Technoacts that are not white males

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Mattias
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mattias »

I don't think anyone disagrees with you Root.
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Hades
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Hades »

Mono-xID wrote:
Hades wrote:on a more serious note though : how come you switched to making trap ?
(and no, I'm not really asking about what made you dislike/hate the techno scene that much, rather how you got into making trap)
Dude chill :lol: ... I just wanted to try something different. I make all sorts of music. I can't be arsed to just make techno.

And no, I don't sell beats because my beats are shit. Soundcloud mumble rappaz can have them for free.
why on earth would you think I am not chill when I just ask a simple question. :)
dude chill :lol:
;)

always good to make music in more than one genre,
just didn't expect you to be making trap, somehow.
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chava
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by chava »

I might be ignorant and out of the loop, but to what extent does the underground techno scene have a problem with racism and sexism? Or are we just talking about equal representation of minorities, women etc?

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by dubdub »

chava wrote:I might be ignorant and out of the loop, but to what extent does the underground techno scene have a problem with racism and sexism? Or are we just talking about equal representation of minorities, women etc?
I can't speak for racism but ask basically any female DJ and they can tell you endless tales of sexism straight out of some chauvinist 50s fantasy. I have heard some crazy stories. There are a LOT of guys out there that think that women have no business DJing, especially when it cames to harder, "male" music like techno. To be fair most of it does come from random drunk punters although it also exists with other DJ and promoters. I think they tend to be a bit more subtle about it than drunk bros at the club though.

That said women are more likely to get booked on the underground level than comparable male DJs (A-list festivals is still almost exclusively men). They also get criticized a lot more though. Female DJs get a lot more scrutiny when they screw up, whereas with men everyone is used to bad male DJs so people don't really care as much. Not everyone has tough skin, DJing in front of hundreds or even thousands of people is enough pressure as it is. I can see why many would fold and not pursue DJing further.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by The_G »

I think y'all are overthinking this a bit. Love techno but it can be a bit stale and same-y. One of the reasons I find the new cohort of female DJs/producers so exciting is that it broadens the horizon of perspectives people bring into music. And yeah, women can face a shit ton of sexist bullshit that the rest of us just don't see (or shrug off) because it doesn't affect us. I don't believe in positive discrimination but I do believe in giving a signal boost to people who may have to overcome more barriers than the average bloke. (And not just by race or gender, also by where they are from, how they came up, whatever.) You can do that without getting into quotas or different standards or whatever. It's all good.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mattias »

The_G wrote:I think y'all are overthinking this a bit. Love techno but it can be a bit stale and same-y. One of the reasons I find the new cohort of female DJs/producers so exciting is that it broadens the horizon of perspectives people bring into music. And yeah, women can face a shit ton of sexist bullshit that the rest of us just don't see (or shrug off) because it doesn't affect us. I don't believe in positive discrimination but I do believe in giving a signal boost to people who may have to overcome more barriers than the average bloke. (And not just by race or gender, also by where they are from, how they came up, whatever.) You can do that without getting into quotas or different standards or whatever. It's all good.
Sensible and healthy comment. Well done sir.
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chava
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by chava »

The_G wrote:I think y'all are overthinking this a bit. Love techno but it can be a bit stale and same-y. One of the reasons I find the new cohort of female DJs/producers so exciting is that it broadens the horizon of perspectives people bring into music.
I used to believe this, but I am not so sure anymore. Does being female necessarily bring in a new perspective to a music style that is primarily instrumental? I am not dismissing this notion, but I like to hear some examples. My feeling is that cultural background, creative ability and personality factors play a much larger role.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by chava »

dubdub wrote:Female DJs get a lot more scrutiny when they screw up, whereas with men everyone is used to bad male DJs so people don't really care as much. Not everyone has tough skin, DJing in front of hundreds or even thousands of people is enough pressure as it is. I can see why many would fold and not pursue DJing further.
It's a tough game. And everyone that is starting gets scrutinized by the top alpha dogs. It has always been like that. Back in the 90s any top DJ acted like an idiot whether the newcomers were male or female. But I would suspect that tough-minded female DJs act somewhat the same (maybe using other, subtler, tactics) and are just as succesful as male DJs. And as you say, the underground scene might even favour female DJs at the moment.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Mattias »

chava wrote:
The_G wrote:My feeling is that cultural background, creative ability and personality factors play a much larger role.
For sure. Many females also brings just that!
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

