Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

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Hades
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Hades »

wapwap! wrote:
nicknack wrote: promoting? what on earth are you on about? too many people promote themselves. it's become a promotion free-for-all. fuck that. i just want to have fun. no ambition here.
you are the god of self promotion dicknack.

he's hoping people will just keep talking about him.
It's just a different kind of marketing... ;)
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

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Lag wrote:I grew up on pop and still love it, so never had a problem with everyone loving what I'm loving - as long as it's good music. I have a problem with people not loving music even though it's good, and not giving it a chance only cause it's not popular (or popular for that matter).

This reminds me - here's a good podcast on how people's brains cope with audio patterns they haven't encountered before.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91514-sound-as-touch/

fuck, can't listen to the podcast at work.

I was always interested/devestated at how people almost always need to "recognize" something in order to "like" it. It's one of the reasons I hated playing live (back in the days when I still did that many many years ago, an age where people called all kinds of electronical music "dance music").
If you know no one has ever heard the song you're playing, then almost no one is gonna react positively to it unless it's a really big and catchy tune or it evokes a pure emotion someway (and let's face it : not a lot of techno evokes pure emotions, even though I wish this was more often the case).

I sometimes liked fooling around with that concept when I DJ'ed. I was just a regular DJ, playing regular mash-up party music (I only truely fell in love with techno 5 years ago, though I have listened to many electronical music over the years for the last 20 years, hell, I remember listening to (and loving !!) Jarre's Oxygène and Equinox while playing with my lego's at age 7), but I liked throwing in the occasional "harder" track. Around that time it was often "Confusion, New Order's Bloodbath remix" from "Blade"
(I loved how it's almost 5 minutes of pure hard mayham before there's even the slighest sign of a break) :

youtu.be/t6UXQ_9IRo8

When I noticed it would clear the floor, I would try to put little snippets of the track on top of other tracks for an hour or 2 before I would eventually put on the track they hated before.
All of a sudden, it wouldn't clear the floor, people even came up asking what track that was,...
Yeah yeah, lurched you into liking it... :mrgreen:
But as a DJ you always gotta educate your crowd a bit. I feel it's part of your duty.


It's funny, looking back at that in retrospect, cause I used to hate the overdriven 303 sound for years before I really started to like it, and with this track I loved it immediately, even though this was years before I even knew what a 303 was.

I also believe artists and whole music genres can really grow on you.
Sometimes I go back to music I really didn't like, and now I can't believe how I didn't like this at first.
Sometimes some of the best tracks (or artists) really have to grow on you.
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Lost to the Void »

Hades wrote: youtu.be/t6UXQ_9IRo8

Great track, comes with an interesting but horrible story.

My old mate Dan Zamani made that track, it`s actually Called: New Order - Confusion - Pump Panel Reconstruction
http://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Confus ... se/1737592
was released on london records, FFRR, Missile and of course was then licensed to The blade soundtrack and warner.

Now Dan made that track, Tim Just stuck his name on it, as he had with other "working partners" he has had.

That record is one of, if not the best selling records in techno. (It was declared best selling techno record of all time in early 2000`s), as it was re-released and when licensed to the Blade Soundtrack, it got re-re re released, and sold and sold and sold. It was also ripped off, completely by a couple of other artists (Operation Blade by Public Domain, and Blade - The theme from - by Danny Saber & Marco Beltrami.)

Anyway, the license from warner itself, was a huge sum of money, let alone the record sales themselves.

Dan Never saw a penny, and the whole situation depressed him so much (he also made the infamous Horn track on FFRR for which he never received proper credit) he walked away from the techno business. Such a lovely guy, and a total music genius too, he has some great producer credits (did stuff for the chemical brothers, to name a few).

Shit sucks sometimes....
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by ozias_leduc »

i was always confused about that track

did they get jipped because it was credited to new order on the blade soundtrack?

anyhow, that would sting. not sure i'd react any differently

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by UN!T »

Hades wrote: If I gotta watch that gilette commercial once more where this guy shaves off his whole chest and belly hair I'm gonna puke, I swear !!

youtu.be/Qe_sXNuhjuE

The music really makes it quite pleasant. :D
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Hades »

Lost to the Void wrote:
Hades wrote: youtu.be/t6UXQ_9IRo8

Great track, comes with an interesting but horrible story.

