Kick Drums

[Mattias]

Yea dont use 3 reverbs on a kick, thats a bad idea.

[helloitsmeagain]

3 reverbs on a kick is completely unecessary to emulate the blawan sound.
you just need a spring or roomy reverb set with a short decey so there isn`t too much overlap, roll off the highs on the reverb then post compress the reverb so it sticks to the kick.
Maybe run some lo-fi sat on it.

actually i wasn't trying to emulate it, it just inspired me to try a different approach... but now you mention it... i'm gona give that a try! thanks man, much appreciated.

btw, spent the day messing with the 3 verb approach... couldn't get a kick that bit through when it sat amongst other elements. so that idea is officially in the bin...

[sam]

holy fuck. blawan is incredible!

[Dirk L]

He's quality alright. Gets a bit of knocking he does, but he's a great producer. He's ace cos he has a good tight clean sound with many different styles. Whats there not to like??

[gabe DM]

what about kick's compression? any good ones? I like stilweel's majortom and rocket (this last one has also parallel compression) but I totally go random on the att/rel/ratio values...never really got the theory good.
also I tried the fabfilter pro-c which looked full of option and sounded really good but after a while the demo started making noises and the price is totally out of budget for me.

[Lost to the Void]

Compression on kicks.

A quick rough and ready guide.

Pull down the threshold (or turn up input gain) until you get between 2-6 db gain reduction, depending on compressor.
Use a mid ratio

Adjust release so that the gain reduction returns to zero before the next kick starts

Adjust attack to taste. Fast attack will lead to a flat sounding kick that will be large in the mix but not so punchy, which has it`s uses, if you tune the attack to slower settings what you are doing is changing the relationship between the initial "Hit" of the kick, the fast transients, and the body of the kick. So as you back off the attack, you are allowing more of the "nose" of the kick through, untouched, and are then bringing up the later stages of the kick in relation to it, which can lead to a larger attack stage.
What this can do is make your kicks very punchy, but there is no generic setting, it is content dependant, entirely dependant on the type of kick you are using.

[gabe DM]

wow, thanks a lot, will try all your tips and see if I can understand it for good

[Mattias]

I usually don't compress my kicks at all. I'm more into transient shaping, saturation and EQ:ing / balancing. I used to compress like mad back in the days but I reached a stage where I find it totally unnecessary for 90% of the music I make today. Also it's so much more unusual and radical to not use compression these days hehe.

[Patriek]

I try to avoid compression, but sometimes it's needed. I find it hard to get the right sound for my kicks though. But the tips in this thread are helping a lot. Time for some old-school-all-night-long producing session!

[gabe DM]

I don't know, I got schooled that compression on kks is needed but I understand your will to experiment new ways Mattias and your results are damn good so keep up at it. But also your techno is very distorted and deep and all the element blending into each other form some kind of continuous flow ...as for me I still need to get that dsamn smashing kk before moving on and see what's next

I also lately use a lot of transient shaping and relative inflating I found that a good way of controlling more and more the elements at our disposal.

[Mattias]

I'd say, get experienced with compression to 100% then you know when you dont need it and what you are able to replace it with. Compression -can- be good but people been treating it like the Holy Grail of processing in electronic dance music (and most other music as well for that matter) and all stuff like that triggers an anti-reaction within me and make me go the opposite way instead! haha

But yeah, a slight (or much more..) distortion / saturation & tonal shape of any sound element can replace compression by far, distortion & saturation also smoothen out and pump out the character and, if you wish, crush the dynamics in a nicer way then most compressors can do is my personal opinion.

[Mslwte]

Compression on kicks.

A quick rough and ready guide.

Pull down the threshold (or turn up input gain) until you get between 2-6 db gain reduction, depending on compressor.
Use a mid ratio

Adjust release so that the gain reduction returns to zero before the next kick starts

Adjust attack to taste. Fast attack will lead to a flat sounding kick that will be large in the mix but not so punchy, which has it`s uses, if you tune the attack to slower settings what you are doing is changing the relationship between the initial "Hit" of the kick, the fast transients, and the body of the kick. So as you back off the attack, you are allowing more of the "nose" of the kick through, untouched, and are then bringing up the later stages of the kick in relation to it, which can lead to a larger attack stage.
What this can do is make your kicks very punchy, but there is no generic setting, it is content dependant, entirely dependant on the type of kick you are using.

great stuff steve thank you

[Críoch]

I use Steves method as I got to see/hear it in the flesh & it sounds perfect to me

Its a lot gentler than the compression that I was using before & I'm happier with it as a result. I think that I use compression to much - or have done in the past. I know I was sidechaining everything out of it without thinking. I dont like that sound (on everything). It was just a bad habit tbh..

