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 Post subject: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Hi all,

I've recently had a go on a Arturia Drumbrute and a Roland TR-08 at a music exhibition at the weekend. I really enjoyed the more 'hands-on' approach to playing drums and I thought the Drumbrute seemed really good at being able to kind of 'plug in and play' and just kinda jam out ideas, play them in live etc but now a few days later I'm having a bit of trouble pulling the trigger on justifying whether it's worth buying one of them (or indeed seeking out something better).

I wonder how important truly analogue drums even are to me considering that there's people out there who have recorded (probably in way better quality than I ever could) the original drum machines that these machines tend to emulate. I mean, if it's just the ability to be able to jam things out live etc then is it really a sampler or even just a midi controller I'm in need of?

I suppose what I'm asking is the benefits of an analogue drum machine vs a sampler or a controller.

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:36 pm 
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That's completely subjective. One persons benefits of a hardware drum machine are going to another persons hinderance.

If you like hands on tweaking, or prefer the sound you can get say direct out of a tanzbar or something it could be for you. Or if you just enjoy making stuff with hardware then it will be good fun and if you like the raw sound or what you can do to it processing wise then all good. If your not up for all the wires or have the space, and your happy with using samples or whatever program/controller you use to make drums, then that's all good as well.

It just depends what your into as to whats an advantage or not is what I'm trying to say. You might find the on board sequencer of say, a machinedrum gets you results that you wouldn't get in your daw and that you like them, you might find the whole thing a pain the arse and just want a push and some drum samples.

You'll get all sorts of responses to such a broad question as everyone's got their own preferences. If it's the drumbrutes sound that you liked but not sure because of the investment factor, why not try and pick one up second hand. Keep it for a while and see how you get on with it and if it's for you, if not sell it at the price you got it or £20 less or something, look at it like renting it. Only way to find out if these things are for you is to give it a go yourself. If it's because you think you could save for something you consider better, do the same process. There's enough info online to make a broad judgement on sound and features in most case but you won't know properly until you try them out.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:40 pm 
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for me it was not worth it.
i bought a tr-8 last year, but ended up selling it after 3 months, because of the shitty integration into my daw. Now i think i could have kept it to use it as a midi controler. but for the sounds, i guess you can just get them for free on the internet

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Depends on which Drum Machine. Nothing beats Akai's Rythm Wolf machine...
:lol:

Seriously, I got the Analog Rytm and it's suits me perfect. Can't say that I really NEED it but its a fun machine and it sounds superb imo.

My neighbor just lent me his Jomox X-Base 09. It's shit. It's crap. I'd never buy that thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Mono-xID wrote:
My neighbor just lent me his Jomox X-Base 09. It's shit. It's crap. I'd never buy that thing.


why is it shit? why is it crap? why wouldn't you buy it?


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:33 pm 
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delphine wrote:
Mono-xID wrote:
My neighbor just lent me his Jomox X-Base 09. It's shit. It's crap. I'd never buy that thing.


why is it shit? why is it crap? why wouldn't you buy it?


Well, I'm used to the RYTM which is a breeze to program. I learned the machine in about 2 weeks. Together with the sample side of the RYTM I'm able to come up with nice layered drums and percussions.
Plus RYTM has onboard reverb,delay,distortion and compression. You can do an awful lot just on this box alone.

The Jomox is the exact opposite of my RYTM experience. Less options of soundsculpting.
I mean, lots of people gushing over Jomox kicks but honestly, the kicks I pull out of the Elektron sounds just better to me. It's shit to operate, sequencer is meh and it's just to fiddly and illogical to me. Plus it's ugly like a grandmas armpit.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:13 pm 
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It all depends how much h you like analog drum sounds.
I can't stand em myself.
There are of course hardware choices that do something other than typical analog malarky.

