Hardware sequencers (Sequentix Cirklon)

[terryfalafel]

I am considering whether to stop using Cubase as a sequencer and instead buy a hardware sequencer. Something like Sequentix Cirklon. I'll still use Cubase, but more like a multitrack recorder than for sequencing. I am bored of clicking onscreen, especially for drum programming, and it feels like something Cirklon-like might be a breath of fresh air and perhaps inspirational. I have a MAQ16/3 which is amazing for loopy, machine-y techno riffs but isn't the thing for drum programming at all...

Does anyone have a Cirklon? I'm curious about a few things. There's an old thread where it's discussed a bit but the bloke who actually owned one hasn't been on the forum for a year so I don't think he'll be replying...

Any thoughts on Cirklons / ideas about hardware sequencers in general / posts about gorilla rape support groups are more than welcome.

[buffered]

octatracks are great for drums. If you intend to record output into cubase and then arrange from there, this is a very good combination.
OT is like a swiss army knife in terms of sequencing midi and audio manipulation.

[kirkwoodwest]

I've used a cirklon at my friends studio and i want one. they are amazingly fun to use.

I did pick up a squarp pyramid but I wouldn't use it for sequencing drums. I prefer it over the octatrack for sequencing notes tho.

[Alume]

I thought planar had/has one.

You can ask him i guess

[Markus Wolf]

I've used a cirklon at my friends studio and i want one. they are amazingly fun to use.

I did pick up a squarp pyramid but I wouldn't use it for sequencing drums. I prefer it over the octatrack for sequencing notes tho.

I dont mean to derail the thread but how are you liking squarp sequencer. Ive seen a demo video looks interesting and at the time the price seemed decent. Build quality? Ease of use?

Thanks

[Planar]

I thought planar had/has one.

You can ask him i guess

Nope. I couldn't care less about hardware.

[rsntr]

I've never used a Cirklon but for that price I would also have a closer look at the Octatrack which I own. It has a great sequencer plus sampling capabilities etc. The Cirklon beats the Octatrack if you want to use CV at some point but if its just for sequencing via MIDI the Octatrack is definitely worth checking out in comparison to the Cirklon.

[terryfalafel]

But Octatrack is only 8 channels of sequencing? And can it do chords / melodies etc or is it just for drum programming?

I know there's the argument about limitations forcing you to be more creative, but an 8 track sequencer seems pretty limited in the current market...

[Alume]

I thought planar had/has one.

You can ask him i guess

Nope. I couldn't care less about hardware.

My mind is decaying, a bit sooner than expected though.

[helloitsmeagain]

Yeah, I have one. It can do straight sequencing, no issues. very simple to implement that. It gets interesting with you start using the logic functionality. It's pretty deep but a simple example would be to set 2 tracks up. The first has a stream of note values plugged in and sends them to an instrument. The second has a different set of note values, but is not active. Now you can set up logic to grab values from the second track, but only if specified conditions are met. How you'd do that is use functionality called Aux values and Accumulators. Accumulators adjust aux values. You can then specify that if an Aux value is above (or below) a certain point, it would replace the note value in Track 1, on a specified step, grabbing a value from the second track. Imagine then having 16 steps on track 1, but having say 9 on track 2. It's pretty simple to set up variations in a pattern this way. It's not just note values you can adjust. All CC# can be adjusted in this way.

If you have specific questions, throw them out and I'll try answer them.

[innovine]

I've been waiting in the queue for a cirklon for 11 months, and am expecting to get it within the next month or two! Whoohoo! Gonna be great

[innovine]

If you have specific questions, throw them out and I'll try answer them.

can you insert PC and cc messages at the start of a pattern, which is only emitted once, the first time the pattern plays? it should be ignored when the pattern repeats. Is this a scenes 'track value'?

can you shift the position of one note in a p3 pattern to a different step easily?

if I loop the midi on itself can I alter the loop points in a pattern and be recording the results to a different track? can I retrigger a pattern to restart, or to play from a particular step (quantized) by bashing onethe keys, and recording the results to another track?

with the fixing and labelling of rows in a ck pattern, how is this setup stored, is it specific to the instrument on the track, the track itself, the scene or something else?

is the instrument assigned to a track global, or part of a scene?

are the keys very loud and clicky, so its annoying?

do the functions for looping an individual bar, reverse play direction, ping-pong etc work on ck tracks?

how is CC data editing performed? is there a function to thin cc data?

can one midi track (with a ck pattern) accept midi from two midi inputs simultaneously?

can it record and play back nrpn data?

can you set up the encoders so that during playback of patterns/scenes one encoder sends a particular cc on one track, and the next encoder sends a different cc on a different track? If yes, can I easily switch between multiple such setups?


None of these are showstoppers for me, but the more yes answers the more smiles on my face. Sorry if some of these are answered in the manual, I've tried reading it but it's hard to imagine all the architecture and possibilities without actually having the thing.

[terryfalafel]

Thanks for the input helloitsmeagain. I thought you'd gone forever since you hadn't logged in since the beginning of last year.

Do you mostly use the Cirklon for sequencing a single song, or have you ever tried creating more of a live set with multiple songs all stitched together? I understand that using P3 mode it's easier to use it for more of a live set type of thing, but the normal Cirklon mode is just for one song at a time.

