Gain staging and levels

[nomadjames]

https://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/view ... hp?t=74832

[nomadjames]

Those are my go to articles on gain staging.

[Lost to the Void]

Proper gain staging, sympathetic subtractive EQ and correct placement/choice of the right sounds for the mix in the first place (mixing by sound choice)
Get these 3 things right, and everything else becomes easy.

[Tony]

Hi,

A simple question which I do not find an answer.

Should i've my master channel at 0db when i produce and lower the volume at -6dB for exporting.

Or produce at -6db and don't touch anything for exporting ?

Thanks guys for your answer.

Best.

[Planar]

Produce to -6dB, it's a better habit to have.

[Lost to the Void]

Hi,

A simple question which I do not find an answer.

Should i've my master channel at 0db when i produce and lower the volume at -6dB for exporting.

Or produce at -6db and don't touch anything for exporting ?

Thanks guys for your answer.

Best.

Always always always have your master channel at 0db.

DO NOT then lower the volume to -6.

Get in to the habit of proper gain staging, use your channel faders to keep your mix peaking at NO HIGHER than -6db
My production monitors are set to give me 78dbA (a comfortable long term listening level for me) when working at -15dbFS RMS, and peaks sometimes hit -6, there is no need to have your master channel any hotter, if it is, you can almost bet that your gain staging is fucked, and you are driving your effects chains too high.

It`s a good practice to get an SPL meter, make a tune so that your RMS level is at a constant you will work to as a standard (say around -15, or -12 if you like a little more squeeze), then set your monitors to a level that is comfortable.
Not down the reading on your SPL meter.

then every time you make music, try to work to the same RMS level, with your monitors set to the same level, and check your SPL meter to keep an eye that you are working at your comfort level (mine is 78db for production, I go louder for working out some things temporarily).

Eventually your ears will attune to this level and then you will naturally start to produce to this level without the need to reference your meters. It will help you to get good gain staging, more consistent dynamics (you`ll know when you have crushed shit too much) and working at consistent levels means you start to familiarise your ears with what sounds correct at this level (especially if you reference listen to other productions at this level), and your EQ work will get better.
There are only benefits to working this way.

[aoud]

I guess keeping peaks under 6dBFS is generally a good idea. I tend to work with my peaks at about -10 dBFS. I work with outboard though so my gain staging has that in mind. My converters are setup at +4dBu = -16dBFS

Going with the idea that you'd want to be hitting around 0dBu RMS in the analog domain, you'd want to hit around -20dBFS RMS in if your setup were like mine. And say your dynamic crest is 12dB, this leaves enough room before clipping. (Most gear clips around +20dBu)

My Analog Keys and Virus TI both seems to of been designed with those levels in mind. Even my MicroBrute works perfectly at those levels. I think it is what most have in mind. It is amazing having everything come together and not having to play with the faders when writing.

Anyway, how does it all matter if you intend on being 100% ITB? Many plugins still perform unreliably with too-hot levels. And there is nothing worse than using all the faders in the areas of little resolution or slammed at +6. And if you're working with any creative routing it is not as simple as just "turning them all down" or instantiating a utility plugin. Keep the levels low, and don't try to work at "mastering loudness" levels from the start.

The only DAW I am beginning to trust the bundled DSP in is Live. They've redone and added some important DSP. Including the EQ Eight and the Auto Filter in 9.5. Great stuff.

[msl]

Always leave your master channel at 0db. Your losing resolution otherwise.


.

[Smith & King]

My technique is to run a limiter while i mix , leaving the master at 0db. much more fun and you get a better idea of how its going to end up sounding. But there are no rules , what ever works for you and delivers the results you are looking for .

[Lost to the Void]

Never never never run a limiter when you mix kids.

If you want to effect dynamics on your master buss, please use compression and not limiting.
Your mastering engineer and your audience will love you more.

[Wiu]

Running a limiter with +14 gain is the best thing to mix into really. Maybe +22 if you're going for that trendy distorted shizz.

[Lost to the Void]

If the the meter moves then you lose
0db Dynamic Range wins the beatport techno competition

[arkos]

I mix into a limiter as I pretty much mix and write at the same time, only 1-2 db gain reduction if any at all. I just use it to push the volume up since I keep every channel in the mixer pretty low. The kick is usually at -18. Seems to work ok here although I am no mixing expert, I do turn it off before exporting the final mix though.

