Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Punxsutawney Phil's Shadow _ Contains 'A Best Of..' Selection Of Frequently Discussed Topics From THE HOLE
Planar
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Location: Leeds
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Lost to the Void wrote:But let me know how stripbus performs, I like SKnote plugs a lot

Got it and just did a little test with it. I like it a lot. It's definitely less subtle than Satson by default, but dialed back and you get that slight change that Satson introduces. The EQ/filtering doesn't seem as smooth when you move it, but the end result seems similar and there's more flexibility. The ducking is very useful- not pumping, more subtle. A few console types. The global bypass is a godsend- the difference is very apparent when you use it. I think I'm happy I went with this option, slightly more versatile and cheaper than Satson, the only real downside seems to be a very slightly higher CPU usage, but its minor and understandable given it does more.


gavisthename wrote:Anyone know of a demo of Satson floating about anywhere? Need to try before I buy

There isn't a demo. The channel strip is part of the Computer Music DVD/online vault though. It doesn't have the extra fat button, but you get the gist of it. Also try the VOS plugin recommended by Mattias if you're on PC, completely free and similar results.

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

The VOS tesla pro is just a saturator, albeit a good one, and not a console emulator. So bare that in mind, it doesn't do what satson does in that respect.
It is nice though.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

gavisthename
leper
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by gavisthename »

Yo Steve what do you reckon the chances are you could give us a link to a track you've worked on with Satson on and Satson off so we can demo the difference?

:-))))))

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Extremely unlikely, due the fact that the satson is controlling gain staging, simply turning it off would fuck the mix up

I can tell you it has transformed my mixes in a Number of ways though
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

gavisthename
leper
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by gavisthename »

Oh I see. I wonder if there are some a/b comparisons out on that Internet thingy...

Planar
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Location: Leeds
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

gavisthename wrote:Oh I see. I wonder if there are some a/b comparisons out on that Internet thingy...

Sent you a PM :)

User avatar
msl
║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:47 am
Location: Berlin
Contact:
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by msl »

Yeah been using Satson for the last two years on all my mixes, kinda of addicted to it myself too. It is subtle, but thats the way it should be. You need to mix into it to get the most from it, the hfp is especially nice as mentioned earlier in the thread. Personally I really like overloading the input on it, lovely on things like vocals or house organs and hi-hats. Just seems to make things a 'little' less sterile.
www.bernadettetrax.bandcamp.com
www.soundcloud.com/michaellovatt


“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” Dune

Faust
Alf Garnett
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Faust »

Same same, been using the Satsons for a while now. Just as said already here, for controlling your gain staging they are invaluable. They are extremely simple with no bells and whistles and.. well, they just work. I found that they really help with workflow and mindset also. One last thing is that the processing power needed to run them (on every channel) is hardly noticeable.

I basically have the channel plugin as the first insert on every channel - set the gain so that the VU meter is hitting around 0dB and Im good to go. Stick the buss plugin on any group channels/busses and on the master channel.

I actually have the waves NSL plugins but instead use the Satsons by default. Like I say, they're simple and just work.

Faust
Alf Garnett
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Faust »

I think the most important thing about them is actually the benefits in workflow and good work habits that they can instill.

The difference in sound from using them is extremely subtle - I think a mix using them just feels somehow more open and 'round'. - But yeah, even if they were totally transparent I would use them for the workflow benifits.

Planar
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3883
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm
Location: Leeds
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Planar »

Since I started using these plugins I've really thought about plugin input levels and gain staging. My experiments are sounding much better for it. Looking forward to applying the ideas to my next full track. Just lacking the inspiration for it now... :lol:

User avatar
Lost to the Void
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 13518
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Lost to the Void »

Oi Matt!!

After so much talk about Tesla Pro, something I use only occasionally, I decided to really rinse it out during a production session, to really push it and find out its limitations and so on.

I'm totally blown away by it now, for certain uses it is really bloody good.
I'm stunned actually, the transient function is really quite clever.

So cheers for mentioning it a lot, I'm going to use it a lot more than I did.

Not using it in channel strip context, before anyone asks.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

User avatar
Mattias
subsekt
subsekt
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Mattias »

Indeed it's a wicked little beast! A true piece of art.
Music Page: http://www.facebook.com/Mattias.Fridell.Music
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/fridell
Sample packs: http://mfsamples.bandcamp.com

Contention / 005

gavisthename
leper
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by gavisthename »

Not really sure what everybody means by using Satson or NSL for gain staging?? Do you mean you increase the volume knob on the plugin so that the signal is level with the DAWs fader knob??

Confused...

User avatar
arc
^^ Has a Drumcode Tattoo
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:02 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by arc »

gavisthename wrote:Not really sure what everybody means by using Satson or NSL for gain staging?? Do you mean you increase the volume knob on the plugin so that the signal is level with the DAWs fader knob??

Confused...
Yeah, I'd like some more info on this as well. What is the goal when gain staging? And what are some techniques to achieve said goal?

Faust
Alf Garnett
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Faust »

Perhaps take a few hours out of your day to read this pretty legendary thread on gearslutz (warning: its a huge thread) -

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html

Its worth reading as much of it as you can as there are so many good post's on the subject in there.

gavisthename
leper
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by gavisthename »

Thanks Faust ... I'll prep that for toilet reading!

Any quick answers on how to approach the volume / drive knobs on NSL or Satson would be welcome too ;-)

User avatar
arc
^^ Has a Drumcode Tattoo
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:02 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by arc »

Faust wrote:Perhaps take a few hours out of your day to read this pretty legendary thread on gearslutz (warning: its a huge thread) -

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html

Its worth reading as much of it as you can as there are so many good post's on the subject in there.
Thanks Faust! This explains it pretty good.

Faust
Alf Garnett
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Faust »

No probs :]
gavisthename wrote:Thanks Faust ... I'll prep that for toilet reading!

Any quick answers on how to approach the volume / drive knobs on NSL or Satson would be welcome too ;-)
Im sure most people will approach the subject in their own way of course. Myself, I have the Satson as the first insert on every channel and set the gain trim so that its hitting around 0dB on the VU meter. This way Im running into any other plugins later in the chain at (a supposedly) optimum level (which also gives plenty of headroom for any further abusive or subtle processing).

If Im ever going to drive them (using them as a makeshift saturation tool or whatever) then I would use a separate instance of the plugin later in the chain and just basically drive to taste or whatever sounds good to me. Im not much of a fan of the drive on the NSL stuff to be honest - they sound a little 'flabby' to me. The Satson can be quite pleasing. I would usually use another tool for that job though on most occasions.

This is pretty nice for driving audio out of in a kind of subtle and sweet way - http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=arange-

However, I would only ever use any of these in this way as a subtle effect. If I want to destroy and rape some audio then I use more appropriate tools for the job :]

The Satsons though as a trim tool for gain staging (while also adding a slight bit of its own audio voodoo) is simple and effective.

Faust
Alf Garnett
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:05 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by Faust »

*disclaimer* my mixdowns are rarely as subtle and clean as one might expect with the impression I may be giving here ;]

gavisthename
leper
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:31 pm
Re: Analogue warmth (Valves, tubes, compressors, saturation)

Post by gavisthename »

Excellent, that's just the explanation I was after. Just as I thought you run the audio signal into Satson at whatever level -db level, then push Satson's internal knob up until its hitting 0db.

Surely you would want to be under 0db if you have further processing to do in the chain? Shouldn't you leave about -3db after Satson if you are adding alternative distortion plugins etc? Also I thought I read in this thread that people were plonking Satson at the very end of their chains?


Locked