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 Post subject: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:05 pm 
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this is a demo master meaning it is ''mastered'' by myself on the same system that it was created.
I m doing it so , getting the idea from Andre Crom's post about the proper way of submitting demos
and sounded like an interesting way of doing it (demo master around -10db rms)
so
I m really having trouble getting that thumb hitting on the kick. I guess this is the limitation of an entry level setup.
also maybe there is an imbalance on M/S signal.
at some points effects can sound overwhelming the track itself, I know))
any feedback would valued and appreciated.
thanks

https://soundcloud.com/kosh-mason/custom-needs2

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Track not found mate

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:00 pm 
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https://soundcloud.com/kosh-mason/custom-needs2/s-RlNJ3
sorry about that

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Just had your track spinning, good work. Even though the style is not 100% my cup of tea, but that's just a matter of taste. The kick is clicky in the beginning of the track and it seems to fade out a little bit, when more elements are playing. Is is this what you mean? I'm not a pro at this whole shit, so I don't know if I can be of a lot of help, but maybe question yourself if your source already has some thump to it. I don't think that mastering can do the magic and get thump to something that doesn't has thump... And... Isn't there like a bit of a rule of thump ääääh thumb (haha) that you can have like -6RMS? So maybe you still have a bit of a headroom left you can work with :) Anyway, I don't think it's that bad :) Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Kick seems to be sitting too high, might want to pitch it down a bit, see how that sounds. The mix is also a bit transient heavy, not everything has to literally pop out at you.... And I think the compression on the master is too heavy, that brassy stab thing is probably sticking out a little too much causing some unwanted ducking.

The arrangement seems to be just plodding along at times, needs some sense of purpose.

Overall you have some nice sounds going on, but the mix needs some work before you can attempt to 'master it.
With a few tweaks this could be a decent track imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:25 pm 
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SHIDZO wrote:
Just had your track spinning, good work. Even though the style is not 100% my cup of tea, but that's just a matter of taste. The kick is clicky in the beginning of the track and it seems to fade out a little bit, when more elements are playing. Is is this what you mean? I'm not a pro at this whole shit, so I don't know if I can be of a lot of help, but maybe question yourself if your source already has some thump to it. I don't think that mastering can do the magic and get thump to something that doesn't has thump... And... Isn't there like a bit of a rule of thump ääääh thumb (haha) that you can have like -6RMS? So maybe you still have a bit of a headroom left you can work with :) Anyway, I don't think it's that bad :) Cheers

my major concern was not to distort the signal when pushing it loud, so I think i eq more than the kick needed. the source has enough weight at the lows.
and the rule of thump you are referring to, is -6db peaks not RMS ))
and I always value all the inputs , thanks shidzo :D

vo0doo wrote:
Kick seems to be sitting too high, might want to pitch it down a bit, see how that sounds. The mix is also a bit transient heavy, not everything has to literally pop out at you.... And I think the compression on the master is too heavy, that brassy stab thing is probably sticking out a little too much causing some unwanted ducking.

The arrangement seems to be just plodding along at times, needs some sense of purpose.

Overall you have some nice sounds going on, but the mix needs some work before you can attempt to 'master it.
With a few tweaks this could be a decent track imo.


I think I dealt with the mastering thing in a way that I don t fully understand yet. and I m really eager to go deeper on this of course.
you re totally right, I think I left the attack more open and the compression just push transients harder.
I m realising now that a loud transient tends to darken the decay or the part that comes immediately after it.
plus it messes up the compressor. plus it takes your focus away.
so what is it needed here? faster attack, a transient shaper or a tape emulation which is not so sensitive to transients?
here is the question! how will I find the right tool for the transient hunting?
thanks for this perspective

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:49 pm 
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I really like the sounds in this tune, and the vibe in general, but as mentioend earlier in the thread, lot of the sounds seem to have really sharp transients.

There's a sound at 3:45 (the big delayed/verb sound) that I think it a little loud against the other sounds.