[Lost to the Void]

Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.

[arkos]

Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.

You know what I'm not even 100% sure why, I have a very short attention span and if shit ain't banging from the start I just zone out and start tweaking individual sounds for six hours and eventually get sick of the loop and start yet another one or close the program and do other things..... Current folder I'm working in is 155 songs that are "work in progress". Ok a few of them are done but lot's of half finished ones and countless 16 bar loops.

But your post earlier made me think and I actually opened up Live and threw Sdc on the master to see if I could use that to push up the levels like I use a limiter for, but once I started adding more channels the master went over 0 db, guess I can just turn down the make up gain but I eventually put a brickwall limiter there to keep it out of the red. Think it might also having something to do with me being a lazy fucking cunt

It's a bad habit and all I know that but it seem's to work for me, fooling myself that it's actually sounding "good". The reason why I started doing it this way was to have some idea of what the tune would sound like after mastering.

[Vorlis]

Running a limiter with +14 gain is the best thing to mix into really. Maybe +22 if you're going for that trendy distorted shizz.

[Lost to the Void]

Why a limiter?
Why use the worst culprit for distortion and destruction of dynamics and then sit that shit over your master ripping up to 2db of life out of your music, tainting your ears to how the final sound might be, skewing your opinion of the final dynamics, and blarging your all important transient information.
It makes no sense.
I master all day every day and the limiter stays off right up until the last moment when I need to tickle for final level. My ears love me because of it.

What`s wrong with compression?
The loudness war is over.

You know what I'm not even 100% sure why, I have a very short attention span and if shit ain't banging from the start I just zone out and start tweaking individual sounds for six hours and eventually get sick of the loop and start yet another one or close the program and do other things..... Current folder I'm working in is 155 songs that are "work in progress". Ok a few of them are done but lot's of half finished ones and countless 16 bar loops.

But your post earlier made me think and I actually opened up Live and threw Sdc on the master to see if I could use that to push up the levels like I use a limiter for, but once I started adding more channels the master went over 0 db, guess I can just turn down the make up gain but I eventually put a brickwall limiter there to keep it out of the red. Think it might also having something to do with me being a lazy fucking cunt

It's a bad habit and all I know that but it seem's to work for me, fooling myself that it's actually sounding "good". The reason why I started doing it this way was to have some idea of what the tune would sound like after mastering.

So just bad practice all along then.
Turn down your channel faders if you are hitting zero.
There is no reason why you should be hitting zero with a comp on the master unless your channels are also blargged and your general gain practice is poop.

Secondly, all you are doing is finding out what your music will sound like with shitty mastering, or maximisation to be precise, because limiting is not mastering.
If the final aim is to have your music mastered shittily, then I guess this is the right way to go about things.

[arkos]

So just bad practice all along then.
Turn down your channel faders if you are hitting zero.
There is no reason why you should be hitting zero with a comp on the master unless your channels are also blargged and your general gain practice is poop.

Secondly, all you are doing is finding out what your music will sound like with shitty mastering, or maximisation to be precise, because limiting is not mastering.
If the final aim is to have your music mastered shittily, then I guess this is the right way to go about things.

Ofcoz it's shittily mastered, I'm doing it myself The gain staging is fine everything is under -18 on the mixer channels and none plugins are overloading... I was putting +18 db make up gain on the compressor because I'm lazy as fuck

[terly]

Just turn up your speakers if you want your track to "bang" from the get-go. Also, you don't need to have your channels at -18. -10 is a good standard for a kick in techno. But then it's all relative anyway, so it doesn't really matter much. It is totally ridiculous to have your channels at -18 and then add +18 on your master though ... If I am understanding you correctly.

[arkos]

Just turn up your speakers if you want your track to "bang" from the get-go. Also, you don't need to have your channels at -18. -10 is a good standard for a kick in techno. But then it's all relative anyway, so it doesn't really matter much. It is totally ridiculous to have your channels at -18 and then add +18 on your master though ... If I am understanding you correctly.

Well that's subjective isn't it ? A article I read sometime ago states that -18 is optimal for digital audio. And to my ears everything just sounds less congested/cluttered with everything low in the mixer in Live but you know that's just me and my opinion