What did you connect to your patchbay?

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:17 am

Hey guys,
Just got 2 patchbay strips and it's really playing with my head on what to connect to it...
I have couple of hardware synths, couple of hardware fx, 2 sound cards with 8 ins/out on each and a mixer with 16 channels/4 busses...
Till now, all my synths were plugged straight to my sound card and only than (thru Ableton) going to the mixer for the mix stage.
So I figure.. no need to plug the synths to the patchbay, I will not process the signal with fx and such.. just need the clean signal from the synths and I can process whatever later if I choose to do so..

But, do you plug all your soundcard outs to the patchbay? all the mixer channel input? channel inserts?
Really having difficulty in deciding what to connect to the patchbay... because now i need double the cables, I don't want to get to the point I'm ordering extra 50 cables for nothing.

Any feedback/Ideas/experience is welcome!

terryfalafel · Post by **terryfalafel** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:30 pm

For me, everything is on the patch bay.

- I don't have a mixer, but I do have a 12 in / 12 out audio interface, all ins and outs on the patch bay.

- Hardware FX in and out on the patch bay

- Synth outs on the patch bay

I tend to route synths into soundcard inputs via the patch bay, or use the hardware FX as external FX in Cubase by setting up send / return loops using the soundcard ins and outs.

For you, it's slightly more complicated if you want to incorporate your mixer. Depending on the type of desk you have, for live recording then you would probably have something like one of these : http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/patchbay.htm

But this might be different for electronic music. It depends on your workflow really.

terryfalafel · Post by **terryfalafel** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:31 pm

Just in case it's not clear, the multitrack tape recorder in the diagrams is where your soundcard would go.

Post by **Críoch** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:43 pm

OHADOHAD wrote:Hey guys,
Just got 2 patchbay strips and it's really playing with my head on what to connect to it...
I have couple of hardware synths, couple of hardware fx, 2 sound cards with 8 ins/out on each and a mixer with 16 channels/4 busses...
Till now, all my synths were plugged straight to my sound card and only than (thru Ableton) going to the mixer for the mix stage.
So I figure.. no need to plug the synths to the patchbay, I will not process the signal with fx and such.. just need the clean signal from the synths and I can process whatever later if I choose to do so..

But, do you plug all your soundcard outs to the patchbay? all the mixer channel input? channel inserts?
Really having difficulty in deciding what to connect to the patchbay... because now i need double the cables, I don't want to get to the point I'm ordering extra 50 cables for nothing.

Any feedback/Ideas/experience is welcome!

I'm going through this atm.. have been thinking about it most days for the last few weeks, in terms of what i actually need the patchbay to do. My room has been an utter mess for the last few months as I declutter / sell stuff & rearrange what remains. Been getting some new stuff, old rack units & they've been sitting around until I had time to attack the room full on. Do a clean up etc..

That time is now

Its a coincidence that you posted this as myself & James Mslwte were talking about it yesterday & last night I think I finally got my head around the patchbay concept. I know its not a major deal but I didnt want to be in a situation where I'd go ripping it apart in a while cos it wasnt doing what I needed.

Without even setting up a single cable.. I realise now that I do not have enough inputs or outputs on the patchbay for ALL the inputs / outputs of the equipment that I have. I'll have to decide which are the ones I'll use the most & get them wired in.

It probably helps me to talk about what I am planning to do (dont know if its what you wanna hear.. but you're getting it anyway haha):

Outputs on top row A.
Inputs on the bottom row B.

Compressor: Inputs / Outputs into the bay. Have total freedom then to choose what I want to patch into it.
Multi FX: Same.

16ch Mixing Desk: Patch the first 8 inputs. Wire the main outputs to the patchbay. I'll be using the desk, a Mackie CR1604 more as an effect and to group the outputs from some drum machines & synths. Its an old mixer and I want to do as little plugging in/out with it as possible. Just in case.

I've got some timber & going to make a little table from 2 sides of wood panel. Top of each panel cut at an angle.. \ \ .. so that the mixer can sit sloped, on same level with the desk. Will only cost a few euro to make and will free up my workspace, where the mixer had been up to now. Its a small enough mixer.. but I'd prefer to have more space to put my laptop & drum machine, synth etc.. should be perfect.

Modulation Points: Inputs for units like the Sherman etc..

Soundcard: Inputs & outputs into the bay, so I can patch various things in & bring stuff out from computer through fx, desk etc.. and back in again. I dont plan on doing any mixes through the desk.. but guess the option is there.

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:35 am

It's actually great that you have shared your plan!

It's interesting and giving me some ideas.
I will use my mackie mixer to mix the final signals, so signal will only go back to sound card from the busses/main outs.
I don't think I will put my synths on the patch bay thou... I will have plenty of options to process them after the clean signal was going thru my sound card (in the box, before the mixer, aux sends).
I just need to decide if I want/need to patch all my 16 mixer channels or the 16 mixer channel inserts (this way you can process post preamp, pre eq), but than i need a bunch of insert cables...

The stuff I'm surely going to put on the patchbays are:
5 External fx Ins/Outs
Send/Returns from the mixer
Subs/Main out from the mixer
8 inputs to one of my soundcards

and than i need to decide if I'm patching all the outs from my soundcards (16 outs) and patching the 16 inputs on the mixer... Or connecting the soundcards directly to the mixer and only patching channel inserts from the mixer to the patchbay (using insert cables which also takes tons of space)..