In answer to your question about transient shaping, there are loads available:

https://www.softube.com/index.php?id=shaper
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... _plus.html
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... elope.html
http://www.schaack-audio.com/ts.shtml

I think the tune is also a bit long but that, as with everything really, is subjective.

Nice soundscape though, look forward to hearing where you take it!

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:57 am 
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well yes I think i have to go back in the mix and chase my tail something I dont really enjoy. the best tracks I ve made were created literally on one go.
if I have to back and fix things usually it s not working. but again there is this big thing I have to educate myself to, and it s called transients. how much and when.
for now I m glad I m overcoming the usual problems like heavy bass or muddy lows etc.
thanks for the feedback it s really helping.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:20 pm 
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kostas wrote:
I think I dealt with the mastering thing in a way that I don t fully understand yet. and I m really eager to go deeper on this of course.
you re totally right, I think I left the attack more open and the compression just push transients harder.
I m realising now that a loud transient tends to darken the decay or the part that comes immediately after it.
plus it messes up the compressor. plus it takes your focus away.
so what is it needed here? faster attack, a transient shaper or a tape emulation which is not so sensitive to transients?
here is the question! how will I find the right tool for the transient hunting?
thanks for this perspective


In the first place it might be a good idea to deal with it at the source, your samples/synths envelopes.

Compression on individual tracks isn't always needed, so first try to think about why you'd want to compress it in the first place. Tape can smear the transients a bit, so when you want it loud a good tape emu could be a solution, or you could try clipping.

As for compression on the master channel, just try to make sure it doesn't cause ducking when it gets hit by something loud, so first the mix needs to be balanced correctly.
LTTV has written up a great tutorial which you can find in a sticky in the hole, his advice there is invaluable if you want to learn how to properly use compression on your mix, and he explains it (and understands it) better than I ever could tbh.

It's probably best not to get hung up on the numbers (RMS/LUFS/etc)if it means you have to 'fight' to
reach it, it will always hurt the sound when you have to smash it into a limiter or compressor to get it 'loud enough'. And when your mixing knowledge improves it should become easier naturally... Personally I never bother with it, but I'm not really trying to get things released. Maybe someone with a more 'pro'mindset could advise you in that regard.

If you want to try a transient designer you should try this free plugin by Sonic Anomaly, Transpire:
http://sonic.supermaailma.net/plugins
As good as some of the paid options and easy on the cpu. They make a couple other useful plugins by the way, worth checking out.

Another way to get some more presence in the attack phase is to give it a fast distortion envelope, or a smidge of parallel compression for exqample.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:52 am 
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I agree with the concept that you should not get hung on the numbers. I don t have any issue getting everything loud though,
my problem is finding the right balance on my attempt to home master(?) the track. meaning getting out freqs that are dominant
and allow the overall loudness go higher without distortion. but this way I found out that I m changing the balance of the whole track.
I guess i dont have the experience to do it in a proper way. thats normal.
but while attempting to do so , i m getting a different mindset when I ll be mixing right from the start.
mixing while have mastering in mind. and you cannot do it if you never try it to get a feeling of how it is.
maybe all this is just pointless with no use at all. the pros here i m sure they have the answer. guess i ll ask on the hole section!

one thing is for sure ,next track I ll avoid the phony HHats. I ll go back to a more techno feeling this attempt hm I dunno...and yes LTTV guides are very helpfull ,
as for sonic anomaly I think they re reaper specific or just PC. i m a mac user years now.
thanks for taking a listen !

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:17 pm 
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kostas wrote:
I agree with the concept that you should not get hung on the numbers. I don t have any issue getting everything loud though,
my problem is finding the right balance on my attempt to home master(?) the track. meaning getting out freqs that are dominant
and allow the overall loudness go higher without distortion. but this way I found out that I m changing the balance of the whole track.
I guess i dont have the experience to do it in a proper way. thats normal.
but while attempting to do so , i m getting a different mindset when I ll be mixing right from the start.
mixing while have mastering in mind. and you cannot do it if you never try it to get a feeling of how it is.
maybe all this is just pointless with no use at all. the pros here i m sure they have the answer. guess i ll ask on the hole section!

one thing is for sure ,next track I ll avoid the phony HHats. I ll go back to a more techno feeling this attempt hm I dunno...and yes LTTV guides are very helpfull ,
as for sonic anomaly I think they re reaper specific or just PC. i m a mac user years now.
thanks for taking a listen !


