Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

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skol
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Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

Hey guys,

my first post, happy to be here :P
I have a question regarding headphones / monitoring:

Due to the size of my room I can only place 5' monitor speakers in it, which makes monitoring the bass of my technoid productions a pretty hard / impossible thing. For this reason I am looking for headphones to use them for low frequency monitoring and also for working after 10 pm, which will be my main work time anyways.

After doing (too much) research I am still torn in between the Beyerdynamics 770 Pro and 880 Pro. I have seen the frequency response graphs of both of them and I know that the 880 Pro are more flat, while the 770 Pro emphasise the Bass and Treble slightly more. Basically a clear win for the 880's concerning their usage for monitoring.

One comment that I read got stuck in my head though and it was of someone mentioning that the 770s would be better for electronic / Techno production as their bass emphasis would resemble the environment in which Techno songs are usually played: Club sound systems, which also don't have a flat response but rather a bass emphasis.

What is your opinion about this? Does it make sense to monitor Techno music on headphones which are bass heavy (DT 770 Pro), as club sound systems also seem to be bass heavy, or is it in general and all situations better to go with the most flat headphones for monitoring (DT 880 Pro)?

All the best and thanks beforehand.
skol

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Planar »

They're reference headphones; you want them to be as flat as possible. You want your mixes to translate on as many systems as possible, you can't legislate for how a club system is set up nor should you presume what a listener is using (car, laptop speakers etc).

Lots of people get great mixes on 770's but 880's are what you want if you have the money and amp to drive them.

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Lost to the Void »

skol wrote:Hey guys,

my first post, happy to be here :P
I have a question regarding headphones / monitoring:

Due to the size of my room I can only place 5' monitor speakers in it, which makes monitoring the bass of my technoid productions a pretty hard / impossible thing. For this reason I am looking for headphones to use them for low frequency monitoring and also for working after 10 pm, which will be my main work time anyways.

After doing (too much) research I am still torn in between the Beyerdynamics 770 Pro and 880 Pro. I have seen the frequency response graphs of both of them and I know that the 880 Pro are more flat, while the 770 Pro emphasise the Bass and Treble slightly more. Basically a clear win for the 880's concerning their usage for monitoring.

One comment that I read got stuck in my head though and it was of someone mentioning that the 770s would be better for electronic / Techno production as their bass emphasis would resemble the environment in which Techno songs are usually played: Club sound systems, which also don't have a flat response but rather a bass emphasis.

What is your opinion about this? Does it make sense to monitor Techno music on headphones which are bass heavy (DT 770 Pro), as club sound systems also seem to be bass heavy, or is it in general and all situations better to go with the most flat headphones for monitoring (DT 880 Pro)?

All the best and thanks beforehand.
skol
No, flatter is always better.
Club soundsystems "should" and the good ones are, be flat and balanced. I worked as a soundsystem engineer, have built speaker cabinets and installed both permanent clubs and temporary hires. You always try to set up the soundsystem where the response is flat according to a certain ratio depending on the final SPL required.
You don`t want to have your listening environment tuned to soundsystems that aren`t set up correctly, because it means your music will only work on those that aren`t.


880`s all the way man, I know some mastering and mix engineers who swear by them for studio use when travelling around to other studios.
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

Planar wrote:They're reference headphones; you want them to be as flat as possible. You want your mixes to translate on as many systems as possible, you can't legislate for how a club system is set up nor should you presume what a listener is using (car, laptop speakers etc).
Lost to the Void wrote:No, flatter is always better.
Club soundsystems "should" and the good ones are, be flat and balanced. I worked as a soundsystem engineer, have built speaker cabinets and installed both permanent clubs and temporary hires. You always try to set up the soundsystem where the response is flat according to a certain ratio depending on the final SPL required.
You don`t want to have your listening environment tuned to soundsystems that aren`t set up correctly, because it means your music will only work on those that aren`t.
Thanks for the explanations guys. Very clear and well-understandably put. I had this misconception in my head that clubs would emphasise the bass frequencies on purpose as visitors might demand it.
Planar wrote:Lots of people get great mixes on 770's but 880's are what you want if you have the money and amp to drive them.
Lost to the Void wrote:880`s all the way man, I know some mastering and mix engineers who swear by them for studio use when travelling around to other studios.
Can you recommend any specific model of the 880s? I think there are Pro and Premium models in 32, 250 and 600 ohm respectively. Will the 250 ohm be a good shot?

