Master Buss Processing

Electronic Music Production // Dark Arts
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sergiobR1
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by sergiobR1 »

arkos wrote:This forum is the best thing about the internet. People are charging money for advice half as good as what you can learn here. Much appreciated.
+1 :ugeek:

Everything I know now is in debt with this forum.
I remember a thread where mattias gave us the walkthrough of his super bassline process.
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Sasemoi
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by Sasemoi »

sergiobR1 wrote:
arkos wrote:This forum is the best thing about the internet. People are charging money for advice half as good as what you can learn here. Much appreciated.
+1 :ugeek:

Everything I know now is in debt with this forum.
I remember a thread where mattias gave us the walkthrough of his super bassline process.
Pure gold.
Time to pay your debt with a link :D

The_G
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by The_G »

Lost to the Void wrote:
Sasemoi wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: That`s not really what mastering is about.
Mastering is about being invisible and true to the artists work as much as possible.
Of course if a certain tone or sheen is requested then it can be done, but otherwise you are there to appear to not be there.
I agree up to a certain point , but imo staying true to the artist might just be that little extra (with or without their request). in the end there are no rules , only the ones that keep you fed and asleep at night (or day)
In mastering there are quite a few rules actually.
I`m not sure you fully understand the process.

I think everyone in to mastering goes through the same process.
You start off thinking "If I do THIS it will make the music better"
Then when you really learn how to master, you finally come to a point where you realise it`s not about "better" it`s about making the artists vision clearer.
Yours is not the place for subjective ego driven decisions. You are there to be objective, to get the music out of the way of itself so it can be, very clearly, what it is. And of course to meet the technical requirements of the final medium.
It takes a long time to get to that place.
When you "add" you are not being objective, so there is no adding a little extra, unless the artist wants it.
All actions in mastering are destructive, the less action you can take to end up with a translatable piece of work, the better.
In some cases your job is simply to say "this is fine as it is".
As a client, I'm good with the mastering engineer making some creative processing decisions (like using tape saturation), provided:

1. We've discussed it beforehand and I've communicated that I'm good with that kind of experimentation
2. It fits whatever vision is inherent to the music and/or the approach that I've articulated in discussions with the engineer (e.g. "I want a vintage feel")
3. The engineer is willing to re-master if I don't like the end result of the experimentation.

What I would not want is to just hand over some tracks, expecting very transparent processes, and end up with a lot of coloration that doesn't fit my vision of what the song sound be like.

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msl
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by msl »

Yeah what Voidloss is getting at is its not the ME's job to be experimenting creativly, and most importantly neither is he getting paid to experiment (which by nature takes time, trial and error) esp at €15-20 a track! Otherwise your going into mixing or stem mixing territory.

Now if your using an ME with nice analog chains then by default you will get some warmth and saturation just from running the audio through the gear.



The_G wrote:
Sasemoi wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote: That`s not really what mastering is about.
Mastering is about being invisible and true to the artists work as much as possible.
Of course if a certain tone or sheen is requested then it can be done, but otherwise you are there to appear to not be there.
I agree up to a certain point , but imo staying true to the artist might just be that little extra (with or without their request). in the end there are no rules , only the ones that keep you fed and asleep at night (or day)

As a client, I'm good with the mastering engineer making some creative processing decisions (like using tape saturation), provided:

1. We've discussed it beforehand and I've communicated that I'm good with that kind of experimentation
2. It fits whatever vision is inherent to the music and/or the approach that I've articulated in discussions with the engineer (e.g. "I want a vintage feel")
3. The engineer is willing to re-master if I don't like the end result of the experimentation.

What I would not want is to just hand over some tracks, expecting very transparent processes, and end up with a lot of coloration that doesn't fit my vision of what the song sound be like.
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Lost to the Void
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by Lost to the Void »

msl wrote: Now if your using an ME with nice analog chains then by default you will get some warmth and saturation just from running the audio through the gear.
Even then that's more mastering myth than reality. Most mastering studios are set up for clarity in the signal path. And the gear mostly tends to be class a and clean (as in my studio everything is mastering grade bar some boxes there for colour and grit) with maybe one of two bits of kit in the rack to add colour should it need to be switched in.
Most of "warmth" will come from the EQ process of readdressing balance. It will be making more present the warmth that is already in the mix. Mastering is 80% EQ work.
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dubdub
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by dubdub »

In any case - I get it for bands that aren't so into the technical stuff, but with all the amazing analog-modelled plugins out there now, I don't see why you wouldn't just do any saturation colouring by yourself (and dial it in exactly to your liking) as an electronic music producer.

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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by The_G »

msl wrote:Yeah what Voidloss is getting at is its not the ME's job to be experimenting creativly, and most importantly neither is he getting paid to experiment (which by nature takes time, trial and error) esp at €15-20 a track! Otherwise your going into mixing or stem mixing territory.

Now if your using an ME with nice analog chains then by default you will get some warmth and saturation just from running the audio through the gear.
I know what his point was--it's not the ME's place to make creative decisions, but to bring out the "soul and shine" of the producer's music, and generally be as transparent as possible. *My* point was, as a client, you may want some coloration. For example, most of my music has a retro 80s feel, so it makes sense for me to emulate elements of production from that era. If I contract an ME who (a) has gear that can emphasize or enhance that feel and (b) is someone I have a good rapport with, I *may* ask him/her to use that gear in ways that *do* fit my vision but also introduce some coloration.

This is different from the above comment (can't remember who wrote it) that ME's *should* use tape saturation, etc. In this case it's directed by the producer, not per se a creative decision from the ME.

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Mattias
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by Mattias »

Exactly, what you do is the key to all successful collaborations; communication. :)
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juxtpose
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by juxtpose »

I like the UAD ampex tape emu on the master buss, same thing as using satin, hit it right and get a bit more headroom, subtle saturation, glue and a bit more audible bass. If Im lazy I'll try the maag EQ to lift mids or highs, the air control on that is quite interesting or the uad pultec ep1a for more 12k or 30 hz subs. I found once I've started doing too much eq'ing on the master buss its because I've cooked the mix and have to start from scratch

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Master Buss Processing

Post by Lost to the Void »

The_G wrote:
msl wrote:Yeah what Voidloss is getting at is its not the ME's job to be experimenting creativly, and most importantly neither is he getting paid to experiment (which by nature takes time, trial and error) esp at €15-20 a track! Otherwise your going into mixing or stem mixing territory.

Now if your using an ME with nice analog chains then by default you will get some warmth and saturation just from running the audio through the gear.
I know what his point was--it's not the ME's place to make creative decisions, but to bring out the "soul and shine" of the producer's music, and generally be as transparent as possible. *My* point was, as a client, you may want some coloration. For example, most of my music has a retro 80s feel, so it makes sense for me to emulate elements of production from that era. If I contract an ME who (a) has gear that can emphasize or enhance that feel and (b) is someone I have a good rapport with, I *may* ask him/her to use that gear in ways that *do* fit my vision but also introduce some coloration.

This is different from the above comment (can't remember who wrote it) that ME's *should* use tape saturation, etc. In this case it's directed by the producer, not per se a creative decision from the ME.
Yeah exactly, those kind of choices come from a dialogue between then producer and engineer.
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