My old mate Dan Zamani made that track, it`s actually Called: New Order - Confusion - Pump Panel Reconstruction
http://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Confus ... se/1737592
was released on london records, FFRR, Missile and of course was then licensed to The blade soundtrack and warner.

Now Dan made that track, Tim Just stuck his name on it, as he had with other "working partners" he has had.

That record is one of, if not the best selling records in techno. (It was declared best selling techno record of all time in early 2000`s), as it was re-released and when licensed to the Blade Soundtrack, it got re-re re released, and sold and sold and sold. It was also ripped off, completely by a couple of other artists (Operation Blade by Public Domain, and Blade - The theme from - by Danny Saber & Marco Beltrami.)

Anyway, the license from warner itself, was a huge sum of money, let alone the record sales themselves.

Dan Never saw a penny, and the whole situation depressed him so much (he also made the infamous Horn track on FFRR for which he never received proper credit) he walked away from the techno business. Such a lovely guy, and a total music genius too, he has some great producer credits (did stuff for the chemical brothers, to name a few).

Shit sucks sometimes....
damn, that's quite the story. Never knew this track had been so famous.
I just played it tons for a year or 2 after I saw that famous vampire rave scene and thought "WTF, what the hell is that music, I need that track !!"
Then eventually moved on, hadn't thought about this track for years untill this evening.

Just discovered the C side of the original doublepack is one big bomb as well. "Re-Mover"
Love it !!

http://www.discogs.com/release/19441

At least I'm happy I helped spreading that track, especially cause I was almost always up to a crowd that could stand at most 1 or 2 electronic music tracks without starting to nag for their usual pop/rock/whatever mix...
I just loved bombing them with that remix. :D
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Hades »

UN!T wrote:
Hades wrote: If I gotta watch that gilette commercial once more where this guy shaves off his whole chest and belly hair I'm gonna puke, I swear !!

youtu.be/Qe_sXNuhjuE

The music really makes it quite pleasant. :D
I can tell someone's preparing himself for Steve's growing vaseline supply !


Man, sometimes I see guys in the gym who fucking wax their arms and legs.
Jeezes, I already get annoyed that I gotta waste time to shave twice a week.
(and yes that's a normal shave, as in removing the hair from your cheecks)
I find men who shave their arms and legs really really REALLY disgusting.
Even a shaved chest is a no no for me, unless you're some really hairy gorilla, then it makes sense I guess...
You're a guy for christ sakes, guys are supposed to be hairy !
Women do all that shaving stuff. Not us ! :D

but yeah, maybe I need to listen to some harps and flutes, perhaps that's what those guys do...
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Lost to the Void »

ozias_leduc wrote:i was always confused about that track

did they get jipped because it was credited to new order on the blade soundtrack?

anyhow, that would sting. not sure i'd react any differently
"they" didn`t get jipped. Dan got Jipped. Tim did fine, as usual.
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

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i shave my arm pits. not for the aesthetic. it's purely practical. less bacterial growth catches because there aren't any follicles to cling to. thus less stink and less need to wash under your arm pits. since i only shower once a week it helps me stay fresh. i reckon it helps me keep the job. i also shave my head once in while. saves me going to the barber i don't care about the way it looks classic bald hair style or not.

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by wapwap! »

there is a difference between marketing trying to push you buy useless things or replace some other, and marketing that let discover you stuff you will like anyway.
if you just upload something on a website and wait for people to discover it you can wait a very long time haha.
it only works if you already have a well known name, but even popular guys need to have a strategy.

in fact if you believe in what you do, i think it's normal to search a way to reach the more people you can, because you think you are doing good music.
Last edited by wapwap! on Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by nicknack »

christianity is not responsible for historical carnage. if everybody followed a good degree of the christian doctrine, there wouldn't be war and the world would be peaceful. but this is impossible since people cannot live up to that standard. crusades are not christian. no, christianity was simply used as an excuse to loot, rape and pillage at most, or by a confused brutal minority at least. chivalry is not christian. saving a damsel in distress is not the same thing as invading a country brutalizing a portion of its population. good christians are pacifist martyrs. they do not blow themselves up for any reason what so ever. the hedonism you see today is a relic of european paganism and in that sense it is bad. but it has become such an integral part of society that it is impossible to avoid and becomes part of the distance that needs to be made up to be a perfect person. technology is not going save the world, it will differentiate it further. in fact at this rate, we are headed for a dystopia.

call it ethics. call it what you want. it is what it is and christianity is the first documented case of it. so why not give it, it's due credit and call it christian. everything the man said, his words, where pure good reason that if applied to everybody, simply works like a charm.

