Some questions on reverb...

[dubdub]

Since I started using Valhalla Vintage, my use of reverb has been a bit "fire and forget", since it's hard to really mess up with it. However, I was watching this video on reverb the other day and a few things popped into my head that I'm curious about. I can't remember any thread on reverb use that popped up recently, so maybe this is a worthwhile discussion, since reverb is so essential when making techno.

1) Do you calculate your predelay (there's a nice little program called DelayCalc that does it for you) or do you do it by ear? I've heard some people say that calulating by ear is nice to get in the ballbark and then to adjust by ear. However, i'm having a hard time really figuring out any "correct" timing if it's something like verb on a synth and not a super rhythmic verb like on a snare.

2) Does it make sense to have different room sizes on different elements within one track? Say, 40% on your drums and 80% on your synths. It seems like it could possibly sound disjointed but is there even a thing such as a uniform "room" in techno track since the spaces tend to be fairly abstract?

3) On some tracks i've had Valhalla Vintage, Shimmer and MSI Airwalker on my synths. Airwalker as an insert to give it some presence, Vintage as the normal return-track-verb and Shimmer for some pad-esque sounds. Is three different verbs just too much or is it ok if it's "creative" verb like Shimmer?

4) I get early and late reflections from a technical standpoint but i'm never quite sure where to go with them - my instinct would be to have more early reflections with snappy/transient heavy sounds ie. drums and more late reflections with longer sounds, ie. synths. Does that approach make sense or is a different one needed?

5) For the Satson/Britson users, do you drive the return tracks to 0db VU and then level with the channel fader? Does the classic engineering way of going over the top with the reverb and then dialing it back until you can just barely hear it make sense with electronic music / techno?

[buffered]

Since I started using Valhalla Vintage, my use of reverb has been a bit "fire and forget", since it's hard to really mess up with it. However, I was watching this video on reverb the other day and a few things popped into my head that I'm curious about. I can't remember any thread on reverb use that popped up recently, so maybe this is a worthwhile discussion, since reverb is so essential when making techno.

1) Do you calculate your predelay (there's a nice little program called DelayCalc that does it for you) or do you do it by ear? I've heard some people say that calulating by ear is nice to get in the ballbark and then to adjust by ear. However, i'm having a hard time really figuring out any "correct" timing if it's something like verb on a synth and not a super rhythmic verb like on a snare.

-By ear

2) Does it make sense to have different room sizes on different elements within one track? Say, 40% on your drums and 80% on your synths. It seems like it could possibly sound disjointed but is there even a thing such as a uniform "room" in techno track since the spaces tend to be fairly abstract?

-try it. If it sounds disjointed to you then don't do it. Experiment

3) On some tracks i've had Valhalla Vintage, Shimmer and MSI Airwalker on my synths. Airwalker as an insert to give it some presence, Vintage as the normal return-track-verb and Shimmer for some pad-esque sounds. Is three different verbs just too much or is it ok if it's "creative" verb like Shimmer?

-everything is ok if it sounds good to you. Experiment. Dial things down if too much. also tame with sidechain and eq if a send.

4) I get early and late reflections from a technical standpoint but i'm never quite sure where to go with them - my instinct would be to have more early reflections with snappy/transient heavy sounds ie. drums and more late reflections with longer sounds, ie. synths. Does that approach make sense or is a different one needed?

-try out your approach and if it works for you, go with it.

5) For the Satson/Britson users, do you drive the return tracks to 0db VU and then level with the channel fader? Does the classic engineering way of going over the top with the reverb and then dialing it back until you can just barely hear it make sense with electronic music / techno?

-i go easy on returns but what you say may make sense to some people. Everything makes sense creatively really. If it works then it works. Sometimes this type of music is pushed forward by people using unorthodox techniques.
If you are asking these questions because you are engineering for another artist, maybe the questions are valid but if you are asking with your own music creation in mind....just experiment and find what works for you. You obviously have knowledge enough to know what you can and can't fuck with.

[dubdub]

Thanks for answering - I think what you're stressing was in way part of my question: how much "rules" which apply to using reverb with acoustic or pop music apply when making techno? None? I don't think a track that regards all the traditional rules regarding verb is going to sound very good. And with many parameters I'm often not sure what sounds better.

[buffered]

in acoustic and/or pop music reverb is used maybe more as a tool to have elements sit in the same environment in a natural way. For example in drum replacement to make a sample sit with the rest of the kit as though being played in the same room. Reverb on vocals for depth etc.
In techno generally reverb is used in a more synthetic way to create illusion of depth or location. Even used in extreme ways to create drones or atmospheres as a bed for percussive elements.
This is in general as pop music is so varied and strange these days that in some cases anything goes also.
It is why I asked if your q's were in terms of engineering other peoples music. In this case there are certain practices which can rectify vocals, drums etc in an efficient way.
In techno i think good practice is to learn by ear and trial and error. Learn your basic differences between convolution, spring, plate etc and which to employ. Then i would say useful techniques on how to control and sit them in a mix is important. So as insert or sends, sidechaining, m/s eq practices pertaining to verbs

[pimo]

My conclusion at the moment is that it gets easier to make an interesting mix the more you know about psychoacoustics and sound.
I think things like frequency, transient, stereo/mono and reverb need/should/could work together to place sounds in the mix, not just the dry/wet of a reverb.

[Dattington]

Most I learnt in the quickest amount of time was after buying this:

http://www.dancemusicproduction.com/ind ... -01-reverb

Can't big these tutorials up enough, they are well worth the money.

[msl]

1) Yeah its nice to sync the pre-delay generally, specially with things like vocals and snares.

2) Yes the old classic way of mixing was to have a short and long verb on sends and mix them accordingly

3) Whatever works. Personally I use inserts 95%, so long as your computer can handle it why not, I'm not looking to creat a classic "band" space.

4) I too am not so up on this, so I use my ears.

5) I use the compensate button on the rear... and bring it up to 0db


Anyway all the above goes out window with techno, there are no rules.


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