Some advice when it comes to doing a self-master. Once you feel like you've got the mix ready to a good point. Dont listen to the track for about a week. And i mean dont listen at all. Then when you come to master the track, you'll be listening with relatively fresh ears.

This is very important as like you said, you struggle with knowing what frequencies to balance out in the master etc.. The main point is mastering is getting a fresh perspective to finalise your track and so when you master you own work, you need to have this break period to freshen your ears up on the track and possibly hear any problems.


Essentially mixing is balancing the instruments and mastering is balancing frequencies. So if you hear problems in your mix of something being too loud, it can sometimes be as simple as turning it down in the mix and not a case of having to use loads of Eq and compression. Because essentially you make the audio more fragile every time you process it, so the better you can get it in the mix, the better results you'll get in the master.

Anyway, im sure you already know some of them points but its good to reiterate the obvious sometimes. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:47 am 
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kostas wrote:
this is a demo master meaning it is ''mastered'' by myself on the same system that it was created.
I m doing it so , getting the idea from Andre Crom's post about the proper way of submitting demos
and sounded like an interesting way of doing it (demo master around -10db rms)
so
I m really having trouble getting that thumb hitting on the kick. I guess this is the limitation of an entry level setup.
also maybe there is an imbalance on M/S signal.
at some points effects can sound overwhelming the track itself, I know))
any feedback would valued and appreciated.
thanks

https://soundcloud.com/kosh-mason/custom-needs2



The idea that you need to send masters to demo for labels is ridiculous.
IF a label does require it, then they are a shit label.
A good label will recognise a premaster, and sort good mastering out.
Don`t be misled by this poop, you do not need to master your music to send out demos.

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
The idea that you need to send masters to demo for labels is ridiculous.
IF a label does require it, then they are a shit label.
A good label will recognise a premaster, and sort good mastering out.
Don`t be misled by this poop, you do not need to master your music to send out demos.


Agreed with stated above. The most I do is throw a limiter on the master if its a bit quiet. Besides that, a good label can tell they got a good tune from the premaster =)


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:27 pm 
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RWise wrote:
Because essentially you make the audio more fragile every time you process it, so the better you can get it in the mix, the better results you'll get in the master.

Anyway, im sure you already know some of them points but its good to reiterate the obvious sometimes. :)

that. It is always comes to this. back to the basics whenever you feel lost or frustrated. as HowieRis said basic mistakes warrant basic advice!

Lost to the Void wrote:
The idea that you need to send masters to demo for labels is ridiculous.
IF a label does require it, then they are a shit label.
A good label will recognise a premaster, and sort good mastering out.
Don`t be misled by this poop, you do not need to master your music to send out demos.

Squill wrote:
Agreed with stated above. The most I do is throw a limiter on the master if its a bit quiet. Besides that, a good label can tell they got a good tune from the premaster =)

well, after a clear and straightforward statement like this I think there s no doubt about that. I was suspecting something similar but didn t really had clear this out in my head.
I m keeping the experience though, that if you have a basic knowledge of what mastering is (and try it by yourself) it is enriching your mixing skills. but don t send demos while "home mastering" your own stuff.
thank you for sharing this guys

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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:26 pm 
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I self-master my tracks if i send them to any DJs i know to play about. I always let them know its just a demo-master though.

For sending to labels, i agree with voidless. I just stick a limiter on the track so its not too quiet.


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 Post subject: Re: Custom Needs
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:43 pm 
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not really my style but the kick seems too high in the mix and the parts sounds all really sharp
i like the breakbeat parts but the arrangement is a little bit all over the place and too long in my opinion


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