What would you do?

borg · Post by **borg** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:03 am

where are the inputs on your mixer? at the back, or at the top of the channel strips? if on top, I wouldn't connect those to the patch bay, but use them direct.

in short, everything that has inputs/outputs on the back, gets used a lot, or not easy to reach.

Markus Wolf · Post by **Markus Wolf** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:41 pm

My setup is configured like this: Synths into the inputs on my yamaha FF800 mixer, FX on the Sends/Returns which can be routed to any of the 8 bus outs which are connected to my patchbay. My interface has 6 outs and 8 ins connected to my patchbay. So I can easily patch the outs on my mixer to the ins on my interface or I can patch the outs on my interface to run through my mixer and fx and then back into my interface again. The best thing I bought for my studio was an actual mixer and patchbay combination. I cant see myself working without them as easily. Thats only because I have a few hardware synths and fx and the mixer/patchbay make it very easy to adjust levels and have everything working without having to connect and disconnect all the time.

cheers

Markus Wolf · Post by **Markus Wolf** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:43 pm

Ive never really used it for summing stems of a project or anything like that really. I find that would be harder to work with jumping from project to project because my mixer lacks total recall of the previous projects settings. I think this adds a layer of complexity thats not really needed for me at least. I prefer to use it as a way to control my synths and fx and leave all the project's levels and settings ITB.

innovine · Post by **innovine** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:56 pm

Its really difficult, and changes as your projects, workflow and gear collection involve. Just spend the time to get used to different configurations to see what you like. Rewire it every so often, you can always find new and better things

One thing that helps is labelling each end of each cable. I put colored beads on the brlack cables so its easy to locate their other end. Nothing worse than hunting around at the back of the bay wondering what goes where. You'll likely spend as much time around the back at first, figuring out what you want where, so have good light and be diligent with labels.
Pay special attention to normalization choices!

Post by **Críoch** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:52 pm

Cool. Yeah.. I got some coloured patch cables, so that'll help I'm sure. Also have one if those handheld calculator label maker gadget-things.. So plan on using that for the 'bay.

Post by **Críoch** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:56 pm

innovine wrote: Pay special attention to normalization choices!

Aye.. Feedback loop hell!?

Post by **Mslwte** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:02 pm

Don't put yourself under any pressure to find the perfect setup as I think it's nigh on impossible to achieve.

Also you can make a little word doc or something and make a table with all you gear listed, and audio ins/out and midi channels etc so you have a quick link to see what is connected to what.

innovine · Post by **innovine** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:28 pm

ICN wrote:
innovine wrote: Pay special attention to normalization choices!
Aye.. Feedback loop hell!?

Well, you can get the odd surprise

But I meant more like this... if you set up a normalled connection, but you never actually patch anything into it, then you might as well have wired that device direct to its destination, saving yourself a cable and freeing 2 points on the patchbay. On the other hand, if you've always got something patched in, it probably shouldn't have been in the bay either, that, or the point should be through rather than normalled. You also want to be able to start a new project fresh by ripping out all the patch cables and getting back to a 'default' routing. I've seen a few setups where everything is exposed on the patchbay, but there's no normalization, which means you have to insert a mess of cables just to get things happening. Much better to take advantage of normalisation to get back to you normal setup. This was, for me at least, something I hadn't considered when starting to use a patchbay but it gradually became useful.

Regarding the labelling, colored cables is a must, but most of the longer cable runs around the back of the patch bay to the gear is black. These are the ones I've added a colored bead to, and it makes it really easy to reconfigure the bay (as opposed to just patching with it). And you should plan on a lot of reconfiguring in the beginning.

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:29 pm

Ok, so after tons of drafts and brain melt, this is what Ive come up with:

What do you think?
My synths go straight to my sound card, and than to the mixer, from the mixer I took CH inserts out to the patchbay... that way I can process my audio either in the box or outside...

Markus Wolf · Post by **Markus Wolf** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:04 pm

OHADOHAD wrote:Ok, so after tons of drafts and brain melt, this is what Ive come up with:

What do you think?
My synths go straight to my sound card, and than to the mixer, from the mixer I took CH inserts out to the patchbay... that way I can process my audio either in the box or outside...

Nice labels!!!! This is what im missing in my setup no color coded labels

I have a txt file with all my midid and audio ins and outs but the labels look sexy. So where did you get the labels and software to make them......

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:54 pm

Made everything myself on Pages (mac).

I can send you the document and you can just fill in whatever you want and color it as you like.
The size of the cells should match every patchbay.

Markus Wolf · Post by **Markus Wolf** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:53 pm

Awesome!!!! I appreciate that. I guess I would fill in the Information and then just print on 8x11, cut them out then use clear tape over top?

thanks

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:28 pm

Markus Wolf wrote:Awesome!!!! I appreciate that. I guess I would fill in the Information and then just print on 8x11, cut them out then use clear tape over top?

thanks

exactly what i did

I will upload the file once Im home

OHADOHAD · Post by **OHADOHAD** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:32 pm

Here you go:
http://www3.zippyshare.com/v/zst1fVW9/file.html

Markus Wolf · Post by **Markus Wolf** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:55 pm

OHADOHAD wrote:Here you go:
http://www3.zippyshare.com/v/zst1fVW9/file.html

It didnt work.... I DL'ed the file and pages window popped up saying

"patchbay.pages" couldn't be opened.
The required index.xml file is missing.

subsekt

What did you connect to your patchbay?

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