Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

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ross-alexander
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Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by ross-alexander »

I realise some aspects of this may have been covered in other topics regarding midi sync, but just wondering if anybody has worked this way in a suitable fashion.

I have recently acquired a couple of bits of hardware; it's been really enjoyable. From jamming and synching it with ableton I have got loads of new inspiration and finally feel like getting away from the sit down and try and make a tune to recording larger sessions to return to and edit at a later date.

What I would love to do is record audio clips from hardware along with sequences from software, maschine etc triggering recording of clips via launchpad or something. I am not fussed at all on recording the midi from the hardware at all just the audio.

Does anybody work in this way successfully? Any advice to give? Ideally I would still like to use the clock and sequencer from the hardware and record the audio in in sync with creating other parts via software but in all honesty I am not entirely sure the best way to go about getting it all to sync this way, and from reading around people seem to be in more pain about it than where I am up to.

I understand to a degree how to route the midi / audio and can get a perfect sync for playback without monitoring through ableton but not sure of the additional steps to take, would love to find out please help!

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Mslwte »

Working woth audio is how I do most of my production. Recording external sounds into ableton and then manipulating from there.

I know you have the machinedrum and I know the best way to sync everything is to use the machinedrum as the master and slave everything else (including ableton) that's not how I do it though lol I I do experience a bit of a sync delay but I prefer to just jam out on bits of hardware an then record them in.

I don't really use midi a great deal but If I do I'll record in the audio quickly as well.

Two benifits of that is it forces you to use what you have made and not tweak to much and it saves CPU.

And audio is just easier Setting up all the midi can be a ball ache lol
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by failed_utopia »

I currently just setup my studio like this, I use Push, I have a Saffire Pro, all the hardware runs into an A&H Zed10fx which has a record out feature which I run back into the PC it also has a playback feature (it does have USB audio, but it sucks imo) I use a microbrute, rocket, volca beats/keys, monotribe, and a kaosspad on the aux channel..

For sync I use the individual USB inputs on the microbrute and rocket

Midi out goes to Volca keys with sync out to the beats..

basically I might spend some time building stuff in ableton (instruments/drum racks) then just start jamming, if I'm in a section I am enjoying I hit 'record' on the mixer channel and I have my default ableton template setup with one audio channel for recording.. I then use session mode in push to grab these loops, sit back down later and arrange everything, works pretty good.

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Mslwte »

i usually press record and jam out my main loops for 8, 9, 10 minutes and then ill cut out the boring parts and keep the interesting parts. Ill start cutting up the audio into sections and arranging them. ill then use plugings in ableton and start to effect to sound. maybe adding extra samples and loops and fx etc
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by ross-alexander »

Am just a tiny bit away really, am in sync fine if I monitor the hardware via soundcard but if I monitor in Ableton just a little bit out. Not sure whether I adjust track delay, hardware latency on ext inst or something else I'll have a fiddle some more.

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Mslwte »

If I'm out of sync at all I'll adjust the start and stop markers on the sound that gas been recorded. It's also a good way of finding a new groove ;)

You could potentially spend to much time tweaking those track delays etc and not making any tunes!
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Hades »

ross-alexander wrote: What I would love to do is record audio clips from hardware along with sequences from software, maschine etc triggering recording of clips via launchpad or something. I am not fussed at all on recording the midi from the hardware at all just the audio.

Does anybody work in this way successfully? Any advice to give? Ideally I would still like to use the clock and sequencer from the hardware and record the audio in in sync with creating other parts via software but in all honesty I am not entirely sure the best way to go about getting it all to sync this way, and from reading around people seem to be in more pain about it than where I am up to.

I understand to a degree how to route the midi / audio and can get a perfect sync for playback without monitoring through ableton but not sure of the additional steps to take, would love to find out please help!
I work with audio clips 90% of the time, even though I have a studio which is approx. 80% HW vs 20% SW.
I used to just record my HW as audio, and manually adjust latency problems by moving around clip starting points or even use track delay.
I sometimes still do that, but I've switched more recently to syncing Live externally to my Xbase888.
I think it was UN!T here who confirmed what I always suspected : that Live sucks at sending out a proper timing signal, so I noticed it works a LOT better when you slave Live to an external clock.

Sometimes I even run SW synths through my mixer, add HW fx or EQ from my mixer, and then rerecord them in Live as audio. I actually love doing stuff like that.

A few little tips when recording clips :

*try to record longer clips, with proper looping points if possible. That way, it's easier afterwards to cut out one proper loop (or even several loops if you want to, depending on how long the clips are that you record)

*if you're still not able to find a good looping point (this can be particularly hard with pads or textures), load the audio clip in Sampler, and use the crossover fades, then make an endless MIDI note clip and let it play, the result will be a nice endless loop, which you can then still bounce to audio if you like, or just leave it to play like that.
They should have added crossover fades in audio clips in Live 9, I would have LOVED that.

*if you ever plan to use a lot of filtering later on, don't close the cutoff on your original sound too much, otherwise you won't have enough to filter afterwards and the sound will become too dull in no time.
Remember that you can always take away harmonics, but it's a lot harder to add harmonics, unless you go into harsh distortion, saturation, or stuff like ring modulation,...

*don't be afraid to record lots of clips. Even as raw as fuck or as unuseful as they might seem at first, there's a chance you might still be able to use them someday.
I'm constantly adding clips to my clip library, and in the last few months, I've even added a new folder in there that just says "clips", where I can put in the stuff that's as raw and unfinished as possible. That way I'm not throwing away stuff I can sense I might be doing something with later on but that I have no idea how to continue working on now (or simply don't have any time to finish them any more).
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Hades »

Mslwte wrote:If I'm out of sync at all I'll adjust the start and stop markers on the sound that gas been recorded. It's also a good way of finding a new groove ;)

You could potentially spend to much time tweaking those track delays etc and not making any tunes!

exactly, moving start and end points of loops around works pretty well to solve most sync issues.

