Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

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LuigiTozzii
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Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by LuigiTozzii »

Hey guys, I'm building a podcast with Ableton and I notice that when I warp the tracks they keep in time perfectly only for few bars, then the beat starts very slowly to go out of time so this gives me problem obviously when I mix 2 tracks.
I have been warping them manually but it's too long...maybe I have something wrong in my preferences but can't see what....or there's something I don't know....any expert here?
Thank you

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Mono-xID
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by Mono-xID »

Mmmh, weird. If you have warped the tracks on grid it should be perfectly in sync.
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by oddmyth »

Hey Luigi,

Check this video out.

youtu.be/6BTf7dwvvCo

I find that getting the initial beatmarker right is paramount, after that either Ableton figures it out, or you need to use all sorts of methods to get it to line up. Ultimately it's easiest to lineup the first beat of every 8 bars manually and if the beat structure is easy enough for Ableton to discern it will automagically come close enough.
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by Lost to the Void »

Warping is rarely pin accurate. Get your start marker bang in, then go to the first beat of the last bar of the end of the tune, double click the point so it turns yellow and becomes a warp marker, drag it on to the grid and bobs your mothers brother
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by LuigiTozzii »

Nah, not working, the tracks go out of sync very early and the only way to get a decent result is to fix it like every 6/8 bars (manually) which is a nightmare.
The video took me away 1 hour without teaching me anything^^
Spending 6 hours to warp manually 15/20 tracks for a podcast is idiot, and also you get time stretching so they won't even sound good....it's ridiculous how ableton couldn't work better on this.

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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by Mattias »

Not using Ableton but maybe the tracks are the problem? It it perhaps vinyls rips that you try to get in sync?
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LuigiTozzii
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by LuigiTozzii »

no it's files from bandcamp beatport and promos =)

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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by oddmyth »

LuigiTozzii wrote:Nah, not working, the tracks go out of sync very early and the only way to get a decent result is to fix it like every 6/8 bars (manually) which is a nightmare.

The video took me away 1 hour without teaching me anything^^

Spending 6 hours to warp manually 15/20 tracks for a podcast is idiot, and also you get time stretching so they won't even sound good....it's ridiculous how ableton couldn't work better on this.
Yes when you first start using Ableton to warp whole track, it's going to take you a long time. Especially if you are dealing with complex rhythmic material. Warping full tracks isn't something that's automagic in Ableton, I don't think they've every built it to be a DJ sync program, there's enough of those out there anyways.

More tips:

1. Preferences -> "Record / Warp / Launch" -> Set "Autowarp Long Samples" to Off.

2. Import your source material into an Audio track. Make sure the Hi-Q button is lit up.

3. Set the "Preserve" option to 1/16th notes or whichever makes the most sense in the material you are playing. Leaving it at transients isn't helpful in techno or any other very transient heavy material. For example if I was playing something with really sparse hi hat patterns (like minimal) then I might choose 1/8 notes, but in general you can start at 1/16, because most of the material you will be playing has been mostly likely programmed on a 16 step grid.

4. Set a warp marker at the very first beat of the song, find the point where the it crosses the middle line to avoid creating any first beat clipping. Right click the beat marker and select "Warp From Here (120BPM)".

5. Start looking at the bar lengths of the track, is the first beat of the 2nd, 4th, 8th, 16th, 32nd, 64th, 128th, 256th bar lining up correctly? Is the first beat after the breakdown lining up correctly? Is the first beat of the last measure lining up correctly? You can use the grey transient markers to shrink or expand the content so that these areas of interest line up properly.

On average it takes me about 5 minutes to warp a whole track (many tracks take about a minute at most) so an hour and a half for 20 tracks.

It's very frustrating the first time you do it, but it does get much much easier.
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by rein »

note that although Ableton only shows 2 digits after the . in the bpm number... it still accepts a lot more digits after it (and almost always detects a number like this). so for example when it states 125.00, this could be 125.0049 and this is the main reason you have to adjust the warp markers later in the track.

just line up the first kick properly and put in the bpm manually, most of the stuff will line-up except most hardware sequence stuff.

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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

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Hmm interest Rein, I'll have to try that out
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by Lost to the Void »

LuigiTozzii wrote:Nah, not working, the tracks go out of sync very early and the only way to get a decent result is to fix it like every 6/8 bars (manually) which is a nightmare.
The video took me away 1 hour without teaching me anything^^
Spending 6 hours to warp manually 15/20 tracks for a podcast is idiot, and also you get time stretching so they won't even sound good....it's ridiculous how ableton couldn't work better on this.
If you don't like the time stretching, you can try the various algorithms, all perform better for different tunes, beats mode, complex and complex pro can all be fairly transparent unless you are going extreme.
You can always turn the warping off and go with vinyl mode (pitched) which works the same way as a pitch slider on a deck.

I find if I am track working, some tracks have to be manual, but not that often. As long as you get the start marker correct.
If you know the bpm it is even easier, you just set the first marker and then right click "warp xxxbpm from here". Easy.

It is very rare you should need to warp ever 6-8 bars.

Simply delete all the warp markers, set the first marker, grab a beat a couple of bars on, drag it to place, notice the bpm reading, re warp at that bpm, tidy up, job done.
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by Mslwte »

..and by now I would be completely bored with the process. It kills all the joy out of DJing. Traktor is a better way to do it.
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Re: Podcast with Ableton, warping problem.

Post by LuigiTozzii »

note that although Ableton only shows 2 digits after the . in the bpm number... it still accepts a lot more digits after it (and almost always detects a number like this). so for example when it states 125.00, this could be 125.0049 and this is the main reason you have to adjust the warp markers later in the track.

just line up the first kick properly and put in the bpm manually, most of the stuff will line-up except most hardware sequence stuff.
This was the problem, correcting the bpm manually fixed everything =)


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