Advantages?
Buttons and shit, if that's what you need.
Live usage.
In some cases, simplicity.
And of course you can drill a hole in the side of it, take it out to the caravan of your choice, and fuck it.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:12 am 
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IMO - Fun. To me a hardware drum machine is the most immediate path to techno bliss. Yes I know you can get all the sounds and more on software, and with an appropriate controller you'd barely know the difference, but I love switching one on and going from 0-techno in like 5 seconds, and you can't do that even with a super ssd equipped computer. Also easy to put in a bag and take to a friends house. And if you get a good one its fucking banging, and provides a unique experience with foibles and tricks to learn and master. The most recent one to grip me is the Vermona DRM-1, not mine unfortunately, but currently in my studio, and what joy it is. Very simple, and yet it provides for hours of tweaking. Sounds like itself, not something else. Does need a controller to work it though, so probably not an ideal starting point! But I've been using it with a TR-8 and ESX, and such fun. So yeah, if I had one word to answer the question - fun. Final thought - analogue is good and all, but some of my favourite hardware drum machines are digital.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:56 am 
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Most people end up letting their hardware die on a table.

If you can't justify it, I wouldn't grab it. Like you said, others have recorded those machines with better gear anyways, just get some sample packs.

If you really like programming drums with a step sequencer there are controllers that can help you out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:07 pm 
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I love the sound of my TR-8 more than my Goldbaby sample packs. My Machinedrum (and the rest of my hardware) I love just drinking a beer, a whisky and jamming the fuck out for a few hours. Instant gratification, happy accidents and hundreds of sweet spots lost to the ether. Some things I'll record in the next day and then it becomes another track on the hard disk, but for me that's where the joy of hardware is. Same as the guitarist just riffing away on the end of the bed.

I know you could use controllers and set up go to scenarios in Ableton but I know a few people with a Push and they say they don't use as much as they thought they would. Horses for courses. And for what's it's worth, if I have a specific idea or here an element in a song that I want to somehow reproduce I'll got straight to software, drum sounds and everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Huck Farper wrote:
Most people end up letting their hardware die on a table.


:lol: :lol:
some even have more than one table to let their HW slowly die upon...

Huck Farper wrote:
If you can't justify it, I wouldn't grab it. Like you said, others have recorded those machines with better gear anyways, just get some sample packs.

If you really like programming drums with a step sequencer there are controllers that can help you out there.


I have used all sorts on my search for decent drums :
*analog drum machines (used to own an Airbase99, now got an Xbase888)
*samples
*drums programmed from scratch using SW drum computers
...

nowadays I use all kinds of stuff, but for kicks ended up mainly using a SW plugin.
So yeah, I guess it all depends what you are looking for and what your workflow is like.

But you'll never catch me saying "damn man, nothing can ever replace a proper analog drum computer"...
The people that say that just haven't been working with enough different types of gear,
because that's just total bullshit !! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Try a Push if you're using Ableton. There's no fucking around mapping shit and the drum workflow is great. A sequencer, bash the pads to play it live, nudge notes around, use samples or synths etc. You don't have to look at the screen at all.

I've got a machinedrum UWmk2 and its just a massive ballache to get samples onto it and recording it is such a workflow killer. I've never used it in a track. Maybe one day.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Planar wrote:
Try a Push if you're using Ableton. There's no fucking around mapping shit and the drum workflow is great. A sequencer, bash the pads to play it live, nudge notes around, use samples or synths etc. You don't have to look at the screen at all.

I've got a machinedrum UWmk2 and its just a massive ballache to get samples onto it and recording it is such a workflow killer. I've never used it in a track. Maybe one day.



Yeah push is great, I have the original one and will most likely get the v2 when the next one comes out and they drop in price a bit. Definitely get very different results instead of mousing things in. I really like the per step automation, can make fast edits that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:53 am 
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I like having a drum machine as it's tactile. You need to have a good desk or soundcard to get the most out of it. Especially while jamming with anything else you may have.

My main reason for enjoying using one is that it's an instrument. It sounds like itself & not like a collection of disparate .wavs. It has an identity.

