It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:07 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:03 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:54 pm
Posts: 9
I would also chip in for some compression vids for sure! And thanks hades and lotv!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:30 pm 
Offline
Onions
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:44 am
Posts: 63
It 's quite simple really,

If u really are in the blue if it comes to compression.

make a copy to audio, so u can look at it visually.
If it contains unwanted ''transients'' compress.

If it doesn 't, do fuck all exept some EQ or some wanted fx.
done like a pro, GG.
less is more, I bet u heard that alot of times already, it 's true.

After you trained your ears on hearing every unwanted transient (wich is verry easy).
It 's safe to say you already mastered compression, there 's nothing more to it.

but there 's always a BUT,
U can compress creatively, enough content in the other sections on the forums on that :D .
and on the master slap some shizzle with like a 1.3 ratio or something just for glue.
Don 't do it all over the place. bcus every plugin u put on a sound, it should be an upgrade, else you 're downgrading the sound with the plugin. (opinion)

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:50 am 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8825
Mimui wrote:

After you trained your ears on hearing every unwanted transient (wich is verry easy).
It 's safe to say you already mastered compression, there 's nothing more to it.


Erm yes there is, compression is about far more than transients.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline
broke

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Posts: 29
Nice to see a good old tech producer here, my respects Tom.

Talking about compression, whats the point about short attack times on drum bus? I mean, with short attack times (less than 10 ms) we would be creating more transient peaks instead of reducing it, wouldnt we?

I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:31 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8825
nacorcb wrote:

I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...


You are definitely missing something.
..
..
Your transients.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:39 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 8717
Lost to the Void wrote:
nacorcb wrote:

I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...


You are definitely missing something.
..
..
Your transients.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry mr nacorb, but that shit was just the funniest producer joke I saw in ages... :D

@Steve : but maybe he's only sending shit to the buss for maybe 5% ? :D

_________________
If you can't laugh with yourself, someone else should do it for you ! ;)



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:42 pm 
Offline
Interact. Don't Spam.

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:41 am
Posts: 23
nacorcb wrote:
Nice to see a good old tech producer here, my respects Tom.

Talking about compression, whats the point about short attack times on drum bus? I mean, with short attack times (less than 10 ms) we would be creating more transient peaks instead of reducing it, wouldnt we?

I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...


The attack portion of a compressor determines how fast the signal will be fully compressed (after exceeding the threshold of course). That's one thing that took me a while to understand, that it's always compressing as soon as it exceeds the threshold. A lot of people think it will take X ms before the signal gets compressed, that's false.

If you have a very fast/short attack time on your bus you'll generally reduce peaks/transients... So it's the other way around. Look at the stickies! Peace


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:03 pm 
Offline
broke

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Posts: 29
Lost to the Void wrote:
nacorcb wrote:

I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...


You are definitely missing something.
..
..
Your transients.


:D Good one!

Of course, I use 0 ms attack to control peaks and to flatten the drums a bit (without the kick). In fact I use two compressors, a transparent one for the peaks with instant attack (Kotelnikov, because I dont notice any distortion with it) and another one with a relaxed attack to glue things out.

My question is... using a compressor with a short attack time increases transients, doesnt it? Is that advisable to do in the drum bus?

Edit: forget it, I have just read previous post, I also thought attack time was time before starting compression instead time before reaching fully compression. Everything is clear now.

Edit 2: Mmm did some tests, this time using FabFilter Pro-C2, and using 10 ms attack increases transients (autogain on of course).

:roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:14 pm 
Offline
Supersacrifice

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Posts: 997
10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:00 pm 
Offline
broke

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Posts: 29
dubdub wrote:
10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.


So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means in drum buss (with no kick present, only percussions, hats, snares, etc) if the goal is to reduce total dynamic range, very fast or even 0 ms attack is needed. Transients are smashed of course, but loudness is increased.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:38 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8825
nacorcb wrote:
dubdub wrote:
10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.


So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means in drum buss (with no kick present, only percussions, hats, snares, etc) if the goal is to reduce total dynamic range, very fast or even 0 ms attack is needed. Transients are smashed of course, but loudness is increased.



Not exactly, it entirely depends on the settings, You can let the transients pop through, spread out the later portion of the percussion and then use makeup gain to equalise the two.
So you get snappy transients with an increased body.

My main question is what the hell do you have against transients?
Why is the only goal of compression to reduce dynamic range?
That's certainly not why I use compression on my drum bus.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:57 pm 
Offline
Supersacrifice

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Posts: 997
There is a lot of modern drum & bass that is super duper loud and still has pretty punchy transients. Not sure how they do it but I don't really care in any case because it just gets really fucking tiring on your ears super quick, I much prefer the older stuff that's still pretty banging but much softer sounding. Fittingly, Rod Modell of Deepchord has written an article about it yesterday. If you ignore the new age bits, he's speaking a lot of truth https://www.xlr8r.com/features/2017/11/ ... deepchord/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:02 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8825
Parallel compression will get you LOUD FUCKING DRUMS with plenty of movement and defined transients.
It's been a mainstay of break based dance music for about 20 years or more.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:16 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 8825
dubdub wrote:
There is a lot of modern drum & bass that is super duper loud and still has pretty punchy transients. Not sure how they do it but I don't really care in any case because it just gets really fucking tiring on your ears super quick, I much prefer the older stuff that's still pretty banging but much softer sounding. Fittingly, Rod Modell of Deepchord has written an article about it yesterday. If you ignore the new age bits, he's speaking a lot of truth https://www.xlr8r.com/features/2017/11/ ... deepchord/



Honestly that article just came across like an old man complaining about "these young kids and their new music, it all just sounds like noise, in my day there was warmth and blah blah".

