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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
I suppose everything can be looked at as political, it doesn't have to be party politics.
Nor does it have to be "telling people what to think"
It can be more about sharing ideas, thoughts and emotions. Comradery.
Trying to make a deeper connection with the audience. Have a conversation.

For me it's nice to get a response of "Yes, I feel that way too" rather than just "banging tune mate".
It makes all those dark nights alone raging against the world just a little more worth it.


^^ this 500%
I mean, I totally agree it's nice when you leave the interpretation of your track open,
so anyone can feel/think whatever they want with any of your tracks.
But just because you inject some words into your tracks, it doesn't mean you're telling people how to feel.

The only thing I'd ever wish for when I use spoken words in my tracks, is that it makes people think,
in some way. We need more people to stop whatever superficial thing it is that they're doing,
and to think about wherever the fuck it is that they're going, and where this planet is heading towards...

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:35 pm 
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chava wrote:
I can recommend a recent documentary on this "RAGE" by the way. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5adcIUuZE


honestly, I don't mean to sound rude,
but that preview in the link above was the dumbest thing I've seen in ages. :)
Just some kind of hardcore/gabber beats with a 303 while showing some strobo images.
It didn't say shit about the documentary, nor explain why it might actually contain some sort of political message...

Apparently it's Belgian, or at least has some sort of connection with Belgium (not sure why exactly).
I'm a bit of a film freak, but I'm not a connaisseur of documentaries,
and I have to admit I gave up on watching tons of films about 3 years ago,
so I'm a bit in the dark when it comes to anything really recent.

If you can give me any more info apart from what I find from a quick search,
I would very grateful. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:23 pm 
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On the positive side I think Rage is the film about this culture we are all participating in, with the most interesting aim. On the negative side I think it in the end it didn't succeed as its ambition ended up with a movie that could have been edited an hour shorter and gain a lot from that.

The movie tries to combine a lot of post-structural philosophy with the anarchistic culture of the rave. The main question of the film is how do we combine the idea of an anarchistic utopia with the aggresive drive of rave culture (it's main focus is acid house). That's a really interesting question and I really wish they had come up with a better answer, because it was quite refreshing not to hear Dimitri Hegemann tell for the 'nth time, how they discovered Tresor and opened it without a license.

There's a lot of great moments in the film but your head is definitely not capable of hearing anymore distorted kicks and acid lines after the end of the movie - and then there's these strange montage-of-attraction sequences, which are really fucking long. I think if it had cut down on some of those it would've helped the film!

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:12 pm 
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SubTPE wrote:
Having said this (and sorry for the already long reply)


you don't have to apologize for typing maybe 12 sentences.
This is subsekt.
People express their opinions, freely.
As long as you explain yourself properly and you don't act like a total cunt, I think anything can be discussed on subsekt.

There are times when you can't express yourself in just 140 characters.
Hell, I can almost never say anything halfway decent in less than 564733 characters, and I honestly doubt the rest of our planet can say something serious in 140 characters.
If people don't like the amount of words because their stupid fuckwit small attention span can't deal with too many words,
they can just scroll or sweep or whatever it is they want to do when their small brains get bored. 8-)


SubTPE wrote:

I know in reality things are different and many people don't give a shit. But, oh well... call me naive or idealist.

For many of you this is basic but actually many people don't give a royal crap. But I think there's solid ground here. We just didn't find the right way of exploring this.


yep, that's exactly the problem. Most people stopped caring looooooong time ago.
It's one of the biggest problems of our current society. People don't care about what happens in say, "somewhere in Africa".
Hell, they don't even care what happens in poor neighborhoods just a few blocks away from where they live
(unless the folks from that neighborhood start robbing their place and steal their tv, then it suddenly becomes a huge problem)
Selfishness and a general jaded feeling about "all of worlds problems" (sorry for the generalizations) is one the worst poisons on our planet at the moment.

SubTPE wrote:
P.s. a shoutout for all the accommodated artists that don't approach these subjects by trying to maintain neutrality in fear of losing fans.


FUCK NO !!!!!!!!!

so just because they fear they might lose a few fans,
fans that were RETARDED in the first place,
they chose not to express any opinions when say
*some guy gets almost beaten to death just because he's black or has any kind of "different" color of skin.
*some guy gets almost beaten to death just because he's gay.
*some people get laughed at, or are made fun of, just because they're not wearing the right clothes, or like the "cool" stuff or whatever.

Man, to any kind of artist who wants to remain silent just out of fear to lose those kinds of fans,
I say a big FUCK OFF !!


edit : in hindsight, I guess that was exactly what you tried to say as well.
There are times when I totally suck at reading irony on the net. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:18 am 
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you know, come to think of it.
We live in totally fucked up times, and most people still don't seem to care shit about anything.
I was dumb enough to put 2 kids on this planet
(though I love them to death and I still think it's the best thing I ever did),
so now I gotta pretend I like this life,
while trying not to be (be, forget get, it's far too late for "get" now) too cynical, because how the fuck can my kids otherwise ever grow up and try to be happy, right ?