Ok, you can use samples in some drum machines.. And there's also a chance of that same thing happening.. but my experience, stuff can potientially get a common sound with some tweaking.

That's the beauty of them.. going by how something sounds over how it looks on a grid or scope.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:13 am 
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They are incredibly fun and I really want a tr-09 because I love the 909 sound and drum machines are fun

But they're quite long to use in a production scenario as its just another layer of dicking about until you get a result, and by the time you've EQd it and all that you might as well of used a sample in the first place.

And then unless you want the "classic" analogue drum machine sound then they're kind of useless.

I think if you had a full on (or desire to build a full on) hardware set up with a mixing desk and rack FX etc etc then you might get more utility out of one, but in a typical computer ITB production scenario they're actually kind of redundant IMO.

But that doesn't stop me wanting a tr-09 to dick about on, they are fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 am 
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If you hate doing drums ITB then go for it.
Its really fun to play it along some riff you made.
Also its alot quicker to get some nice groove going, record some motion sequence..
I never used toms as sub and as second kick, then i bought myself a tanzmaus.
Also, i like the fact that im going to use only tanzmaus as drum source for some time, it definitely got its character which fits me nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am 
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It depends what you want, doesn't it. If you want your drums to be 'straight' sonically.. a DM could fit your music very well. If you do lots of post processing.. you may not be as into recording long stretches of loops.

If you can spare to have the cash tied up fur a While, there's no harm in buying something & then getting rid if you decide later.

Best thing that's happened to me recently is that my computer died. All of a sudden, I've had to use all the little machines together. Having boundaries, while experimenting, feels good. I'm fortunate to have had a plan B. The music sounds fine. It's simplified down to a couple of good ideas.. I think :)

Over the last few months, I haven't once walked away from making music, frustrated by the sound of the kick or that a riff sounds boring. We'll see if that continues once I'm back into ableton mode.

And..I'm not advocating OTB over ITB.. but I'm not surprised that there's a lower level of stress OTB. Personally speaking, it's more fun. I guess it may be somewhat easier to split between the creative & arrangement modes having 2 distinct phases.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:35 am 
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A hardware drum computer is only one piece of the puzzle.
Also the interface is very important; a nice format (not midget style) and no (or not much) menu diving helps out a lot in actually using and enjoying it.
I personally think you got to add some pedals, rack fx units and a mixer or a multichannel input soundcard to get the most out of them.
Otherwise just use some samples with a controller or a vst drumsynth.
It's a different quest for every person but if you are interested you should try it. I use hardware and software so I'm not a purist at all.
And don't forget the sync problems that you can have; you can have a mega studio but with bad syncing (especially in a hybrid setup) it can be a real pain in the ass... .
Currently I'm looking for a LXR to add to my setup because I do like drumcomputers.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Críoch wrote:
It depends what you want, doesn't it. If you want your drums to be 'straight' sonically.. a DM could fit your music very well. If you do lots of post processing.. you may not be as into recording long stretches of loops.

If you can spare to have the cash tied up fur a While, there's no harm in buying something & then getting rid if you decide later.

Best thing that's happened to me recently is that my computer died. All of a sudden, I've had to use all the little machines together. Having boundaries, while experimenting, feels good. I'm fortunate to have had a plan B. The music sounds fine. It's simplified down to a couple of good ideas.. I think :)

Over the last few months, I haven't once walked away from making music, frustrated by the sound of the kick or that a riff sounds boring. We'll see if that continues once I'm back into ableton mode.

And..I'm not advocating OTB over ITB.. but I'm not surprised that there's a lower level of stress OTB. Personally speaking, it's more fun. I guess it may be somewhat easier to split between the creative & arrangement modes having 2 distinct phases.


I don't believe you make music John.
I just think you have made all your gear into a sculpture of Meff Jills in your back garden.

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 Post subject: Re: Benefits of Using a Hardware Drum Machine?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Lol.. Yeah, it was the only way. The birds kept eating the mashed potato.

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