What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Techno?

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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by terryfalafel »

ICN wrote:
terryfalafel wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:Have you considered getting a dedicated high end overdrive unit?
Something tube based?
Or even a nice pre-amp
.
Diy option if you know how to use a soldering iron :

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=56356.0
I've only had a chance to scan on my fucking tiny iPhone screen so I've probably missed 1/2 of it.. But how much , roughly does it cost to make something like that.

It's definitely something I want to try. My Dad has so much knowledge.. He fixes synths & audio stuff for a living . It's something I know absolutely nothing about. Been looking for some kind of project to do together. Maybe something along those lines would be cool.

We were gonna build a small synth there a few years ago but he said it would be a piece of shit . He was probably right. Something like that might be more interesting.

Did you ever make one of those tube units?
I've not done this particular project but I've done lots of other bits like compressors, eqs, preamps, 909 clone, xoxbox, various synths etc. My studio is pretty much all diy except for audio interface, controller keyboard and monitors.

I'd guess ( and it is a guess) that that project in the link will be about €250 - 300 total.

If you're interested, the recommendation is always to start with couple of guitar pedals. Total outlay for one project will be say €40 -50 max and you can decide if you like making stuff or not. Also there's no chance of electrocuting yourself with anything that will give you more than a tingle.

If you really want to dive straight in, build a mutable instruments shruthi, or my latest favourite which is preen fm2, a diy FM synth. This thing is cheap, took me about two hours to put it together and it sounds great. You can even load dx7 patches into it. Even your dad will be impressed ;-)

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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Wow! That is impressive stuff Terry. Really. Very cool man.

I dont know whether he'd get too excited with synths. I think that was part of the issue with us doing the DIY thing originally. He really has little sentimentality or interest in music or gear.. even though he's been working with them for around 40 years. Its just business to him. They've got piles of fuck knows what lying around the workshop. They dont see the value in it like we do. Stuff is either worth repairing or not haha. He's like the Mother Nature of audio gear. Survival of the fittest & all of that.

He used to build Marshall, Fender & Vox clones with some other guys back in the 60's / 70's I believe with parts brought in from Russia. It amazes me how they'd get all the stuff pre-internet & while the cold war was going strong. Trust the Irish to find a way haha. The guy he works with now used to design those Copicat delays.

I'd say a guitar pedal would be too simple. He'd be more interested in making something that was 'something'. We should probably start a new thread for this topic. lol
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Lost to the Void »

ICN wrote:Ah Steve - I think Tom was kinda making a joke based on something Unit said about him (Tom) recommending me the OTO Biscuit when I was asking about deskz. That's all. :)

-

Good idea btw about getting something else like that. I fell in love with the sherman filterbank when I went over to visit James there a few weeks ago. Pricey though.

Did you make a little distortion box when you were doing all that DIY there a few months ago?

I know what he was doing, and I was playing along, is this not clear?
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Lost to the Void »

ICN wrote:Wow! That is impressive stuff Terry. Really. Very cool man.

I dont know whether he'd get too excited with synths. I think that was part of the issue with us doing the DIY thing originally. He really has little sentimentality or interest in music or gear.. even though he's been working with them for around 40 years. Its just business to him. They've got piles of fuck knows what lying around the workshop. They dont see the value in it like we do. Stuff is either worth repairing or not haha. He's like the Mother Nature of audio gear. Survival of the fittest & all of that.

He used to build Marshall, Fender & Vox clones with some other guys back in the 60's / 70's I believe with parts brought in from Russia. It amazes me how they'd get all the stuff pre-internet & while the cold war was going strong. Trust the Irish to find a way haha. The guy he works with now used to design those Copicat delays.