What's the meaning of life ?
I saw Leonard Cohen a few times, and once he said (with his lovely low voice) something like :
"You know, I spent a lot of years studying the meaning of life. Looking at all the big questions, religion, philosophy,...
This is what I came up with."
And then he looked at his background singers just at the moment when they went "doo-dam-dam-dam, de-doo-dam-dam" (this was during Tower Of Song)
Hilarious moment, but so painfully true.

I think if we should try anything with our lives, in these times, it's trying our best to raise more awareness on our planet for everything that's still going horribly wrong.
And I hate standing on a fence somewhere, I totally hate rally's or demonstrations.
So if we can try to inject our music with some deeper meaning once in a while, making people think instead of having them check their FB likes or making fucking selfies, or hell : writing 3rd person biographies about themselves for their fucking SC page (the stupid douchebags), then why the fuck not ?

I'm having a Rusty Cohl day here.
Just carry on...

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:04 am 
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Hades wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I get that music is escapism, and that techno and house is basically taking a vacation for 8hrs while you melt brain cells, but it doesn't mean that the odd track here and there can't have some sort of message.


yep, if it's the odd track here or there,
I don't think you risk of being called some kind of "preacher".


Music is not escapism unless that is what you want from it. And please don't scorn techno for having 'no message', I can see how you all want to become Bono or Thom Yorke and inject some heartfelt 'meaning' into all the debauchery of your 909 workouts, but if you can't convey the feeling of meaning without resorting to vocals you might consider yourself a failed musician.

Techno was the most revolutionary music movement since the 60s (and that is including punk and hiphop) exactly because if was first and foremost INSTRUMENTAL dance music for a large non-secterian audience.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:19 am 
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Hades wrote:
you know, come to think of it.
We live in totally fucked up times, and most people still don't seem to care shit about anything.
I was dumb enough to put 2 kids on this planet
(though I love them to death and I still think it's the best thing I ever did),
so now I gotta pretend I like this life,
while trying not to be (be, forget get, it's far too late for "get" now) too cynical, because how the fuck can my kids otherwise ever grow up and try to be happy, right ?

I think if we should try anything with our lives, in these times, it's trying our best to raise more awareness on our planet for everything that's still going horribly wrong.
And I hate standing on a fence somewhere, I totally hate rally's or demonstrations.
So if we can try to inject our music with some deeper meaning once in a while, making people think instead of having them check their FB likes or making fucking selfies, or hell : writing 3rd person biographies about themselves for their fucking SC page (the stupid douchebags), then why the fuck not ?

I'm having a Rusty Cohl day here.
Just carry on...


The world is probably less fucked up now that it has ever been, unless you compare it to some non-existant utopia.
Something is changing though and it's hard to pinpoint what exactly. But as long as we don't face a immediate WW3 I consider myself lucky. And hey, it's not that I don't understand your sentiments, I recently re-watched True Detective and no doubt Rusty Cohle is portayed as the hero despite his nihilism.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:22 am 
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Amøbe wrote:
There's a lot of great moments in the film but your head is definitely not capable of hearing anymore distorted kicks and acid lines after the end of the movie


I had the opposite reaction and went home and got on a Drop Bass Network (another label that semi-embodied the TAZ ethos) hard-acid trip.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:42 pm 
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winston wrote:
they would shut down fabric because it is a corporate brand and would force you to open your house up so that people from other towns can come and have a shot on your decks, playing your records and not putting them back in the sleeves. if you object you get sent to a gulag somewhere outside middlesborough.
what a load of shit.


That's quite a bit of "triggered butthurt" for a random C&P floating around various production pages.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:03 pm 
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chava wrote:
Hades wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I get that music is escapism, and that techno and house is basically taking a vacation for 8hrs while you melt brain cells, but it doesn't mean that the odd track here and there can't have some sort of message.


yep, if it's the odd track here or there,
I don't think you risk of being called some kind of "preacher".


Music is not escapism unless that is what you want from it. And please don't scorn techno for having 'no message', I can see how you all want to become Bono or Thom Yorke and inject some heartfelt 'meaning' into all the debauchery of your 909 workouts, but if you can't convey the feeling of meaning without resorting to vocals you might consider yourself a failed musician.

Techno was the most revolutionary music movement since the 60s (and that is including punk and hiphop) exactly because if was first and foremost INSTRUMENTAL dance music for a large non-secterian audience.


Where the fuck did I say techno is only escapism ? (just talking about my own words here)

Damn mate, I never even use a 909.
I'm trying to advocate for making a track here or there that might make people think.
I hate fucking Bono, and I can only stand Thom Yorke in limited amounts.

