didn't abd you see how expressive and hypnotic his sequences are...(also Hood and Mills of course)....the tracks above are ok but they transmit nothing imo

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Barskiniov wrote:Thanks man! You can make cool sequences with a modular synth but it's quite easy to fuck it up completely:) Key is like said before: short tones (that means all your adsr parameters are far on the left side (than you can play with the decay/release for variation, glide, and for effects: delay, phaser!, chorus, reverb) at least that's the conclusion I made while listening to Tolkachevs stuff. Ah and layering simple sequencess is cool too. Listen to him in case you didn't abd you see how expressive and hypnotic his sequences are...(also Hood and Mills of course)....the tracks above are ok but they transmit nothing imo

You know that most of stani`s stuff isn`t/wasn`t done with modular right? Just eastern european synths and arpeggiators.
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

He has a korg ms2000 (sequence monster) an acidlab autobot (303 clone/pattern generator-but he doesn't use this in a typical acid manner) and several other synth yeah (also I think he is triggering synth with the korg esx arpeggiator...imo he achieves his sequences/patterns (and the sound of it) with his carbon copy pedal and the elec lady phaser...I was a bit mad a time ago to replicate his sound and I got close to him with sending a 303 oscillator trough a modulated delay an put a phase after it...he is using a pretty cliche synth with the 303 but in a realy good way....so no modular yes, I know...but nonetheless I am looking forward to get my hands on my newest purchase: a mfb kraftzwerg with an urzwerg stepsequencer, not real but semi modular and the tracks i am going to make with it will be just a sequence massacre:)

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

Please let me know if you know more about his techniques/gear I mean you might know him because
of subsist and so on right?

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Discordant arpeggios in non 4/4 time signatures. What more do you need to know?
His technique is quite simple, it`s just the overall alien feeling he gets in his stuff through the actual melodic and tonal choices he makes, that makes what he does so...uniquely Tolkachev.
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

Ah ok thanks! He records his stuff trough a mixer...I guess what you say about the time signature is the result of layering unsynchronized tracks and or looping parts of an arpeggiated sequence but not making cuts every bar but every bar and a half or something else? Is that possible?

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

...and yes uniquely he is, one of a handful techno artists I listen to frequently...not to forget all those subsekt mates haha

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Lost to the Void »

Barskiniov wrote:Ah ok thanks! He records his stuff trough a mixer...I guess what you say about the time signature is the result of layering unsynchronized tracks and or looping parts of an arpeggiated sequence but not making cuts every bar but every bar and a half or something else? Is that possible?

No, just use bar lengths not dividable by 4.
Polyrhythms.

There is a big thread about this on the forum somewhere.
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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by Barskiniov »

Yeah that was what I was thinking about, have to try that...thanks

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Re: What kind of synthesis are these leads?

Post by serial »

Barskiniov wrote:Please let me know if you know more about his techniques/gear I mean you might know him because
of subsist and so on right?
in a chit-chat he told me that he uses just few arpegios throw attenuator, controled voltage +/- & lfo

anyway Sleeparchive few recent releases sounds like trying to imitate it ^^
youtu.be/vC6wArwByhw


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