Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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Black Vise
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Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Black Vise »

Wanted to share and hopefully get some of your thoughts regarding something that I've been thinking a lot about lately ...interplay. Specifically, ways that I/you go about effectively creating elements playing a series of patterns that form to create something all together more meaningful. A 'theme' I suppose.

Through experimenting, trial and error, as well as research online over the years I have learned and made adjustments to my workflow regarding different aspects, tools, and techniques on various levels involved in the production process.



Just over a year ago I really started to try to shift my focus in production more in regards to thinking about sounds as a whole and the emotion /energy /experience they conjure in the context of the entire piece as opposed to obsessing and working with a single sound in solo for hours only to come out on the other end realizing I went off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the idea I originally set out to achieve.

Experimentation was and is one of the things that continues to draw me to working with sound, but in the way I described it above I'd often come out feeling frustrated and lost. I suppose you could summarize it as 'unfocused' vs 'focused' experimentation. I wanted shit to have meaning.. everything I was making felt empty. A lot of the time I still encounter this feeling, which is fine. I accept it as part of the process.



I've come to the conclusion that above all of these mind games I have to accept that there are only shades of grey, and that I should just try and enjoy the ride. And I do enjoy this ride, something definitely continues to draw me in day after day.

Since most of us have limited free time to work on music, I'm curious about how it is that some of you go about setting yourself up so that you have the best chance of creating an interplay of sounds that you're able to connect with when working on your own productions.

One of them main issues I encounter with myself is that I usually have to resample and layer sounds quite a bit until I get them in a state where I begin to feel inspired. For example if I start with a drum sequence in a drum rack or on maschine, I'm never really happy until I've resampled and effected those sequences in various ways. I all-together stopped surfing presets in synths years ago since 95% of the time I knew I'd never connect with the sound until I mangled it into something almost unrecognizable.



I realize to some extent the questions I'm posing are rhetorical and there is no right answer, too be honest I just felt like sharing. I suppose it's all about balance.. How do you find balance?

That'll do pig, that'll do

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Lost to the Void »

I don`t start making music unless I have an idea basically.
I don`t push buttons and hope that something will happen.
If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music, forcing it or attempting to apply some methodology, to me, seems to be avoiding the heart and the muse.
It sounds cliche but I have to feel something.

I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.

I`ve been at it a while now so I know when the muse is there, and when to make music and when to know that there is no point.

Quite often my best ideas for techno come to me when I am walking, it`s the rhythm of it that gives me ideas.
Other forms of media give me inspiration too, films, books, paintings, sculpture.
I guess I start with the mood or the emotion I am trying to convey and work from there. Everything is merely a means to get to the completion of that feeling or emotion.
If I am slaving over a sound for too long, then obviously it is the wrong sound, dump it.
Unless things start to feel right quickly, then I tend to dump it. If things start to feel right in a reasonable amount of time, then I can always come back and slave over the details, but the soul has to be there.
It probably all stems from my days playing in bands where you jam it, if the feeling is not there, jam something else.
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Black Vise
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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Black Vise »

Thanks Void, I think that's maybe one of the main things I need to work on. The ability to know myself well enough and accept when I need to just let something go. There's some part of me that struggles with the notion of accepting that even though I have limited free time to try to work on music, when it's not happening. .. it's just not happening. Instead of being able to let it go in that moment, I tend to become resentful towards myself and push forward in a negative mindset. It's like an internal conflict where I'm arguing with myself about whether I'm really passionate about making music, or I'm just a joke.

Gonna keep working on that..

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by winston »

Lost to the Void wrote:

Quite often my best ideas for techno come to me when I am walking, it`s the rhythm of it that gives me ideas.
i get this too. it's like your body is occupied but you're on autopilot, so it lets your brain wander, similar to meditation. i work at home, so i usually go out for a walk in the afternoon and it's not difficult to get an idea for a rhythm or motif and build on it during the walk.

i think that some forms of music can be crafted out of nothing or worked into existence if you know some music theory, but such a big part of techno (some forms at least) is the sound design and their sonic character rather than musical notes. house music you could just have a 4/4 kick, then put in some chords, then write a bass line and a melody without listening to it and you would have something to work with (i mean then you could adjust it to sound decent, but it would give you a starting point). if you have an acoustic guitar, just the chords and the strumming rhythm is enough to get you going.


Black Vise makes a good point about working on sounds in solo rather than as part of the piece. there are times when you need to stop playback and edit the sounds in solo so you can focus on them, but i think it's useful to have the music looping and your sound playing so that you have it in context. otherwise it is too easy to veer off course and create something that sounds good on its own, but doesn't work well with the other parts. synth programming is more suited to this though, i can see that resampling and chopping needs to be done by itself so you can focus on it.

if you can only allocate x hours to music a week, you should still use them hours for music even if you're not feeling it. i wouldn't suggest getting stuck into a track if you're not feeling it, but you can still do other things like programming sounds, making drums, experimenting with your plugins (like putting the same sound through all your different delays with the same settings to see how they sound different). these things will make you a better producer and you'll also be able to see some results for your time and effort rather than just sacking it off and watching bullshit on tv or whatever.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Black Vise »

winston wrote: i think that some forms of music can be crafted out of nothing or worked into existence if you know some music theory, but such a big part of techno (some forms at least) is the sound design and their sonic character rather than musical notes.