A lot of classical music genres are instrumental, didn't make them revolutionary for it.

Quote:
if you can't convey the feeling of meaning without resorting to vocals you might consider yourself a failed musician.


You can perfectly put feelings in your tracks without words, that is not the point I'm trying to make nor the point that Jordanneke or others here are trying to make (I think). But you can't inject some kind of political message into your tracks without words. It's pretty damn hard to make people think about specific subjects without using words.
Or how else would you make a track and make people for example think about how lesbians are getting treated with prejudices, just to name an example. Tell me how you would try and bring that message across in your instrumental music ?

Also, I'd like to hear some of your music, any links ?

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:15 pm 
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chava wrote:
Hades wrote:
I'm having a Rusty Cohl day here.
Just carry on...


The world is probably less fucked up now that it has ever been, unless you compare it to some non-existant utopia.
Something is changing though and it's hard to pinpoint what exactly. But as long as we don't face a immediate WW3 I consider myself lucky. And hey, it's not that I don't understand your sentiments, I recently re-watched True Detective and no doubt Rusty Cohle is portayed as the hero despite his nihilism.


that's what my mrs always tries to tell me on my shit days :
"but the world is far less worse off today than it was say 100 years ago."
Perhaps in some cases, but we sure hadn't fucked up our planet back then.
That's kind of a major bummer that you can't deny nowadays...
Or what, the plan is to just all jump into a giant spaceship or 5 and happily sail away to....
urm... where exactly ?
I wonder what I'm gonna tell my kids when they ask me about that stuff.

I think you misunderstand a person like Rusty Cohle if you just call him a nihilist.
It's like eternal optimists or, a lot worse, religious people who can't seem to grasp that those who look at things in a less cheery spirit don't do this out of some wonderful bad habit, as if they just enjoy being a bummer for the general party atmosphere.
People aren't born that way, they become that way, and I'm pretty sure most people do everything they can to fight that process.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:43 pm 
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innovine wrote:
"international" is top notch too, only I couldn't find a link to the full thing. Worth a see if you can track it down!!


yep, used to be one of my favorites for years.
It's like the whole documentary is one long music video or something,
showing us "it takes all kinds"...
raising questions, but never giving answers.

Maybe that's the best way to try and spread a certain "political" awareness.
Always try to make people think by asking them questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 pm 
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Hades wrote:

You can perfectly put feelings in your tracks without words, that is not the point I'm trying to make nor the point that Jordanneke or others here are trying to make (I think). But you can't inject some kind of political message into your tracks without words. It's pretty damn hard to make people think about specific subjects without using words.
Or how else would you make a track and make people for example think about how lesbians are getting treated with prejudices, just to name an example. Tell me how you would try and bring that message across in your instrumental music ?

Also, I'd like to hear some of your music, any links ?


Working on it, eh. Not trying to make people think, though. I don't believe you deliberately can do that through art, art is not about "thinking".
And lots of instrumental music - including techno - made me change my view of myself and the world around me. But such can not be attributed solely to the music itself, context matters and ones own attitude matter. But the best instrumental msusic (also vocal, but not necessarily because of the lyrics) change your general perceptions, though rarely on specific political matters. And why should it? It does not seems to be arts natural domain in my best estimation.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Hades wrote:

"but the world is far less worse off today than it was say 100 years ago."
Perhaps in some cases, but we sure hadn't fucked up our planet back then.
That's kind of a major bummer that you can't deny nowadays...


I am not really the optimist type, but I kind of feel we will fix the planet somehow.

Hades wrote:
People aren't born that way, they become that way, and I'm pretty sure most people do everything they can to fight that process.


Agreed on that, although people aren't born eternal optimists either.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:59 am 
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Hades wrote:
chava wrote:
I can recommend a recent documentary on this "RAGE" by the way. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5adcIUuZE



If you can give me any more info apart from what I find from a quick search,
I would very grateful. :)


I'll repost my earlier question.
Any info on this mr chava ?

thx

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:02 am 
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Jacques Attali - Noise: The Political Economy of Music.

Autechre's Anti EP is a superlative example of music and politics in opposition of the 1994 Criminal Justice Bill in the UK becoming an Act of law, specifically section V, subsection 63, titled "Powers in relation to raves", tailored to empower the filth to piut an end to massive outside raves, where ""music" includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats." Flutter has no "succession of repetitve beats": every measure is rhythmically unique, allowing it to be played.

A new (affordable) paperback edition of Kodwo Eshun's More Brilliant Than the Sun will be released on October 10th.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
I suppose everything can be looked at as political, it doesn't have to be party politics.
Nor does it have to be "telling people what to think"
It can be more about sharing ideas, thoughts and emotions. Comradery.
Trying to make a deeper connection with the audience. Have a conversation.