I'd say a guitar pedal would be too simple. He'd be more interested in making something that was 'something'. We should probably start a new thread for this topic. lol
In that case build a compressor with your dad. They are complex enough to be interesting, but not over the top, and you can go to town as much as you want.
Go optical, ridiculous sexy gain stage, feed back, feed forward, vari mu etc.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:
ICN wrote:Ah Steve - I think Tom was kinda making a joke based on something Unit said about him (Tom) recommending me the OTO Biscuit when I was asking about deskz. That's all. :)

I know what he was doing, and I was playing along, is this not clear?
I thought it was perfectly clear.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

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ICN wrote:Oh & Tom.. good idea suggesting the Biscuit.. but dunno.. If I was gonna go down that route.. I think I'd like to get a Sherman haha

They're fucking amazing.
right, so all along you're just craving over a Sherman,
or if not a Sherman, some unit to overdrive your stuff
you're not really interested in a mixer at all, are you ?
but yet you open 2 topics on mixers...

those mod cunts, they think they can get away with anything. :D

why don't you get both John, I did. :mrgreen:
And while I was at Herman's place buying my Sherman (2x2 version), he demonstrated his "Restyler",
and I had a good hour of pure fun mixing on his decks and using the Restyler.
I immediately bought one as well, I couldn't help myself.
But the Restyler is just a fun DJ tool, not really something for studio use.
It's only in my studio untill I buy myself a DJ mixer again and set up my decks again.

Herman's a great guy, btw, a real gentle nutty professor type.
His working place is one big mess.
He's got 2 massive speakers hanging on big chains in the corners on the ceiling (forget about expensive monitors),
and uses some old Akai synth (not a famous model, forgot which one) as a controller.
Cables everywhere.
Really, you'd expect to walk into a nice and tidy workspot, and it's totally the opposite.
Above the door to his workspace is a guitar attached to the wall. He said it was the first controller he ever built, somewhere around '84 or so.
And outside the workspace are approx. 10 vintage synths laying around like someone just tossed them just about everywhere, not really caring about what they are worth.

Anyway, the Biscuit and the Sherman are 2 rather different animals.
If you want really nasty brutal distortion, the Sherman can always give you that. But I find it very hard to get more gentle results with it.
I remember someone saying it's because the Sherman is standardly only responding when the input signal is overdriven,
and you can turn that off by sending a MIDI signal to it. Then the Sherman is supposed to respond more like a normal filter bank.
It's just pressing a certain note on the keyboard, but I haven't tried this out yet.
I have to admit I barely spent time with my Sherman uptill now.
One of the pieces of gear I bought in the last 2 years when I had so little time for anything that I still need to invest some time into properly learning how to tame the fucker.

The Biscuit on the other hand gives you a real nice crunchy kind of distortion/overdrive.
The bit-crusher works really well with drums, but you can just use the drive to overdrive your signal,
and the analog filter at the end is really great at softening the sometimes too rude signal you get, or throwing in some extra resonance.
The Biscuit is dead easy and very fast to work with, the Sherman is rather the opposite.
But obviously, the Sherman is a lot deeper.

If you want you can always send me some loops and I'll run them through both for a few minutes, just fiddling away,
and I'll send you the loops back.
It's probably better than if I would just use some of my own loops.
I won't tell you which loops are run through which unit though, that way your opinion won't be affected by a perhaps existing subconscious preference. :D

no waffles will be hurt in the process.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Lots of replies to make.. will chat in a bit lads. Busy man today :D
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by UN!T »

Hades wrote: It's called making a suggestion.
Its called making a joke
That's why there is a smiley. If I was serious, that would be missing. Fucksakes man.. not 3 days ago you were breaking my balls about my Canadian accent. Surprised you could even understand what I was saying.

Hades wrote: But yelling random things it certainly isn't.
Really? Talked with Nicknack lately? :lol:
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by UN!T »

If the point of the whole thing is to overdrive something then there are lots of better ways to do it than buying a crappy old board. A channel strip, a compressor, guitar amp, a pedal. Toft channel strips can be had used at a good price. Joe Meek is cheaper still and there are of course other brands too.

I don't really see the point of trying to circumvent the problem of the convertors dying. You're just extending the life span of something than is going to replaced anyways. So its a long slow death instead of moving forward and dealing with the problem. Why not just spend the money on what needs to be replaced or upgraded?

ICN I think you own a space echo no? Try running your drum machine thru the space echo with no verb and no echo, just using the preamp in the space echo. Cane that bitch so its bumping into the red on the VU meter a little and see how that sounds...
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Lost to the Void wrote:
In that case build a compressor with your dad. They are complex enough to be interesting, but not over the top, and you can go to town as much as you want.
Go optical, ridiculous sexy gain stage, feed back, feed forward, vari mu etc.
Sorry for the late reply'z..

