Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno scene

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msl
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by msl »

helloitsmeagain wrote:I'm a bit ignorant about this, so excuse my massive simplification...

If i lend my mate 100 dollars and he doesn't pay me back, i'm kinda suspect the next time he asks for 100 dollars. By time he's lent 300 dollars and not paid me anything back, i'm saying fuck you buddy, pay me back first. if i keep lending him money without any evidence he's gonna pay me, surely i'm a complete moron?

Well no your not a moron if your a 'loan shark' as they used to call them. You keep on loaning them money so they never get out of debt with you, so you can then take his shop, business, antiques, daughter! whatever.

Keep in mind these are not interest free 'friend' loans, and their are massive commissions being made by the banks and major accounting firms in every transaction and deal. AFAIK Greece wanted to restructure the debt and stop the austerity, not cancel it (they gave up on that), but the Trokia refused every single proposal the last 5 months instead insisting on further austerity. The EU fucking hate Syriza and will do anything to see them fail, their worst nightmare is Spain and Ireland following a good example.


Again this money did not stay in Greece, it just cycled right back to the big banks. Austerity is a political decision not an economical one.

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Last edited by msl on Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Mattias »

Yes that is how it would look like if it was not a far more difficult situation looking back.
It's fairer to do the comparison that if you did not loan your friend the money the third or fourth time, it would not save you money in the end. Instead it would actually make you lose more money then if you did not loan more money to him.

Ahhh the good aged society structure build on massive debts where only few of the so called guarantors make the real money.

The worse part is that the structure has gone on for so long, with watered down systems, that many are too frightened to either revise, change, rebuild and or that they have to keep up with it and try to reduce damage to a dying body for as long as it takes.

The only rescue is to revise it and rebuild it with other ideas and ideals. Sadly there are far too many strong interests working against just that.
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Hades »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ernal_debt

look who's on top.

of course things are more complicated than that,
but what we are talking about here is the money the Greek government owes to external companies since the money didn't come from the EU but only passed through the EU, no ?

just another idea I've had while discussing this with a friend : did no one find it strange that right in the middle of the conversations with the EU,
the Greek prime minister was gone for a day to visit Russia ?
Strategically Greece is perfect for Russia, just like the US loves Turkey so much for the same reason.
It's just an idea, but obviously it will probably take years (if ever) before we find out the real truth behind all this.
and meanwhile they just want us to believe the Greek are lazy and steal our money...
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by helloitsmeagain »

msl wrote:You keep on loaning them money so they never get out of debt with you, so you can then take his shop, business, antiques, daughter! whatever.
Yeah, exactly. The IMF and World Bank are not morons. And they aren't friends to governments. They must have known all along where this was headed. They've always been about loans to poor ass countries, and when they can't get paid back there are conditions, like privatising the economy, giving mining concessions away like candy and the like. Then more loans, then more conditions... It happens in Africa everyday. I'm guessing everybody on the ground is surprised it finally happened in Europe.

Anyway, I'm not too in the loop on this. It's not happening in my back garden or knocking at my door, like I imagine it is at yours. I did come across a interview Chomsky recently did around austerity. Pretty interesting when he mentions the discovery of flaws in the origin of the theory. Not something I'd heard about before. Odd that...

youtu.be/ftTzzmDpqNc
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Hades »

helloitsmeagain wrote:
msl wrote:You keep on loaning them money so they never get out of debt with you, so you can then take his shop, business, antiques, daughter! whatever.
Yeah, exactly. The IMF and World Bank are not morons. And they aren't friends to governments. They must have known all along where this was headed. They've always been about loans to poor ass countries, and when they can't get paid back there are conditions, like privatising the economy, giving mining concessions away like candy and the like. Then more loans, then more conditions... It happens in Africa everyday. I'm guessing everybody on the ground is surprised it finally happened in Europe.

Anyway, I'm not too in the loop on this. It's not happening in my back garden or knocking at my door, like I imagine it is at yours. I did come across a interview Chomsky recently did around austerity. Pretty interesting when he mentions the discovery of flaws in the origin of the theory. Not something I'd heard about before. Odd that...

youtu.be/ftTzzmDpqNc
well that was a rather sudden turn-around from "well if I borrow money to my friend and he don't pay back I'll stop borrowing him money"
to some more intelligent input (no offence Renato) :) ;)

I had never heard of Chomsky before (non-fiction is not high on my to-read list, though I did order "Confessions of an economic hit-man" a few days ago)
Gonna order me one of his economic books and see what I can learn from that.
thx for the link.

btw, I was just talking to my dentist, who is also very much interested in history, and he's currently reading "World Order" by Henry Kissinger,
when I suggested the possible Russian involvement in Greece, he immediately explained how much Kissinger talked in his book about how much the USA tried to gain control over Greece after WWII, purely out of strategic reasons.
I guess that's another book I wanna read soon...

