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 Post subject: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:58 am 
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Gazza
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Hey guys, looking to maybe purchase a drum machine and always end up looking at the vermona DRM as it's in my budget range. Anyone used it and could comment more on what they are like in regards to making techno?

I was going to go for that or wait a good while and maybe go for the RYTM? I absolutely love the Jomox Alpha Base but don't think I could ever afford it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:04 pm 
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I don't have one but I was thinking about it a while ago. I have used samples though. It's a very quirky machine, the basic tone is 808-ish but way more out there. It's used a lot in minimal circles because it's very good for bleeps and bloops and zaps and generally weird little sounds. It doesn't really do the classic fat 909 sound so if you're after that I wouldn't get it as a primary drum machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:15 pm 
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clueless
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I think Root has one,, mk2 version so you can ask him some questions


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Alf Garnett

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:56 am
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I have one and would not recommend getting one. I love it though haha. It is a weird item and i'm sure others who have one will agree.
If this is your primary drum machine you will be frustrated and disappointed.
As you will read, this is the definition of a sweet spot machine.
Once you have one, you will find it hard to part with because it is fun and very immediate. But in terms of a workhorse main drummachine, I would definately go for a rytm.
I purchased a drm mk3 because i always wanted one for some reason. Maybe the look. I have played with a rytm many times and they are incredible but don't like the fact that everyone seems to have one and the elektron thing pisses me off. It's just too easy (yes i own an OT).
If you had a rytm and drm in front of you to trial. Rytm is far more satisfying. You would buy the rytm and say 'oh but the drm was interesting.'
As for sound....DRM is likened to the MFB stuff in my opinion. It is raw analogue waveform percussion. Kraftwerk-esque. Something you would achieve through basic modular drum patching.
Lends very well to processing though you must find the correct FX chain.
If you have a vermona drm sample pack, odds are you have the best kick already in there that you will get out of this machine. I find that you have very little range on the kick drum channel to find something satisfying. It is either boomy or clicky. When you hit the right settings and process, it can be devastating though.
The drum 1+2 channels are versatile but also can be used as a secondary kick to layer up. This gives best kick result in my opinion.
Multi channel differs a bit. Use for toms or perc. low rumble etc.
Hihats are basically noise with an envelope and filter. Has an annoying resonance but if you shorten decay can become quite snappy and good for fast 16ths.
Snare is nothing special. Like a cr78.
Clap is pretty nice. The verb on it is interesting and you can achieve some thick sounds. layer under a kick and it is satisfying.

In all, this box is a raw ingredients type of thing. It must be processed and you will find yourself dialling up the same parameter ranges time and time again.
It is good to have if just layering it into tracks or for specific elements such as hihats or kick.
I would say this is a classic. Sits somewhere near the 909 and 808.
Save for the rytm though if you want a machine that can cover a lot of ground and achieve heavyweight drums effortlessly.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Gazza
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Location: Scotland, Glasgow
buffered wrote:
I have one and would not recommend getting one. I love it though haha. It is a weird item and i'm sure others who have one will agree.
If this is your primary drum machine you will be frustrated and disappointed.
As you will read, this is the definition of a sweet spot machine.
Once you have one, you will find it hard to part with because it is fun and very immediate. But in terms of a workhorse main drummachine, I would definately go for a rytm.
I purchased a drm mk3 because i always wanted one for some reason. Maybe the look. I have played with a rytm many times and they are incredible but don't like the fact that everyone seems to have one and the elektron thing pisses me off. It's just too easy (yes i own an OT).
If you had a rytm and drm in front of you to trial. Rytm is far more satisfying. You would buy the rytm and say 'oh but the drm was interesting.'
As for sound....DRM is likened to the MFB stuff in my opinion. It is raw analogue waveform percussion. Kraftwerk-esque. Something you would achieve through basic modular drum patching.
Lends very well to processing though you must find the correct FX chain.
If you have a vermona drm sample pack, odds are you have the best kick already in there that you will get out of this machine. I find that you have very little range on the kick drum channel to find something satisfying. It is either boomy or clicky. When you hit the right settings and process, it can be devastating though.
The drum 1+2 channels are versatile but also can be used as a secondary kick to layer up. This gives best kick result in my opinion.
Multi channel differs a bit. Use for toms or perc. low rumble etc.
Hihats are basically noise with an envelope and filter. Has an annoying resonance but if you shorten decay can become quite snappy and good for fast 16ths.
Snare is nothing special. Like a cr78.
Clap is pretty nice. The verb on it is interesting and you can achieve some thick sounds. layer under a kick and it is satisfying.