Yeah.. I was thinking like that too. Some kind of distressor kinda thing. I was looking up last night about making the filter units. Maybe even some kind of distortion thing. I dunno. From my searching last night & today, theres a shit load of stuff out there.. and fuck all audio examples as far as I could find. Bit chancy like if you are putting in the hrs & the $'z.

But yeah.. like that idea.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Hades wrote:
right, so all along you're just craving over a Sherman,
or if not a Sherman, some unit to overdrive your stuff
you're not really interested in a mixer at all, are you ?
but yet you open 2 topics on mixers...

those mod cunts, they think they can get away with anything. :D

why don't you get both John, I did. :mrgreen:
And while I was at Herman's place buying my Sherman (2x2 version), he demonstrated his "Restyler",
and I had a good hour of pure fun mixing on his decks and using the Restyler.
I immediately bought one as well, I couldn't help myself.
But the Restyler is just a fun DJ tool, not really something for studio use.
It's only in my studio untill I buy myself a DJ mixer again and set up my decks again.

Herman's a great guy, btw, a real gentle nutty professor type.
His working place is one big mess.
He's got 2 massive speakers hanging on big chains in the corners on the ceiling (forget about expensive monitors),
and uses some old Akai synth (not a famous model, forgot which one) as a controller.
Cables everywhere.
Really, you'd expect to walk into a nice and tidy workspot, and it's totally the opposite.
Above the door to his workspace is a guitar attached to the wall. He said it was the first controller he ever built, somewhere around '84 or so.
And outside the workspace are approx. 10 vintage synths laying around like someone just tossed them just about everywhere, not really caring about what they are worth.

Anyway, the Biscuit and the Sherman are 2 rather different animals.
If you want really nasty brutal distortion, the Sherman can always give you that. But I find it very hard to get more gentle results with it.
I remember someone saying it's because the Sherman is standardly only responding when the input signal is overdriven,
and you can turn that off by sending a MIDI signal to it. Then the Sherman is supposed to respond more like a normal filter bank.
It's just pressing a certain note on the keyboard, but I haven't tried this out yet.
I have to admit I barely spent time with my Sherman uptill now.
One of the pieces of gear I bought in the last 2 years when I had so little time for anything that I still need to invest some time into properly learning how to tame the fucker.

The Biscuit on the other hand gives you a real nice crunchy kind of distortion/overdrive.
The bit-crusher works really well with drums, but you can just use the drive to overdrive your signal,
and the analog filter at the end is really great at softening the sometimes too rude signal you get, or throwing in some extra resonance.
The Biscuit is dead easy and very fast to work with, the Sherman is rather the opposite.
But obviously, the Sherman is a lot deeper.

If you want you can always send me some loops and I'll run them through both for a few minutes, just fiddling away,
and I'll send you the loops back.
It's probably better than if I would just use some of my own loops.
I won't tell you which loops are run through which unit though, that way your opinion won't be affected by a perhaps existing subconscious preference. :D

no waffles will be hurt in the process.
Tom.. Thanks for that kind offer.

I'll definitely give you a shout with some loops etc.. if you dont mind closer to the time when I have funds clear for more purchases. I missed out on the older sherman unit a few years ago & really enjoyed listening to what James' one could do. Unreal.

I dont think I could go visit that guy. I'd buckle & not buy anything, then feel ashamed forever :?
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Lost to the Void wrote:
I know what he was doing, and I was playing along, is this not clear?
Forgot to reply to this one!!

Yeah - It was as clear as fucking MUD!! hahaha :P :lol: :lol:
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

UN!T wrote:If the point of the whole thing is to overdrive something then there are lots of better ways to do it than buying a crappy old board. A channel strip, a compressor, guitar amp, a pedal. Toft channel strips can be had used at a good price. Joe Meek is cheaper still and there are of course other brands too.

I don't really see the point of trying to circumvent the problem of the convertors dying. You're just extending the life span of something than is going to replaced anyways. So its a long slow death instead of moving forward and dealing with the problem. Why not just spend the money on what needs to be replaced or upgraded?