I found it rather amusing in that Chomsky video how the interviewer talks about "free trade" agreements, and the first thing Chomsky says is how protectionist and limited they are,
It's all about perception, isn't it ? call 'em "free trade agreements", and us dumb folks think the world has just become a little better... :|
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by helloitsmeagain »

Yes, I must remember sarcasm travels badly online...

It's been a while since i read a Chomsky. I suggest if you interested you start with Manufacturing Consent.
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

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Aaah, Chomsky
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Wiu »

I just want to know how it is that a bank/company can afford to lend out $18,540,448,667,000 in the fucking first place when there are literally people dying of starvation, homeless, in dire need of healthcare etc etc all across the world. I work so fucking hard for the shitty £7.50 an hour I earn and am going to be in serious trouble when the Bank of England raise the interest rates as I'll basically not be able to pay all my bills each month. I know that there are people far worse off than me both here in the UK and around the world, but it just makes me fucking sick that the distribution of wealth is so fucked up. And I guess the worse that distribution of wealth gets, the more countries debt is going to go up as they have to keep paying out more and more to low paid workers and stuff. How much worse can this get though? How fucked up do things have to get before something or a group of people just snap and refuse to tolerate the established rules and laws and start some kind of revolution? Democracy, despite its obvious advantages, has basically eradicated any kind of hope for any real change too. 1 persons vote means fuck all really. I honestly worry for the future.
Thank you for the laughs, debate, new music found, production tips etc etc over the years. I wish Subsekt and everyone all the best for the future. Wiu.

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by msl »

Hades wrote:I had never heard of Chomsky before (non-fiction is not high on my to-read list, though I did order "Confessions of an economic hit-man" a few days ago)
Gonna order me one of his economic books and see what I can learn from that.
thx for the link.

Chomsky is the worlds most famous linguist, great mind and speaker I've seen him, surprised you haven't heard of him. The book that brought him to prominence is "Manufacturing Consent" pretty awesome book.

Fucking hate Kissinger though he can rot in hell, don't even want to read his words. Scumbag mass murderer.



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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Twilitez »

Article in the guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ill-needed

And one response that cuts through all the bullshit:
They knew that when they gave them the loans after the banking crisis yet still they gave more money, now there is a left wing government all bets are off. The IMF is an unelected and unaccountable organisation promoting economic fascism. Thats what they do, their whole history is making debt slaves out of left leaning countries shortly after the US achieved 'regime change'. Real world truths, right wing organisations are divisive, greedy, violent and dictatorial, you don't live in a democracy so there is nothing you can do about it.
And one more addition, now that ive grown a bit tired of sifting through the (rather long) comments page: http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... t-54757009

This kind of stuff doesnt help my mood alot, best to just see this as a possible catalyst for change. What if Greece manages to dispel the myth that stepping out of the EU and operating outside of the usual financial channels (which they will probably have to) is the end of the world?

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Lost to the Void »

Twilitez wrote: What if Greece manages to dispel the myth that stepping out of the EU and operating outside of the usual financial channels (which they will probably have to) is the end of the world?
If they did, and it worked, it could send out ripples that could cause change.
I very much doubt that will be allowed to happen.
The bribes are probably pouring in to government already.
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Hades »

Wiu wrote:
I just want to know how it is that a bank/company can afford to lend out $18,540,448,667,000 in the fucking first place when there are literally people dying of starvation, homeless, in dire need of healthcare etc etc all across the world. I work so fucking hard for the shitty £7.50 an hour I earn and am going to be in serious trouble when the Bank of England raise the interest rates as I'll basically not be able to pay all my bills each month. I know that there are people far worse off than me both here in the UK and around the world, but it just makes me fucking sick that the distribution of wealth is so fucked up. And I guess the worse that distribution of wealth gets, the more countries debt is going to go up as they have to keep paying out more and more to low paid workers and stuff. How much worse can this get though? How fucked up do things have to get before something or a group of people just snap and refuse to tolerate the established rules and laws and start some kind of revolution? Democracy, despite its obvious advantages, has basically eradicated any kind of hope for any real change too. 1 persons vote means fuck all really. I honestly worry for the future.
eat drum machines Wiu ! ;)

no seriously, that's what I often wonder about as well : how fucking more rich do the rich really want to get ?
I mean, who is behind the curtain that has this kind of money and still wants more ?
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:
Twilitez wrote: What if Greece manages to dispel the myth that stepping out of the EU and operating outside of the usual financial channels (which they will probably have to) is the end of the world?
If they did, and it worked, it could send out ripples that could cause change.
I very much doubt that will be allowed to happen.
The bribes are probably pouring in to government already.
yeah, Russian bribes vs EU bribes ?
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