In all, this box is a raw ingredients type of thing. It must be processed and you will find yourself dialling up the same parameter ranges time and time again.
It is good to have if just layering it into tracks or for specific elements such as hihats or kick.
I would say this is a classic. Sits somewhere near the 909 and 808.
Save for the rytm though if you want a machine that can cover a lot of ground and achieve heavyweight drums effortlessly.


Brillaint man great reply. Really appreciate it.

This would be my first drum machine, to sit alongside a deepmind 12, minibrute, and OT.
I really really want the RYTM but dont know if I can justify spending the amount of money when I just sit in my room jamming tunes :P

Is there any other drum machines that sit around the 400-700 price range? Ive had a look at the drumbrute but, I dont know, something I dont like about the sounds.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Alf Garnett

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:56 am
Posts: 176
Macca wrote:
buffered wrote:
Is there any other drum machines that sit around the 400-700 price range? Ive had a look at the drumbrute but, I dont know, something I dont like about the sounds.



with an OT, a robust simple drummachine pairs very well. I'd recommend a tr-8 or boutique tr09. mfb tanzbar or tanzmaus are good also.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:19 pm 
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clueless
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I have tanzmaus and i would recommend you if youre looking for classic style machine. It has weird workflow but once you learn it, its great.
Actually i dont even use all features it has,, using it only for "main beat", record some automation and thats it.
I dont like claps but you can use another one from sample1 and sample2 channels.
Also, they made some kind of update so now you can put your own samples in there which is great.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Gnasher
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I have one and i'd second what buffered wrote. It's raw and not easy to handle, like there are small borders between fucking great sounds and bad ones. I've had a love and hate relationship for a long time with this. In the meantime the love won. You really have to process it, where the single out per channel is wonderful. But even when processing, you'll have hard times learning it and finding your personal sweetspots. It can be very versatile, from classic rolandish to weird and squeaky, where all sounds can be very high class and powerful. I use it for kicks most of the time, but also for hihats, dubtechnois bleeps and blinks and more.. And i guess there is still a lot i can learn and achieve with this. Wouldn't recommend it as your first machine. Also you should think of that is has no sequencer, so you have to use another hardware or a daw.



In that price range, there are the ones recommendet here, i'd add digitakt. It always depends on what style your heading for and what workflow suits you.. Tell us more about you and we can help.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:09 am 
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athlete

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:56 pm
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Location: Amsterdam
Thought about getting one to go with my Cirklon. I liked the individual outputs and the simplicity - no patch saving etc.

But in the end I bought a rytm. I'm not completely happy with it, but I think I made the right choice. Rytm is a much more versatile machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:55 am 
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Diffraction
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Previous owner here...

I'd advice against it. It's not a huge sweetspot kinda machine. The kick is especially fiddly, as you can get some nice kicks out of it but turning a knob just a tiny bit can totally destroy it, which can be problematic for live shows or even just jamming.

It can produce all kinda weird-ish BOINGGGG and ZAPPPP kinda noises but it's not that great at making stomping techno sounds. It's more like an experimental machine rather than a club music machine. This might or might be not a good thing of course.


In the price range there are much better options IMO.

-Roland TR-8 is pretty good, especially when you overdrive the channels a bit on an analog mixer. The sequencer is killer, I've played live shows with it with no preprogrammed drum patterns, just improvise them on the spot. The expansion kits also make it quite versatile-ish + some of the FX are actually pretty useful, esp. the one that's kinda like a poor man's OTO Biscuit (lo-fi + filter).

- Elektron Digitakt. My next purchase, it's really nice and being a sampler, quite versatile.

- MFB Tanzmaus/Tanzbär Lite. Also good and very suitable for house and techno.

- Cyclone TT-606 and TT-78. Not that versatile but I'd get either of those instead the Vermona anyway.



I'd stay clear of the Roland Boutique drum machines. Very small and fiddly, which isn't as big a problem for synths but drum machines are jamming toys that you want to play with. I'd never take the Boutique drum machines to live gigs, too risky in a dark club and my troll-sized hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:57 am 
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clueless
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Also if you are considering Tanzmaus dont forget its also small as fuck, tiny knobs, althought they feel nice..


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:12 pm 
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skaghead

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:03 pm
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Location: Shrewsbury, UK
I've got one in my studio and have been using it a fair bit, I personally absolutely adore it. I think what other people have said about it not being a great primary drum machine are probably right, but if you've already got an Octatrack, why not just load that up with all the 'standard' techno stuff - 909/808 samples, and you've then got your bread and butter stuff covered without splashing anymore cash, which means you can get the weird but fun DRM to add the special sauce. I personally think of it as an uber wonk machine, something about it just invites weird grooves. Two thumbs up from me.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Gazza
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Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I think I might leave the vermona for now, I actually like the sound of it, but as my main and first drum machine I'd really like something a bit more techno-house sounding.

I have totally over looked the MFB drum machines, these actually sound pretty good to my ears.