There is room for everything, the soft and the hard.
More confrontational music tends to rise up during times of political unrest.
There will always be angry abrasive music rising up against......whatever....including old people moaning about soft music.

Things are actually more dynamic now than they were a few years back. Then prevalence of auto gain correction in media platforms and the rough standard of -13LUFS is meaning mastering engineers can get away with no longer sausaging music.
I have certainly noticed I can keep a better dynamic range with clients being more open to it.

My max would be -6RMS when the average in techno was almost -4.
Now I can keep things around -12LUFS, around -9 RMS and not be out of line with the general trend in dance music.

Things are getting more open in general.

_________________
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
Latest Release
Live PA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:01 pm 
Offline
broke

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Posts: 29
Lost to the Void wrote:
nacorcb wrote:
dubdub wrote:
10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.


So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means in drum buss (with no kick present, only percussions, hats, snares, etc) if the goal is to reduce total dynamic range, very fast or even 0 ms attack is needed. Transients are smashed of course, but loudness is increased.



Not exactly, it entirely depends on the settings, You can let the transients pop through, spread out the later portion of the percussion and then use makeup gain to equalise the two.
So you get snappy transients with an increased body.

My main question is what the hell do you have against transients?
Why is the only goal of compression to reduce dynamic range?
That's certainly not why I use compression on my drum bus.


You know, loudness obsession. Of course compression is more than that, I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:40 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 8717
nacorcb wrote:
I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).


how about working on the mix just a little more so your nasty peaks are simply no longer there ?

no offense, but at the moment you sound like some amateur cook who adds cream to every sauce he makes,
just because "it always makes things taste better" and it's the easy way out...

_________________
If you can't laugh with yourself, someone else should do it for you ! ;)



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:48 pm 
Offline
broke

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:25 pm
Posts: 29
Hades wrote:
nacorcb wrote:
I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).


how about working on the mix just a little more so your nasty peaks are simply no longer there ?

no offense, but at the moment you sound like some amateur cook who adds cream to every sauce he makes,
just because "it always makes things taste better" and it's the easy way out...


No offense, I am an amateur cook who add cream to every sauce I make :mrgreen:

Will change some things for the next time I start a new (crappy) track.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:15 pm 
Offline
Interchangeable
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 8717
nacorcb wrote:
No offense, I am an amateur cook who add cream to every sauce I make :mrgreen:
.



I was once there when it came to adding cream to every sauce I made. ;)
I've learned the errors of my ways along the years...

I never was a guy who used compression all the time though.
but that's just personal taste though. :)

_________________
If you can't laugh with yourself, someone else should do it for you ! ;)



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:22 pm 
Offline
You only live once
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:28 pm
Posts: 510
I use it A LOT. Like Steve said, it's a shaping device. You can add more punch or reduce it, add body or take it away, make something firmer (or looser with an expander) etc. It's really important that everything sounds like it's coming from the same source. If I hear a hard kick accompanied by a flabby hihat or clap I will cringe.

_________________
You have to systematically create confusion, it sets creativity free. Everything that is contradictory creates life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: How often do you guys use compression?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:22 am 
Offline
Supersacrifice

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 pm
Posts: 997
Lost to the Void wrote:
dubdub wrote:
There is a lot of modern drum & bass that is super duper loud and still has pretty punchy transients. Not sure how they do it but I don't really care in any case because it just gets really fucking tiring on your ears super quick, I much prefer the older stuff that's still pretty banging but much softer sounding. Fittingly, Rod Modell of Deepchord has written an article about it yesterday. If you ignore the new age bits, he's speaking a lot of truth https://www.xlr8r.com/features/2017/11/ ... deepchord/



Honestly that article just came across like an old man complaining about "these young kids and their new music, it all just sounds like noise, in my day there was warmth and blah blah".

There is room for everything, the soft and the hard.
More confrontational music tends to rise up during times of political unrest.
There will always be angry abrasive music rising up against......whatever....including old people moaning about soft music.

Things are actually more dynamic now than they were a few years back. Then prevalence of auto gain correction in media platforms and the rough standard of -13LUFS is meaning mastering engineers can get away with no longer sausaging music.
I have certainly noticed I can keep a better dynamic range with clients being more open to it.

My max would be -6RMS when the average in techno was almost -4.
Now I can keep things around -12LUFS, around -9 RMS and not be out of line with the general trend in dance music.

Things are getting more open in general.


I mean, it is "old man yells at cloud" but I think he has a point with how so many tracks these days have these really sharp transients made for club systems. And most of these aren't really particularly confrontational, they're totally affirming the status quo. You're obviously right with the average loudness but I don't think he was complainign about that specifically.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 108 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles v1.1 designed by CodeMiles Team -TemplatesDragon-.