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by nicknack »

AxeD wrote:Image

I don't get the discussion though. Is it about Surgeon being a scary cult leader using religion
as a promotional weapon or something? Is he Santa?

I have honestly only heard his records and seen him play. He has been making great music since I was fuckin three years old or something :lol:
get a magnifying glass....

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by nicknack »

Hades wrote:
wapwap! wrote:
nicknack wrote: promoting? what on earth are you on about? too many people promote themselves. it's become a promotion free-for-all. fuck that. i just want to have fun. no ambition here.
you are the god of self promotion dicknack.

he's hoping people will just keep talking about him.
It's just a different kind of marketing... ;)
that is not true Hades. i am trying something new. my whole life i've tried to advocate myself as being good at this or that so that i can be accepted. fucking job interviews trying to justify yourself to some arse hole just because you want money. fuck it. now i'm trying honesty. i'm telling people the truth about me whether they're interested or not. i want to see what'll happen. i'm still behind the nick but what difference does it make. it's just a nick; the reset is all true as bob.

what i'm finding is that no matter what you do, you can never satisfy people. they always want more from you. so unless you're willing to die a martyr, you have to draw the line somewhere and be prepared to defend yourself at the cost of whatever else is at stake. your job. your money. your family. your dignity. your life.

edit : i just noticed a nice little paradox in that last statement. in the extreme case, if it is your life that is at stake. what good is defending yourself for the sake of your own death. nonsense. that is why christian values are sound and the more you diverge for that ideal, the more nonsensical things become.

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Post by Lost to the Void »

nicknack wrote:christianity is not responsible for historical carnage. if everybody followed a good degree of the christian doctrine, there wouldn't be war and the world would be peaceful. but this is impossible since people cannot live up to that standard. crusades are not christian. no, christianity was simply used as an excuse to loot, rape and pillage at most, or by a confused brutal minority at least. chivalry is not christian. saving a damsel in distress is not the same thing as invading a country brutalizing a portion of its population. good christians are pacifist martyrs. they do not blow themselves up for any reason what so ever. the hedonism you see today is a relic of european paganism and in that sense it is bad. but it has become such an integral part of society that it is impossible to avoid and becomes part of the distance that needs to be made up to be a perfect person. technology is not going save the world, it will differentiate it further. in fact at this rate, we are headed for a dystopia.

call it ethics. call it what you want. it is what it is and christianity is the first documented case of it. so why not give it, it's due credit and call it christian. everything the man said, his words, where pure good reason that if applied to everybody, simply works like a charm.
Your assumptions of paganism are simply an excuse for the failures of Christianity.
Like any set of arbitrary rules based on nothing but thin air and myths, Christianity has no solid base on which to stand.
It is mired in hypocrisy, it's doctrine is a mish mash of stolen tales and rules.

When you base something on lies and pure fictions, it will never work, which is why it has failed.

I thnk you do not understand what ethics are, but Christianity has nothing to do with them.
Social ethics have always existed.
Morals are systemic and can exist outside of social ethics.
Such as the idea of homosexuality. It may be morally wrong according to the stories told in some ancient fairy tale, but ethically there is nothing wrong as long as no one is harmed.
The moral rules set down by Christianity are by no means the first documented. Not by a long shot.

There is this thing called history, you should check it out man, it'll blow by our mind.
For example, Taosim pre-dates the Christian ideals by a simple 4 centuries.