I think I might go with the TR-8/ Tanzmaus or pay monthly on a RYTM. I cant make my mind up!

Cheers for all the respons guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:28 pm 
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subsekt
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Id do some research on the TR8 before you buy. Build is great.. layout & size are bang on.. & it sounds fantastic; but there are a few considerations:

4 physical outs.
Full outs over USB forces you to use the TR8 as your main soundcard. Check if you can use it alongside your current SC while tracking over usb in your DAW. I couldn't.. so that meant I couldn't record another synth when jamming. Annoying.
Patterns. Only A & B patterns available.. so maximum of 32 steps. No pattern chaining. Bogus.

I sold mine. Was really sorry to have to.. but the pattern thing really pissed me off.

Someday I'll get an Acidlab Detroit.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Gazza
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CrĂ­och wrote:
Id do some research on the TR8 before you buy. Build is great.. layout & size are bang on.. & it sounds fantastic; but there are a few considerations:

4 physical outs.
Full outs over USB forces you to use the TR8 as your main soundcard. Check if you can use it alongside your current SC while tracking over usb in your DAW. I couldn't.. so that meant I couldn't record another synth when jamming. Annoying.
Patterns. Only A & B patterns available.. so maximum of 32 steps. No pattern chaining. Bogus.

I sold mine. Was really sorry to have to.. but the pattern thing really pissed me off.

Someday I'll get an Acidlab Detroit.


Yeah that is kinda a put off for me. It sounds great, but for some reason I am more leaning towards a Tanzmaus. It sounds great to my ears.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:19 pm 
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CrĂ­och wrote:
Id do some research on the TR8 before you buy. Build is great.. layout & size are bang on.. & it sounds fantastic; but there are a few considerations:

4 physical outs.
Full outs over USB forces you to use the TR8 as your main soundcard. Check if you can use it alongside your current SC while tracking over usb in your DAW. I couldn't.. so that meant I couldn't record another synth when jamming. Annoying.
Patterns. Only A & B patterns available.. so maximum of 32 steps. No pattern chaining. Bogus.

I sold mine. Was really sorry to have to.. but the pattern thing really pissed me off.

Someday I'll get an Acidlab Detroit.


what you mean by pattern chaining? you can have 16 patterns and you can get them to loop play in order by hitting the first one you want and the last one you want, it will just loop around. i guess there's plenty of times thats not what you want though.

https://www.roland.com/us/support/knowledge_base/201920389/

there is the Ext In for getting another source while using the USB soundcard in the tr-8, but, maybe i'm being dumb, it only looks mono/i can only get it mono.


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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:37 pm 
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happy bastard
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In some sounddemo's I've heard the DRM has some resemblances with a drumbrute (for example hats).
It seems the drumbrute is being ditched quite a lot on the second hand market; I'm sure they are more sold then DRM's because of the cheap price.
I can tell you that the Vermona stuff has nice build quality; I'm having my doubts about that with Arturia stuff.
I had some kind of love/hate relationship with my DRM; the range of some pots is very wide (for example tuning of the kick).
The kick isn't the best sound in the DRM but when layered with another kick it can add something.
Eventually I ended up sampling nice sound coming from the DRM because (obviously) they can't be recalled.

I find the TR-8 is a great jam machine (and easier to recall sounds because of the lack of parameters) but when you want to use it with usb it's not the right machine. 4 outputs is kinda okay; it's enough to route the sounds that need to be apart from each other. Just don't expect the TR-8 to be a magic techno machine.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:25 pm 
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CrĂ­och wrote:
Id do some research on the TR8 before you buy. Build is great.. layout & size are bang on.. & it sounds fantastic; but there are a few considerations:

4 physical outs.
Full outs over USB forces you to use the TR8 as your main soundcard. Check if you can use it alongside your current SC while tracking over usb in your DAW. I couldn't.. so that meant I couldn't record another synth when jamming. Annoying.
Patterns. Only A & B patterns available.. so maximum of 32 steps. No pattern chaining. Bogus.

I sold mine. Was really sorry to have to.. but the pattern thing really pissed me off.

Someday I'll get an Acidlab Detroit.


Alright, I used to own one of these and, to echo the person above, you can pattern chain, you just mash the pattern you want then the next and it will chain up. I used to make 64 step patterns that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:23 pm 
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subsekt
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That's cool regarding patterns. I cant test as I don't have it anymore.. but i was never able to get it to work.

Anyway.. maybe I just needed to RTFM a bit more :)

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 Post subject: Re: Vermona DRM.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:26 pm 
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I'm wondering why no one mentinoned XBASE 888. Just got this one a week go and I'm quite stoked with the sound it can make, really powerful analog kickdrums, good analog toms, and sample based instruments. People say about bugs, but I haven't found anything major yet.


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