I use track delay rather often to try out new stuff or find new grooves, but it's very tricky, and just like mslwte says it's easy to stay tweaking that stuff for hours with no reasonable result.
I find closing my eyes usually helps to decide whether or not something feels right if I find myself abusing track delay for too long...
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by ross-alexander »

Really appreciate your input guys!! I am slaving live to the Machinedrum clock and that is working out reasonably well I think what I should do is what I am doing as I am playing, direct monitor from the soundcard and record to a discreet audio channel in Ableton, without Ableton monitoring the sound (so I have no heard latency) and fiddle round with the loops later.

It's really been awesome fun starting with some non software tools it's given me a creative boost that was much needed. I got them to work with live but feel that some of the jams and stuff I've had it would be a shame not to capture some stock to work with

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Hades »

when I had my first go at making electronical music (in 94), there was only HW, and SW sequencers didn't even exist yet (or if they did, they did shit and costed a fortune). :D

I'm soooo happy nowadays with our current SW,
and especially Live cause it's such a superb tool,
but as much as I've moved from HW to SW and back to HW,
I'll always keep on appreciating HW. I could never be SW only,
or better : I would never want to be SW only.
Yeah sure, SW can be so much more practical, and you can be so much quicker,
but I just can't help it, HW is so much more fun.
even with all the little quirks, and sync issues and stuff,
you just take all that in as part of the HW experience I guess...

and with every new technical issue that you might come across,
in the end, if you find a solution, you just build up more "experience" in the problem solving area... :)
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by blnn »

Hades wrote:when I had my first go at making electronical music (in 94), there was only HW, and SW sequencers didn't even exist yet (or if they did, they did shit and costed a fortune). :D
I started in 94 too and I can say that was a headache to work with the old Cubase and Fastracker II... but I used them because piracy made me able to start producing while I was student...


Today I record whole mix from hardware into Adobe Audition or into Cubasewhen making solo in the channels of the hardware mixer... recording a channel alone.... and I don't use midi sync to do that although it will be easy...

I prefer to do it like that because I love freedom and accidents... because I think creativity usually appears in that context :)

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Hades »

I record my HW as audio clips in Live, and manually correct any syncing issues that might occur.
I work with softsynths too, and some of them I use in pretty much every project (omnisphere for example),
but it's safe to say I prefer working with HW in general.
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Corp Por »

All hardware live takes and just use ableton to record. :)

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by TvSkY »

i record all hardware as audio as individual tracks and mix and arrange from there . either logic x or live 9 .

there is a fair bit of hardware but most tracks are 80% software . its just quicker and easier and i am lazy ......

occasionally I mix everything out from the daw to the mixing console for analog summing and eq and record the main mix , but mostly I stick to rendering out of the daw

depends on the track . the heavier tracks suit analog mix downs more

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by bobby_cuntox »

just built a eurorack (after selling all my 90's hardware, spending the 00's on software and then deciding i wanted hardware again): currently syncing it with logic. Recorded eff all in months. best fun in ages.

Edit : haven't made a drone yet either!

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by Jef »

My setup is hybrid.
Modular and synths clocked to ableton.
All channels with effects and loops go from the daw into my zed r16.
Instead jamming with hardware and software.
Downside is that i never complete any song just jamming but thats the fun for me!
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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by disparate »

Also running a "hyrbid setup" here.
Corp Por wrote:All hardware live takes and just use ableton to record. :)
I often do this, although for me it can include also running tracks (e.g. Operator, Simpler, warped audio tracks) out to my desk. Might eventually get a hold of a Launchpad for that.

Other times I do as TvSkY describes - recording as individual tracks then manipulating in live.

Depends on the sounds I'm making and how much I want to look at the computer really. In any case I tend to use Ableton as the master clock with my MPC and Machinedrum as slaves, tried it other ways but that's what seems to work for me.

I'm definitely a fan of this sort of setup, best of both worlds IMO. I find software more powerful for sound design (especially as I enjoy messing with samples and FX a lot) and hardware has the obvious tactile advantages. I'm realising that a lot of the sound I want in my tracks is down to processing samples creatively whether it's Porc or field recordings or recordings from my synth or whatever, which is something software is more suited to, to me hardware alone is better for "conventional" jams (drum machine and synth sounds, and simple samples) - or maybe that's just the hardware I have* ;)

I can make OK-sounding mixdowns on my mixer, not quite as good as Ableton in that regard although that might just be because the desk's pretty basic (no parametric EQ!) and I don't have much outboard FX.

Reckon a Zed mixer would suit me well as I'd still get to do hardware mixing but have the option of manipulating after the recording is done, if I'm understanding its features correctly? As much as I enjoy one-take-jams it's frustrating having to remember the structure and re-record because the hi-hat turned out to be a bit too loud...

*I admit I've not properly devoted time to experimenting with samples on my MPC - I use it as a sequencer and for drums but I need to get round to loading some field recordings etc into it to see what I can do

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Re: Hybrid recording setup hardware / software / ableton

Post by innovine »

Corp Por wrote:All hardware live takes and just use ableton to record. :)
I find Reaper to be far better than Ableton for this, especially if you are recording multitrack and wish to do comping and multiple takes, overdubs, punching in and out, and so on. It's just much more elegant in handling and manipulating takes and tracks than Ableton is, even if you can ultimately do the same in both. Plus the demo is free and fully functional, and the full price is pretty decent. Absolutely recommended for hybrid multitracking setups where the sw mostly records.


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