There is no religion that will save making. What will sort us out is reason, reason and ethics, and these are both clouded by the stupidity of religion, which exchanges reason and ethics for blind faith and obedience.
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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by Lag »

wapwap! wrote:there is a difference between marketing trying to push you buy useless things or replace some other, and marketing that let discover you stuff you will like anyway.
if you just upload something on a website and wait for people to discover it you can wait a very long time haha.
it only works if you already have a well known name, but even popular guys need to have a strategy.

in fact if you believe in what you do, i think it's normal to search a way to reach the more people you can, because you think you are doing good music.
QFT
Hades wrote: I was always interested/devestated at how people almost always need to "recognize" something in order to "like" it. It's one of the reasons I hated playing live (back in the days when I still did that many many years ago, an age where people called all kinds of electronical music "dance music").
If you know no one has ever heard the song you're playing, then almost no one is gonna react positively to it unless it's a really big and catchy tune or it evokes a pure emotion someway (and let's face it : not a lot of techno evokes pure emotions, even though I wish this was more often the case).

I sometimes liked fooling around with that concept when I DJ'ed. I was just a regular DJ, playing regular mash-up party music (I only truely fell in love with techno 5 years ago, though I have listened to many electronical music over the years for the last 20 years, hell, I remember listening to (and loving !!) Jarre's Oxygène and Equinox while playing with my lego's at age 7), but I liked throwing in the occasional "harder" track. Around that time it was often "Confusion, New Order's Bloodbath remix" from "Blade"
(I loved how it's almost 5 minutes of pure hard mayham before there's even the slighest sign of a break) :

youtu.be/t6UXQ_9IRo8

When I noticed it would clear the floor, I would try to put little snippets of the track on top of other tracks for an hour or 2 before I would eventually put on the track they hated before.
All of a sudden, it wouldn't clear the floor, people even came up asking what track that was,...
Yeah yeah, lurched you into liking it... :mrgreen:
But as a DJ you always gotta educate your crowd a bit. I feel it's part of your duty.


It's funny, looking back at that in retrospect, cause I used to hate the overdriven 303 sound for years before I really started to like it, and with this track I loved it immediately, even though this was years before I even knew what a 303 was.

I also believe artists and whole music genres can really grow on you.
Sometimes I go back to music I really didn't like, and now I can't believe how I didn't like this at first.
Sometimes some of the best tracks (or artists) really have to grow on you.
I fully agree. AFAIK even Ron Hardy had to play Phuture - Acid Trax three times before the crowd "got it".
There is a quote I really like, it goes like:
"Desperate for the new, but disappointed with anything but the familiar."
You have to systematically create confusion, it sets creativity free. Everything that is contradictory creates life.

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by nicknack »

a bit more of an analysis on why surgeon chooses the anti-christ as his image

okay so let's assume that he doesn't take this whole satanism/anti-christ thing seriously. 1.1) it could be a joke on everybody. i can see the humour value, from his perspective, in insulting mainstream beliefs after having obtained an audience in enough numbers. i think it would be a huge rush, organising a huge event then getting on stage and having a fat wank before performing. because i know people would tolerate it because i know that they want the performance more than they want to be treated with respect as an audience. and as the performer, i would get a hard on for that. i reckon most men would. right, so further assuming it's his personal joke, we need to remember that the joke was started at a very early stage in his life. he may still find it funny, in which case the joke is still on his audience. on the other hand, it's gotten a little dry by now. the problem with that is that now he's stuck with that image. it's surgeon. it's his livelihood and the old saying applies; if it aint broke then don't fix. so he's left with this horrible vestige from his past that he now must carry around with him in his adult life where ever he goes. wonder if he goes to church? 1.2) as was mentioned earlier, he's marketing a product. so assuming he's marketing a product, the image becomes wholly attached to the product. the problem with this is that the whole idea of marketing is to sell as much as you possibly can, whereas the effect this has is to make the product a very exclusive one. i can guarantee you the majority of people in the world do not identify with the anti-christ. not even the majority of techno listeners. that is why i eliminate this as plausible. still possible but improbable. 1.3) it could in fact be some attempt at an anti-marketing campaign. to purposely make the product likable by a very select few. why this would be is another question.