Mattias - I'm interested in the whole using dist / sat on sounds over compression. I've been messing about with using gentle distortion at the end of a chain to bring the levels up instead of getting a comp to do it (like I usually do).

Is this essentially what you do? It just seems to round it a bit - but not clip or destroy it. I like it & it doesnt seem to deaden stuff as quick as compression.

[Lokua]

Compression -can- be good but people been treating it like the Holy Grail of processing in electronic dance music

Seriously. Jumping around on Soundcloud, people's waveforms looking like damn bricks.

[Faust]

Im more inclined to use distortion/saturation rather than compression. I do also use compression, however I think it's a process best used 'creatively' rather than how most would perhaps use it as a way to make things louder.

I think an important point to note, is to use it sparingly and with 'grace' (for want of a better word) - Im not saying you cant be heavy handed and brutal with compression (because you sometimes should), just that most often its best used for gentle shaping. If for example you constantly find a sound needs so much shaping to sit where you hope in the mix - well then its quite possible that you are using the 'wrong' sound in the first place...

...to expand on that, *lets say you started with 'kick A' for example* as a composition grows from the initial first stages, the other sounds that have now been created around it can often dictate that 'kick A' needs throwing in the bin and a more complimentary kick is (now - in context) needed. This can perhaps be the point that some could start messing with trying to brutally re-shape (rather than reflecting upon and replacing). Thats not to say 'kick A' was the 'wrong' sound in the first place, its just that it can often (with the kick being, I imagine, a pretty popular starting point for most) become the wrong sound as a composition gets more meat on its bones.

Saying all that, there are times when getting brutal with compression can bring extremely good results, but yeah, in those cases I personally would most of the time (not always) reach for distortion and saturation.

[Faust]

I think often that 'newer' musicians/producers use compression wildly, and on everything, thinking its the dark mystical tool that makes everything loud and makes everything sit/behave in the mix.

The reality is that its often more so a combination of (subtractive/GENTLE additive) EQ, creative use of delays/reverbs, panning, and the balancing of individual levels that helps things sit and behave.

Final volume and loudness is best left to a mastering engineer (or till the mastering stage if you DIY).

Sorry if Im a little of topic.

[Faust]

Compression on kicks.

A quick rough and ready guide.

Pull down the threshold (or turn up input gain) until you get between 2-6 db gain reduction, depending on compressor.
Use a mid ratio

Adjust release so that the gain reduction returns to zero before the next kick starts

Adjust attack to taste. Fast attack will lead to a flat sounding kick that will be large in the mix but not so punchy, which has it`s uses, if you tune the attack to slower settings what you are doing is changing the relationship between the initial "Hit" of the kick, the fast transients, and the body of the kick. So as you back off the attack, you are allowing more of the "nose" of the kick through, untouched, and are then bringing up the later stages of the kick in relation to it, which can lead to a larger attack stage.
What this can do is make your kicks very punchy, but there is no generic setting, it is content dependant, entirely dependant on the type of kick you are using.

Great post.

[gabe DM]

I think an important point to note, is to use it sparingly and with 'grace' (for want of a better word) - Im not saying you cant be heavy handed and brutal with compression (because you sometimes should), just that most often its best used for gentle shaping. If for example you constantly find a sound needs so much shaping to sit where you hope in the mix - well then its quite possible that you are using the 'wrong' sound in the first place...

I agree.
but it's hard to let go a kk who has ridden with us for hours.

[Faust]

Indeed it is, however sometimes it must be done. The alternative can all to often be to to spend more wasted hours on it (and the mix as a whole) - time that can be spent in moving on and creating a finished track. Also the plus side is that more time is spent creatively and less banging ones head against a wall.

Theres a saying in poker "dont throw good money after bad". So dont waste good time on a bad sound just because you already have spent so much time on it already. Its not the parts of the track that are precious - its the whole.

[Mattias]

Yup if it sounds "not right" then its a waste of energy to force it. So replace, analyze & listen till its getting the right feel THEN start processing to enhance that feeling. I feel lots of fellas work backwards, they try to shape a diamond from granite.