ICN I think you own a space echo no? Try running your drum machine thru the space echo with no verb and no echo, just using the preamp in the space echo. Cane that bitch so its bumping into the red on the VU meter a little and see how that sounds...
Hey Man,

The origin of the distortion / overdrive / desk is that I want to get a desk to make it easier to route shit into my dying soundcard (Are you aware of that? Oh you are haha). If I am gonna get a desk at all.. sure why not get one that was used for a bit of distortion as a bonus.

I dont necessarily want to get a overdrive / FSU unit / preamp / greenbox of social awkwardness right now. Down the line yes.. but right now I want to spend my money on a couple of other things before then. Hence why I am going to nurse my soundcard through to the end. It's sufficient for now 8-)

Space Echo? Yep.. I had one & sold it. Made a nice profit on it which allowed me to get the MD UW MKII. Things did sound nice through it alright. Did that a few times.. but not enough. Would have been easier to do if I had a desk :mrgreen:
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by UN!T »

Well this is a very nice solution.
http://www.radialeng.com/workhorse.php Little beyond your price range though maybe? I dunno. Once you start to include the 500 series modules it will add up. And you will want to add them. Api 527 comp on drums with some Chandler EQ maybe? You know you want it... :D Still for 1300 and 8 channels summing out of the box its hard to beat. I think I would take this bare bones 'modular' summing vs an Allen & Heath MixWizard3 for my money. Took my friend a year and a half to fill his with modules. Sound great compact and he can always change the modules for something different down the line. Of course if that is all too much too contend with you could downsize to this and build a single channel strip of your dreams and then multitrack everything....
http://www.radialeng.com/cube.php
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Críoch »

Man.. Top marks for the effort you put in on that post but you are correct about the budget. Lol

I'll be quite fine with some dirty little unappreciated gem that is in need of a loving home.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by UN!T »

Maybe consider an older MixWizard 14:4 I had one of these a couple years ago altho it was an Mk3. Took it back cause it smelled funny. I dunno... I saw somebody else complain about it too last year. I was also less than impressed by the sound and the feel of the faders too, so that is what I told the guy when I returned it to the store. I mean what is he going to say if I tell him I want to return the mixer because I think it smells funny??? :lol:
Still you could go for an older one maybe.. Bit nicer than a Mackie really as long as it doesn't smell. 4 band eq and 4 or 6 sends.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

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UN!T wrote:
Hades wrote: It's called making a suggestion.
Its called making a joke
That's why there is a smiley. If I was serious, that would be missing. Fucksakes man.. not 3 days ago you were breaking my balls about my Canadian accent. Surprised you could even understand what I was saying.

You were suggesting my suggestion (god what a stupid line) was some random blabbering.
I don't think you were joking with that, rather having a laugh with my suggestion,
saying it didn't make any sense at all to talk about anything else than a mixer since we were talking mixers here.
Something along the lines of "there Hades goes on again about the Biscuit, wtf ?"
I think that's why you put the smiley there, not because you were having some jolly old joke.
there is definitely a difference.
But either way, I can live with that.
It's all water under the bridge. ;)

When was I ever breaking your balls about your Canadian accent ?
Point one, we're typing English here, so it would be rather hard to even notice an accent, right ? :)
Point two, if my ever deteriorating brain remembers correctly, you lived in Toronto and now you live in Vancouver.
(if you're originally from Toronto or Vancouver (or even Saskatoon or wherever) I don't know, neither does it really matter)
But as far as I remember both of these cities are English-speaking, so I would think you are a native English speaker.
(I remember saying someone here needs to defend the (English speaking) Canadian team.)

And I was only saying how terrible indeed the Canadian French is when wap wap was saying this.
I did 2 weeks of the camino with a guy from Quebec once, and I did 2 months of tobacco harvest in Ontario with another guy from that region.
Job-wise I used to deal with people from all over France (the accents in the south are damn right terrible), and I still have to deal with all kinds of accents from Wallonian people.
Some accents are pretty, some are damn right ugly. It's like this for all languages.
Quebecois (or however you're supposed to spell that) is fucking ugly, and I won't change my opinion on that if you are or are not from over there.
It's a juicy accent, I'll give it that much, but it's ugly as hell.