If you've done anything more like a live set, have you found many limitations or irritations?

[helloitsmeagain]

can you insert a PC or cc msg at the start of a pattern, which is only emitted once, the foirst time the pattern plays? it should be ignored when the pattern repeats

Yes. You could set it to only happen if an accumulator is lower than X. On the next step, increase the accumulators value so it doesn't = X on the next loop.

can you shift the position of one note in a p3 pattern to a different step easily?

Do you mean to do this on the fly? of while the sequencer is stopped. To do it while the unit is not playing is super simple. On the fly, you can adjust last step values in a bar

if I loop the midi on itself can I alter the loop points in a pattern and be recording the results to a different track?

You can not record these kinds of changes directly into another track. You can of course record the midi output and then load the midi file in the cirklon

can I retrigger a pattern to restart, or to play from a particular step (quantized) by bashing onethe keys, and recording the results to another track?

Not sure i understand the first part of this question. The second part i hopefully answered above

can each line in a ck pattern be assigned a different midi note, eg bottom line is 38, next line up is 36, next line up is 44... this to reproduce gm midi drum score so it looks like proper drum notation on a staff

Yes, you insert the notes/numbers you want, but they follow the alphabetical/numerical order

is the instrument assigned to a track global, or part of a scene?

Hmm, i never tried to swop an instrument. Just use the pattern with a new instrument. You have 64 tracks...

are the keys very loud and clicky, so its annoying?

Subjective. I love the keys

None of these are showstoppers for me, but the more yes answers the more smiles on my face

[helloitsmeagain]

yeah, i still lurk on occasion, just not making techno anymore. I been learning music theory and getting into making deeper, jazzier house. That had always been my passion anyway.

Do you mostly use the Cirklon for sequencing a single song, or have you ever tried creating more of a live set with multiple songs all stitched together?

I'm only using it in a studio.

I understand that using P3 mode it's easier to use it for more of a live set type of thing, but the normal Cirklon mode is just for one song at a time.

Don't think of it as one or the other. You use both interchangeably, together.

[innovine]

can you shift the position of one note in a p3 pattern to a different step easily?

Hopefully on the fly. One thing that annoys me with most step sequencers is that to move a note, you essentially just create a new one of the same velocity, duration and pitch on another step, and delete the first. I think it'd be nice with a MOVE option, which would just let me select the source and destination step, and be done in 3 clicks...

You can not record these kinds of changes directly into another track. You can of course record the midi output and then load the midi file in the cirklon

I'm not looking to record the changes, exactly, just the results of the changes... ie, as I move the loop points around and change the play direction, there's a stream of midi coming out. I would like to record that directly with the cirklon to a different track so i can later pick the best bits.

can I retrigger a pattern to restart, or to play from a particular step (quantized) by bashing onethe keys, and recording the results to another track?

Not sure i understand the first part of this question. The second part i hopefully answered above

I am very interested in taking a specific pattern, and then playing it forwards to different end points (just mashing on the 'last step'), and recording the result to a new track... like for example capturing steps 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 It keeps resetting to step 1 and playing forwards. Bonus points if i can set the first step too. I'd then trim this recorded data on a different track/pattern and keep the best bits

[innovine]

How is CC editing performed?

[helloitsmeagain]

How is CC editing performed?

There many ways. It depends if you in P3 or CK tracks. Both have the ability to assigns knobs to control CC in real time.

In P3 you can direct Aux to a particular CC value. You can make enter static values and leave them, or adjust them via accumulators.

I would like to record that directly with the cirklon to a different track so i can later pick the best bits.

Can't be done.

One thing that annoys me with most step sequencers is that to move a note, you essentially just create a new one of the same velocity, duration and pitch on another step, and delete the first.

Prepare to be annoyed... But there are creative ways to tackle the problem. You can mute the original note with an accumulator and unmute a copy (on a different step) of it that you already set up, using the same accumulator.

I am very interested in taking a specific pattern, and then playing it forwards to different end points (just mashing on the 'last step'), and recording the result to a new track... like for example capturing steps 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 It keeps resetting to step 1 and playing forwards. Bonus points if i can set the first step too. I'd then trim this recorded data on a different track/pattern and keep the best bits

Hmm, not sure you can dynamic address the 1st step value. I'd have to check that. You can do it with last. So the example you wrote out can be done, with ease.

[terryfalafel]

yeah, i still lurk on occasion, just not making techno anymore. I been learning music theory and getting into making deeper, jazzier house. That had always been my passion anyway.

Do you mostly use the Cirklon for sequencing a single song, or have you ever tried creating more of a live set with multiple songs all stitched together?

I'm only using it in a studio.

I understand that using P3 mode it's easier to use it for more of a live set type of thing, but the normal Cirklon mode is just for one song at a time.

Don't think of it as one or the other. You use both interchangeably, together.

Ta

[Hades]

yeah, i still lurk on occasion, just not making techno anymore. I been learning music theory and getting into making deeper, jazzier house. That had always been my passion anyway.

.

any links to that ?
I mean, it's not like we're only techno-minded here.
I'd love to hear what you're currently doing.