now, on the other hand, lets assume that he takes this whole anti-christ satanism thing seriously. that is, it is or has been a serious belief in his life at some point. i've already given reasons in a previous post in this thread as to how this can happen. it's happened to me and it is happening to a lot of people around the world. there is nothing odd about it. i am an open minded person which means i will not rule out UFOs, ghosts, the yetti, big foot, etc, unless you can logically refute their existence. so 2.1) i see the assumption that he is a consort of a real devil as possible. in this case, his motives are the destruction of the world as we know it and the introduction of hell on earth. in this case he is also really a murderer / serial killer and whatever else it takes to maintain his position whatever that may be. and that he is the ultimate pied piper, leading the worlds children to where ever it is he does. i tend to believe hell on earth is not a good thing but also that if techno were still around then, it wouldn't make it as bad. obviously this is the least plausible of all my assumptions because it is the one which requires most evidence, but there it is. now 2.2) he takes the anti-christ philosophy seriously but hasn't yet been able to get in touch with his master the devil. or maybe he thinks he is the devil himself. or he's his own god or sound is his god. in all of these cases, he still takes the anti-christ attitude seriously but there doesn't not have to exist the invisible master. well in fact this case coincides exactly with case (1.1) above where the joke is on his audience.

whether it's serious or not. it is what it is and in the most likely cases he has contempt for his audience. but again that contempt is justified by the quality of his product. so the appearance doesn't not motivate his product. in fact it is the converse which applies. the product motivates it's appearance.

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Post by nicknack »

Lost to the Void wrote:
nicknack wrote:christianity is not responsible for historical carnage. if everybody followed a good degree of the christian doctrine, there wouldn't be war and the world would be peaceful. but this is impossible since people cannot live up to that standard. crusades are not christian. no, christianity was simply used as an excuse to loot, rape and pillage at most, or by a confused brutal minority at least. chivalry is not christian. saving a damsel in distress is not the same thing as invading a country brutalizing a portion of its population. good christians are pacifist martyrs. they do not blow themselves up for any reason what so ever. the hedonism you see today is a relic of european paganism and in that sense it is bad. but it has become such an integral part of society that it is impossible to avoid and becomes part of the distance that needs to be made up to be a perfect person. technology is not going save the world, it will differentiate it further. in fact at this rate, we are headed for a dystopia.

call it ethics. call it what you want. it is what it is and christianity is the first documented case of it. so why not give it, it's due credit and call it christian. everything the man said, his words, where pure good reason that if applied to everybody, simply works like a charm.
Your assumptions of paganism are simply an excuse for the failures of Christianity.
Like any set of arbitrary rules based on nothing but thin air and myths, Christianity has no solid base on which to stand.
It is mired in hypocrisy, it's doctrine is a mish mash of stolen tales and rules.
the words of jesus are in no way contradictory. if you look only at those words and disregard the rest you will find no mish mash, no stealing and no rules. just pure common sense, reason and love.
Lost to the Void wrote: When you base something on lies and pure fictions, it will never work, which is why it has failed.
truth is not fiction
Lost to the Void wrote:
I thnk you do not understand what ethics are, but Christianity has nothing to do with them.
Social ethics have always existed.
Morals are systemic and can exist outside of social ethics.
Such as the idea of homosexuality. It may be morally wrong according to the stories told in some ancient fairy tale, but ethically there is nothing wrong as long as no one is harmed.
The moral rules set down by Christianity are by no means the first documented. Not by a long shot.
yes social ethics have always existed. but christian values are what have stopped disgusting practices like animal and human sacrifice. don't get me wrong. i'm not saying we should force people to stop doing these things. if you want to eat your babies, that is your problem. i would simply advise that you don't.
Lost to the Void wrote:
There is this thing called history, you should check it out man, it'll blow by our mind.
For example, Taosim pre-dates the Christian ideals by a simple 4 centuries.


There is no religion that will save making. What will sort us out is reason, reason and ethics, and these are both clouded by the stupidity of religion, which exchanges reason and ethics for blind faith and obedience.
no but virtue and the right set of values will mitigate a lot of problems. and throwing those out will make thing a lot worse.

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Re: Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

Post by wapwap! »

can't believe some people have serious conversations with nicknack. i noticed this guy as a troll months ago.

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Post by jordanneke »

wapwap! wrote:can't believe some people have serious conversations with nicknack. i noticed this guy as a troll months ago.

+1

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Post by jordanneke »

HAD TO BE DONE...........


http://themantrain.ytmnd.com/

:D


ps -nsfw - ever.


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