Concerning the headphone amplifier: Does the amp only increase the maximum volume or does it also improve the sound quality? I usually don't listen to music too loudly due to some ear problems and therefore I'm wondering if I'll really need one or if the integrated amp of my Scarlett 2i2 might not be sufficient for my volume levels.

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by aliasweber »

hi skol,

I was also in the market for 880s a while ago, but then I stumbled upon the 990 Pro (250 ohms), which are fully open and a bit cheaper. maybe you should consider those as well. i'm very happy with those.

-aw

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Planar »

skol wrote:Can you recommend any specific model of the 880s? I think there are Pro and Premium models in 32, 250 and 600 ohm respectively. Will the 250 ohm be a good shot?

Concerning the headphone amplifier: Does the amp only increase the maximum volume or does it also improve the sound quality? I usually don't listen to music too loudly due to some ear problems and therefore I'm wondering if I'll really need one or if the integrated amp of my Scarlett 2i2 might not be sufficient for my volume levels.
The 600 ohms are meant to be the best, but it would cost a fortune to drive them properly. I'm using the 250 ohms and I'm very happy with them. An amp helps with volume and clarity. See this thread http://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3856


aliasweber wrote:I was also in the market for 880s a while ago, but then I stumbled upon the 990 Pro (250 ohms), which are fully open and a bit cheaper. maybe you should consider those as well. i'm very happy with those.
From when I researched this there were divided opinions on what was better, the 770 or 990's. The 880's are universally regarded as the best of the 3. I love my pair.

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Lost to the Void »

skol wrote:
Planar wrote:They're reference headphones; you want them to be as flat as possible. You want your mixes to translate on as many systems as possible, you can't legislate for how a club system is set up nor should you presume what a listener is using (car, laptop speakers etc).
Lost to the Void wrote:No, flatter is always better.
Club soundsystems "should" and the good ones are, be flat and balanced. I worked as a soundsystem engineer, have built speaker cabinets and installed both permanent clubs and temporary hires. You always try to set up the soundsystem where the response is flat according to a certain ratio depending on the final SPL required.
You don`t want to have your listening environment tuned to soundsystems that aren`t set up correctly, because it means your music will only work on those that aren`t.
Thanks for the explanations guys. Very clear and well-understandably put. I had this misconception in my head that clubs would emphasise the bass frequencies on purpose as visitors might demand it.
Planar wrote:Lots of people get great mixes on 770's but 880's are what you want if you have the money and amp to drive them.
Lost to the Void wrote:880`s all the way man, I know some mastering and mix engineers who swear by them for studio use when travelling around to other studios.
Can you recommend any specific model of the 880s? I think there are Pro and Premium models in 32, 250 and 600 ohm respectively. Will the 250 ohm be a good shot?

Concerning the headphone amplifier: Does the amp only increase the maximum volume or does it also improve the sound quality? I usually don't listen to music too loudly due to some ear problems and therefore I'm wondering if I'll really need one or if the integrated amp of my Scarlett 2i2 might not be sufficient for my volume levels.
High impedance headphones can have a more robust voice coil, so you get low distortion (depending on driving source) and some other benefits.
It`s not a huge issue these days though (and despite the blurb from audiophools on audiophool websited, blind ABX testing shows little trending difference).