This is definitely something I've thought about a lot. Before I started attempting to make techno a couple years ago, I was experimenting with a lot of different electronic genres as I had no idea at that point what I wanted to do. Since I play a bit of piano and know some music theory I always found it much easier to come up with more melodic themes in genres like prog house and trance. And exactly like you said, techno is one of the things that does my head in but pulls me in, in a way no other genre does. It's a subversion of everything I thought I knew up to this point.

Great tip regarding spending my time doing other tasks when things aren't flowing in terms of track creation. I was doing this quite a bit a few years back but recently have started being too hard on myself when I get into negative mindsets in regards to connecting with what I'm trying to create/convey.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Lost to the Void »

Black Vise wrote:Thanks Void, I think that's maybe one of the main things I need to work on. The ability to know myself well enough and accept when I need to just let something go. There's some part of me that struggles with the notion of accepting that even though I have limited free time to try to work on music, when it's not happening. .. it's just not happening. Instead of being able to let it go in that moment, I tend to become resentful towards myself and push forward in a negative mindset. It's like an internal conflict where I'm arguing with myself about whether I'm really passionate about making music, or I'm just a joke.

Gonna keep working on that..

That`s it, you can totally destroy yourself and go through utter artistic angst thinking you`ll never make anything worthwhile again and fight and fight to try to drag something out of nothing, when you simply shouldn`t have started at that moment, and that`s all it is.
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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by innovine »

Lost to the Void wrote:If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music...
I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.
Much like pooping.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by BandoftheHand »

innovine wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music...
I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.
Much like pooping.
Or vomit.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by BandoftheHand »

BandoftheHand wrote:
innovine wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music...
I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.
Much like pooping.
Or vomit.
Or farting.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by SFBM »

innovine wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music...
I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.
Much like pooping.
Completely agree haha. Sometimes you have musical constipation and you sit down to write, are trying to force yourself to be creative but no creativity can come out.

Then other times you have musical diarrhea: you get a million ideas flowing out that you have to unleash out of yourself :lol:

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by nomadjames »

Don't try to fart to hard...
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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by surface »

Black Vise wrote:It's a subversion of everything I thought I knew...
Ah yeah, good ol' techno! ..

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Lost to the Void »

innovine wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:If there is no idea, I don`t try to make music...
I don`t sit down to make music, I make music when the music is in me.
Much like pooping.
Almost exactly the same.
Although sometimes I am much happier with the quality of my shit.
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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Black Vise »

Right on, I think I got it now.

Don't take 'shit' too seriously.. and just let it 'flow' out of you.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Sensive »

Black Vise wrote:Right on, I think I got it now.

Don't take 'shit' too seriously.. and just let it 'flow' out of you.
Haha :D :lol:

Interesting topic. When I force creativity by doing something in terms of absolutely having no clue, I sometimes get very satisfactory results.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by DixieWhiskey »

I'm on the "sit down and work anyway" team. Even if it's just fooling around and not forcing yourself to make progress on a serious project. First because you can come up with interesting stuff you can use later on. Second because that way you learn to apply yourself and avoid procrastination, at the same time you're improving your skillls. Though I see why the more experienced producers would not want to force themselves, since they don't really get any benefit from it, like a beginner would.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Planar »

DixieWhiskey wrote:Second because that way you learn to apply yourself and avoid procrastination, at the same time you're improving your skillls. Though I see why the more experienced producers would not want to force themselves, since they don't really get any benefit from it, like a beginner would.
Spot on I reckon. You probably reach a point where you can create something you can hear in your head (or approximate) and then practice for practices sake would be more of a hindrance than helping.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by surface »

Yeah I hear that. Steve's mixing challenge made me realise how much of an everest is in front of me! Long long road in a slow slow car! ..

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by Black Vise »

Planar wrote:
DixieWhiskey wrote:Second because that way you learn to apply yourself and avoid procrastination, at the same time you're improving your skillls. Though I see why the more experienced producers would not want to force themselves, since they don't really get any benefit from it, like a beginner would.
Spot on I reckon. You probably reach a point where you can create something you can hear in your head (or approximate) and then practice for practices sake would be more of a hindrance than helping.


Makes sense. I've been at it now for almost 6 years and the random mixing and sound experiment assignments I used to give myself don't hold my attention like they did in the first few years. It was all so overwhelming at that time that I could get lost for months in experiments because of how new everything was. Now I very rarely if ever stress about getting a proper mix down or get hung up on technical details. That part feels like it comes much more naturally now.

Though I still learn new things every day and I'll NEVER stop experimenting, I'm mostly focused on searching for the meaning underneath it all at this point in my journey through sound.

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Re: Establishing an Interplay with Sound..

Post by nomadjames »

When I'm out of ideas I just chop breaks.
www.soundcloud.com/nomadjames

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