The region I'm originally from in Belgium has the worst accent in Flemish you could imagine.
It sounds like cave-men who can't pronounce half of their consonants because they lost their teeth eating mammoth leg.
Whenever there are people on tv that speak that dialect, they always put subtitles underneath that.
Everyone in Belgium laughs with it constantly and acts as if all people from there are the most stupid idiots on earth.
I moved out of there 19 years ago, but I don't care, I still love my accent and I'm proud of it,
even if I only get to speak it when others from my region are around.
But at the same time I hate people who are not able to speak proper Dutch/Flemish,
and who can only talk their ugly dialect and think everyone else will just understand.

In any case, I don't recall laughing with your accent in particular, only laughing with the French accent from people from Quebec, in a reply to wap wap.
I would do it again though. It's a fucking ugly accent, just like my Flemish accent is fucking terrible. :D

UN!T wrote:
Hades wrote: But yelling random things it certainly isn't.
Really? Talked with Nicknack lately? :lol:
don't take that line out of context please.
I think me and 1 or 2 others here have had enough patience with dicknack.
Let's call his case a day allready and move on. We should have given up ages ago (as you rightly suggested).
And even there I still don't think I was yelling random things.
Even if dicknack is a troll, he still had an interesting urm "train of thoughts" sometimes... :lol:

Now let's get back to the music, no ?
(and pass me the vaseline please !) ;)
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Hades »

UN!T wrote:If the point of the whole thing is to overdrive something then there are lots of better ways to do it than buying a crappy old board. A channel strip, a compressor, guitar amp, a pedal. Toft channel strips can be had used at a good price. Joe Meek is cheaper still and there are of course other brands too.
exactly the reason I was suggesting a Biscuit as just another option to consider.
I think it's pointless getting a cheap-ass mixer just to overdrive something when there are so many better options.

UN!T wrote: Why not just spend the money on what needs to be replaced or upgraded?
Because people don't like to be forced to spend their money on repairing or replacing gear but prefer to buy new (or vintage) gear (in any case, some piece of equipment they haven't owned before) instead.
I needed a new laptop, and instead of buying a new laptop I bought an Xpander, who needs a repair (thank god it still works 80%, and I can actually use the random sounds it starts producing at times) and which I only use once in a while.
I fucking use my laptop every day.
Hard lesson to learn, I had to work hours and hours extra to save up for my new laptop, it took me 6 months to get there.
I was a pure idiot.

My APC40 broke down in March (apparantly it was only the adapter, even though I had checked it with another adapter (same voltage and so on)).
In any case, I only got a new one in August, though I use it every day I'm in the studio. I did get 3 other pieces of gear in the mean time (2x HW + 1x SW).
It doesn't make any sense, but I hated to pay money to just replace something.

I learned my lesson after the laptop thing though. I'm putting aside money every month now just so I would have an emergency fund that I can use if I have something expensive break down that I need to replace immediately (APC40 wasn't expensive enough to qualify using the emergency fund for). :D

UN!T wrote: ICN I think you own a space echo no? Try running your drum machine thru the space echo with no verb and no echo, just using the preamp in the space echo. Cane that bitch so its bumping into the red on the VU meter a little and see how that sounds...
now there's good suggestion.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

Post by Hades »

ICN wrote: Tom.. Thanks for that kind offer.

I'll definitely give you a shout with some loops etc.. if you dont mind closer to the time when I have funds clear for more purchases. I missed out on the older sherman unit a few years ago & really enjoyed listening to what James' one could do. Unreal.

I dont think I could go visit that guy. I'd buckle & not buy anything, then feel ashamed forever :?
no man, Herman is the sweetest guy ever, trust me.
of course, for me, it was only a 40 minutes drive :D
but you would most definitely buy it if you heard him use it.

Just let me know if you want me to run some loops through some stuff.
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Re: What Mixing Desks Did They Use To Overdrive 909s / Tech

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ICN wrote:
Space Echo? Yep.. I had one & sold it. Made a nice profit on it which allowed me to get the MD UW MKII. Things did sound nice through it alright. Did that a few times.. but not enough. Would have been easier to do if I had a desk :mrgreen:
you CUNT !!

I remember saying I was interested, and you forgot all about me.
boohoohoo ! :cry:

who did you sell it to ?
how much did you get for it ?
Sin cambios no hay mariposa



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