If your preamp/sound card can handle it, go with the 250ohm. I can only speak for the Pro`s, don`t know about the premiums. I know a lot of guys in the professional industry, like workaday guys who really do swear by them, I`ve used them and found that I can work comfortably with them without ending up with wild mix changes.
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by AxeD »

I've got the 770s 80 ohm. The dip in the mids is definitely not ideal. I mean you get used
to it, but both the 880s and the 990s are a bit better.

If you're not going to get a proper headphone amp, I would advice going with a low impedance model.

I have recommended the Focal Spirit Pros ever since I mixed on them a few times. They are closed, low impedance
and high isolation, but I found they translated to proper monitors very well. Should be in the price range
of the 880s.

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

Planar wrote: The 600 ohms are meant to be the best, but it would cost a fortune to drive them properly. I'm using the 250 ohms and I'm very happy with them. An amp helps with volume and clarity. See this thread http://www.subsekt.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3856
Lost to the Void wrote:If your preamp/sound card can handle it, go with the 250ohm. I can only speak for the Pro`s, don`t know about the premiums. I know a lot of guys in the professional industry, like workaday guys who really do swear by them, I`ve used them and found that I can work comfortably with them without ending up with wild mix changes.
About to buy them in the 250 Ohm version. 8-) I will first see how I like them through my Scarlett 2i2 interface and then upgrade with an amp if necessary. Thanks for helping out!

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Mattias »

I recommend you go with Sennheiser HD650 instead :)
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Monreal »

skol wrote: About to buy them in the 250 Ohm version. 8-) I will first see how I like them through my Scarlett 2i2 interface and then upgrade with an amp if necessary. Thanks for helping out!
I also have the same interface and curious about the results. I have no knowledge about these amps and stuff.

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

Monreal wrote:
skol wrote: About to buy them in the 250 Ohm version. 8-) I will first see how I like them through my Scarlett 2i2 interface and then upgrade with an amp if necessary. Thanks for helping out!
I also have the same interface and curious about the results. I have no knowledge about these amps and stuff.
I will post results as soon as I'll have them here. It might take a week though.

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Lost to the Void »

skol wrote:
Monreal wrote:
skol wrote: About to buy them in the 250 Ohm version. 8-) I will first see how I like them through my Scarlett 2i2 interface and then upgrade with an amp if necessary. Thanks for helping out!
I also have the same interface and curious about the results. I have no knowledge about these amps and stuff.
I will post results as soon as I'll have them here. It might take a week though.
The 2i2 has a good headphone amp. All focus rite stuff has at that level and above.
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

Monreal wrote:
skol wrote: About to buy them in the 250 Ohm version. 8-) I will first see how I like them through my Scarlett 2i2 interface and then upgrade with an amp if necessary. Thanks for helping out!
I also have the same interface and curious about the results. I have no knowledge about these amps and stuff.
A little update for you:

I run the 880 DTs 250 Ohm through my 2i2 Scarlett and putting the headphone knob between 12 and 3 am is totally enough for me. Going till 6 for critical decisions works fine. Even on my Macbook Air I find them sufficient if I max volume out and I'm in a reasonably quiet room.

I will eventually order a headphone amp though just to hear how they sound through one. I've read some comments online that it changes the experience quite essentially but then again: audiophiles being audiophiles.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Lost to the Void »

I did link to an amazing little custom headphone amp a while back, I`ll have to find it again
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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Planar »

Lost to the Void wrote:I did link to an amazing little custom headphone amp a while back, I`ll have to find it again
It's in the link I provided earlier, because I bought one back when you first recommended it ;)

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by skol »

I've heard good things about this one here:

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/product ... amplifier/

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Planar »

Which is the one I recommended earlier in this thread. :?

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Re: Beyerdynamic's 770 or 880 for low frequency monitoring?

Post by Contort »

With regards to headphone amps, check out the audio GD products, I think I may have previously mentioned it also because I was weighing the product I ended up buying againsed that epiphany one, very good components and sound. A head-fi favourite company.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Products-EN.htm


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