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msl wrote:
Hades wrote:I had never heard of Chomsky before (non-fiction is not high on my to-read list, though I did order "Confessions of an economic hit-man" a few days ago)
Gonna order me one of his economic books and see what I can learn from that.
thx for the link.

Chomsky is the worlds most famous linguist, great mind and speaker I've seen him, surprised you haven't heard of him. The book that brought him to prominence is "Manufacturing Consent" pretty awesome book.

Fucking hate Kissinger though he can rot in hell, don't even want to read his words. Scumbag mass murderer.



.
well, linguism is absolutley not on my list of interests, and like I said : I seldomly read non-fiction books, the occasional exception being good books about history.

About Kissinger, I agree he's not exactly a likeable fellow (to use an understatement), but I'd read Hitler's biography if he had written one, only to learn something about it.
But hell, I even thought Kissinger was already long dead, he's older than my dad ffs... :)
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by parents »

The fact is that all the private tv channels in Greece are showing images of disaster and openly support the YES vote. Same do the owners of the biggest football clubs and of all the major groups that can guide public opinion.

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by helloitsmeagain »

Hades wrote:well, linguism is absolutley not on my list of interests, and like I said : I seldomly read non-fiction books, the occasional exception being good books about history.
Professionally he's a linguist. He's written a shed load of books, most on linguistics. But he's taken the methods used in his field and applied them to dissecting the world. A lot of his work is outside of the direct field of linguistics. I've never read any of his linguist work. It would probably go way over my head. If i recall correctly he started political commentary as far back as the Vietnam war. He's quite simply one of the sharpest minds I know of. Not many people I'd call a Hero... he's one of them. He's pretty ancient now. When he passes the world will have lost a true great. I'm not sure who, if anyone, could replace his commentary.

This is a great watch that includes Chomsky, and is pretty relevant to the topic.

youtu.be/5fbvquHSPJU

You could just jump to the 16 minute mark.
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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by surface »

You see people suffer, but if someone said that you have to make a sacrifice for the good of others, would you do it? Would you give up your comforts? Work like an kid in India and scour a junk heap for batteries day after day? That's basically it. You live in comfort at somebody else's expense. The world is imbalanced. The poorest of the poor suffer because of the richest of the rich. Funny how Bill Gates and others get credit for being philantropists. There the ones fuckin' shit up, although indirectly ..

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by decode »

Sorry, but most of you are wrong. I'm from the baltics and we too had recesion and economic crisis. It started at the same time like in greece, but got over it long time ago. At the begining we started drastically cuting public spending, pensions and so on. It was hard and very unpopular, but it's over and we allready forgot that. Greeks wanted to stay the same and this is the end result. I'm not racist, but greeks are lazy workers and tax evation is their's as someone said "national sport". We people from the north are hard working, because historicaly its harder to survive here. They think that they are western country, but in reality their are albania with olive trees. Greece pensions system is absurd and was based on loan money.

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by parents »

decode wrote:Sorry, but most of you are wrong. I'm from the baltics and we too had recesion and economic crisis. It started at the same time like in greece, but got over it long time ago. At the begining we started drastically cuting public spending, pensions and so on. It was hard and very unpopular, but it's over and we allready forgot that. Greeks wanted to stay the same and this is the end result. I'm not racist, but greeks are lazy workers and tax evation is their's as someone said "national sport". We people from the north are hard working, because historicaly its harder to survive here. They think that they are western country, but in reality their are albania with olive trees. Greece pensions system is absurd and was based on loan money.
You said you are not racist but this is a hideus, disgasting racistic outrage of yours. And that goes for Greek ppl and Albanian ppl.

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Re: Rant about Greece and politics in the so called techno s

Post by parents »

It is not a good thing to repeat whatever your TV news say. check the table at the link below. Greek ppl are much more hard workers than any of the baltic.
http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS


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