For me it's nice to get a response of "Yes, I feel that way too" rather than just "banging tune mate".
It makes all those dark nights alone raging against the world just a little more worth it.


^^ this 500%
I mean, I totally agree it's nice when you leave the interpretation of your track open,
so anyone can feel/think whatever they want with any of your tracks.
But just because you inject some words into your tracks, it doesn't mean you're telling people how to feel.

The only thing I'd ever wish for when I use spoken words in my tracks, is that it makes people think,
in some way. We need more people to stop whatever superficial thing it is that they're doing,
and to think about wherever the fuck it is that they're going, and where this planet is heading towards...


Well, I don`t think of it as telling people how to feel, but how you feel.
One of the things that has turned me away from techno is that it is too open to interpretation and not defined enough to actually say anything at all, so I try to say "something" at least. But it`s never about telling people what to think, it`s the beginning of a conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:12 pm 
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sorta skimmed the thread but anyway:
personally I feel more like I am injecting music into politics, if you get what I mean…
98% of whatever sonic stuff I've made over the years, techno, noise, ambient, even the odd juke/ghettotech sketch has been the result of some political frustration that particular day

I think people looking to do "politics" in techno music and related genres often start at the wrong end. It's more about the affective, emotional component of politics – that, or theoretical or philosophical themes rather than "issues". Like anger, nostalgia, or perhaps this idea of "hauntology"…

Anywho, I think the "politics of techno" could be more along the lines of exploring futurisms or dystopias, in line with the afrofuturism of UR that was discussed above. Personally I read a lot of accelerationist theory atm, which drives really about everything I do
Also as a parenthesis I think Kraftwerk were the first postmodernists. It is so seeped in irony but most people don't seem to get that. Very political in its own way. Adding to that I've read analysis of how DJ Rashad's (now deceased footwork boss-peep) work with vocal samples really is a play on pop music and alienation (everyday of my life–everyday of my lie). A stretch perhaps – also perhaps outside the interests of this particular subculture of electronic music but nonetheless interesting. My take from that is really that you don't need to overthink it or be too serious most of the time. Politics can be playful and fun…
Further afield still are the American pseudo–doom–rockers Master Musicians of Bukkake (yes really) that label themselves "postcolonialcore" and their Swedish curveball soulmates Goat… all voodoo and cultural appropriation in a mess that is clearly political by virtue of its aesthetics but still very, very opaque…
I have quite a few underground rock music friends that approach things in this manner with results that are both politically and musically interesting … is that not the point, after all – to have themes and the way they are expressed informing one another, to make for a both compelling and interesting experience? The medium is the message and so on and so forth

I rarely see "techno" (in the orthodox sense anyway) pushing the envelope on this today, to be honest…

I sort of want to get more in-depth with this later with a dedicated thread on "aesthetic overlap"… I'll see if I can't post something up (because this is part of a conversation that interests me a lot…)

cheers,
new guy

EDIT:

Amøbe wrote:
Well for the depressing side of utopia, I can recommend Mark Fisher's - R.I.P. - Capitalist Realism, which in short is about the depressing state of being anti-capitalistic and then being forced to see that the world will not accept any other systems after the crisis in '07 (where if you were really idealistic you could've believed that the banks would end up paying for beeing too greedy, and we would then figure out a new and more social society)

/.../

And Deleuze is definitely not something you read to pass the time, but I find him quite rewarding to dwelve into.


!!!

Capitalist Realism (read just last month) is really a gem and so is Fishers blog k-punk. Stylistically impeccable.
My current mind-fuel is the concept of the "Antropocene" and its derived&related conversations (chthulucene, capitalocene – silly as they may seem) and the related but separate idea of accelerationism…
Deleuze (& Guattari) really is a cornerstone in the conversation around electronic music – do dwelve into. (But don't take it so seriously you name your label after one of his books… No seriously don't)


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:16 pm 
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hyperloop wrote:
Also as a parenthesis I think Kraftwerk were the first postmodernists. It is so seeped in irony but most people don't seem to get that.


;)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:01 am 
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hyperloop wrote:
Also as a parenthesis I think Kraftwerk were the first postmodernists. It is so seeped in irony but most people don't seem to get that. Very political in its own way.


How do you see this? I always viewed Kraftwerk as arch-modernists in some way. I mean their music has almost classical elements. They certainly have an ironic distance and the robots thing are obviously tongue-in-cheek (but not a joke either), but I don't find it in any way nihilist or sarcastic in any way.

hyperloop wrote:
I rarely see "techno" (in the orthodox sense anyway) pushing the envelope on this today, to be honest…


Techno sadly has stopped pushed nothing but the red on the mixer for some time now. The real interesting stuff's at the fringes.


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