layering kicks / tuning percussion

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by Lost to the Void »

Using a 909 was a shitty example looking back, our ears are so used to those fucking sounds, but I really can`t be fucked to do a proper comparison of something more complex with tuned and untuned drums as I do everything by ear on my own projects.

When I mix down other peoples work I sometimes have to retune elements that don`t fit. Some people just don`t notice.
That`s the thing about techno, there`s purposeful dissonance, and ignorant dissonance.
It`s a good genre for the tone deaf.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

aediorum
washable
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:13 pm
Location: Guildford / London
Contact:
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by aediorum »

I typically do it the other way round! So I'll always start with making a beat, typically kick first. I usually always layer two kicks for the main kick and find a sweet spot where it sounds fattest - this might be B#4 or even sometimes as low as F3 (start note being C4) - and have a separate kick which offsets the main one for the purpose of carving out dat deep groove, which isn't layered and is (usually) pitched slightly higher than the main kick. Once the beat's main elements have been programmed, I'll get my bassline going. Usually I'll mute the drums in order to do this, find a nice pitch / sweet spot where it sounds fattest for the sound I'm using, un-mute the percs and see if it sounds right. Usually I'll have to change the key of the bassline a little, though usually the root note is fine for some reason. I guess my brain remembers the pitch of the kick and takes it into account when programming the bassline... Or maybe it's just a happy accident!

Layering kicks and tuning them really shouldn't be labour intensive, if it sounds right it sounds right. Though I can't speak for people who are tone deaf (no disrespect, you can still make great tunes!) since I am quite lucky in the sense that I can feel when something is awry with my tuning / pitch.

User avatar
krypt
Smore
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:36 am
Contact:
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by krypt »

aediorum wrote:Layering kicks and tuning them really shouldn't be labour intensive, if it sounds right it sounds right.
+++

My experiences led me to a conclusion, that we-live in the past-sample era of beats (But it heavily depends on the genre of the music - i was having modern, deep-driven, spatial techno in mind). The level of production is very high, and there are two choices to achieve that kind of results: solid hardware (elektron, virus, tempest, jomox or modular systems) or really good vst synthesizers/drum machines (i mean really good).

its my opinion and i know that i'll be punished for my ignorance (yeah, Steve, i know).

Not melting samples anymore, it just wont give you that kind of sound (unless you're looking for heavily synthetic sounds). I just use quality outputs from Reaktor.

User avatar
winston
unsure
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:10 am
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by winston »

krypt wrote: I just use quality outputs from Reaktor.

what instruments/ensembles/whatever do you use for drums in Reaktor? i just recently got a legit version and have started to read the manual as i had played about with it a couple of years ago but couldn't get my head around it.

i have looked through the stock ensembles and some from the user library, but i haven't found anything exciting in regards to drums, or a kick synth.

aediorum
washable
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:13 pm
Location: Guildford / London
Contact:
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by aediorum »

Just had a thought actually, in regards to pitching kicks. Once you've got your kicks pitched, you can include out-of-key kicks to offset the beat. It can create a nice effect when used tastefully. Think of it in terms of a jazz tune; a lot of the time it's the out-of-key parts of a melody which cause those goosebump moments!

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by Lost to the Void »

krypt wrote:
aediorum wrote:Layering kicks and tuning them really shouldn't be labour intensive, if it sounds right it sounds right.
+++

My experiences led me to a conclusion, that we-live in the past-sample era of beats (But it heavily depends on the genre of the music - i was having modern, deep-driven, spatial techno in mind). The level of production is very high, and there are two choices to achieve that kind of results: solid hardware (elektron, virus, tempest, jomox or modular systems) or really good vst synthesizers/drum machines (i mean really good).

its my opinion and i know that i'll be punished for my ignorance (yeah, Steve, i know).

Not melting samples anymore, it just wont give you that kind of sound (unless you're looking for heavily synthetic sounds). I just use quality outputs from Reaktor.
I was going to say we are looong beyond synthesis and now beyond "conventional" sampling. It`s more of a synergy at the moment, well, the good stuff, not the boring berlin droning stuff, more electro-acoustic, more acousmatic (look it up) sound. Pure synthetic stuff is just so retrograde, but straight up samples aren`t enough, some combination, re-synthesis, where you have the harmonic complexity and texture of "real" sampled sounds, but the controllability of synthesis, combined with more creative methods at the initial sampling stage, ie don`t sample a snare drum, sample a snare drum coated in syrup and on fire on the back of a 1930`s german military half-track.

Basically, like anything, it`s not what you use, but how you use it.

Be creative.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

vazinho
Interact. Don't Spam.
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:31 am
Location: Melbourne
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by vazinho »

I've yet to download it myself, but Ableton 9.2 was released yesterday, and it comes with a new Tuner device. Has anyone given this a try with tuning kicks/percussion/banjo?

vazinho
Interact. Don't Spam.
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:31 am
Location: Melbourne
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by vazinho »

vazinho wrote:I've yet to download it myself, but Ableton 9.2 was released yesterday, and it comes with a new Tuner device. Has anyone given this a try with tuning kicks/percussion/banjo?
I just remembered I came across this video a short while back. The guy shows how to tune a drum kick with the Tuner device In the beta release of Ableton 9.2.

youtu.be/TQvLzFb-GBA

Planar
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Location: Leeds
Re: layering kicks / tuning percussion

Post by Planar »

vazinho wrote:I've yet to download it myself, but Ableton 9.2 was released yesterday, and it comes with a new Tuner device. Has anyone given this a try with tuning kicks/percussion/banjo?
Yeah, it works reasonably well, but as it moves quickly it's best to cross reference it with a spectrum analyser which can have it's speed changed.


Post Reply