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chava wrote:
The_G wrote:I think y'all are overthinking this a bit. Love techno but it can be a bit stale and same-y. One of the reasons I find the new cohort of female DJs/producers so exciting is that it broadens the horizon of perspectives people bring into music.
I used to believe this, but I am not so sure anymore. Does being female necessarily bring in a new perspective to a music style that is primarily instrumental? I am not dismissing this notion, but I like to hear some examples. My feeling is that cultural background, creative ability and personality factors play a much larger role.
Experiencing life differently = a different perspective. And yes, women generally experience life differently than men. Is that the only difference that matters? No, of course not. But techno has always been culturally/nationally/racially diverse. It has never really been gender diverse. Now it feels like techno is opening up in a way it wasn't too open before, and that's always a good thing, in my opinion.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

I honestly don`t feel anything opening up at all that wasn`t open in the first place.
It just feels a little forced and more strongly marketed now.
Maybe you weren`t aware of the amount of women in the scene because you weren`t "in" the scene as such, but there have always been plenty of women working away (and it is kinda insulting to them to think otherwise).
Now everything is on fucking farcebook, and everyone gets their new weekly black and white promo headshots done, you might be more aware of it, but nothing has really changed.
It has become a trend to market, so you are now seeing it marketed, that`s all. Techno is commercial as fuck now. Look at drum and bass when it was the hot shit in dance music, plenty of women were in that game then.
Once whatever the latest hot topic has superseded "Look evvry boddy...Wimminz" you`ll see the next bullshit in your weekly RA feed.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

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Lost to the Void wrote:I honestly don`t feel anything opening up at all that wasn`t open in the first place.
It just feels a little forced and more strongly marketed now.
Maybe you weren`t aware of the amount of women in the scene because you weren`t "in" the scene as such, but there have always been plenty of women working away (and it is kinda insulting to them to think otherwise).
Now everything is on fucking farcebook, and everyone gets their new weekly black and white promo headshots done, you might be more aware of it, but nothing has really changed.
It has become a trend to market, so you are now seeing it marketed, that`s all. Techno is commercial as fuck now. Look at drum and bass when it was the hot shit in dance music, plenty of women were in that game then.
Once whatever the latest hot topic has superseded "Look evvry boddy...Wimminz" you`ll see the next bullshit in your weekly RA feed.
Every time i try to explain this to people, my point automatically gets dismissed and i am classed as a sexist, misogynistic male who is 'part of the problem'. This mainly comes from the crowd that strongly follow R.A, mixmag etc - which are all heavy on the social-justice side of things.

Ive given up explaining now and just let people get on with it...
Dont take life so seriously :mrgreen:

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

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Lost to the Void wrote:I honestly don`t feel anything opening up at all that wasn`t open in the first place.
It just feels a little forced and more strongly marketed now.
Maybe you weren`t aware of the amount of women in the scene because you weren`t "in" the scene as such, but there have always been plenty of women working away (and it is kinda insulting to them to think otherwise).
Now everything is on fucking farcebook, and everyone gets their new weekly black and white promo headshots done, you might be more aware of it, but nothing has really changed.
It has become a trend to market, so you are now seeing it marketed, that`s all. Techno is commercial as fuck now. Look at drum and bass when it was the hot shit in dance music, plenty of women were in that game then.
Once whatever the latest hot topic has superseded "Look evvry boddy...Wimminz" you`ll see the next bullshit in your weekly RA feed.
Dude, you've known me on techno boards for well over a decade now, and we've had plenty of conversations about how things were back in the '90s. So I think you *know* I'm not some new guy on the block who doesn't know shit from shit about how things have been. But in my experience, in Detroit, New York, London and LA, it's always been 90+% dudes at the DJ/producer level. Why? Probably a complex set of reasons, ranging from sexism to maybe women are just less interested in this kind of thing (I'm not commenting on why). I'm just saying that, for me, more perspectives going in makes music more interesting going out. And there certainly seems to be more interest in female DJs right now than any point I can remember.

I like what I'm hearing right now from some female producers, like Peggy Gou and Amelie Lens. I find their music refreshing and interesting--and of course I would if they were dudes as well. Good music is good music, no matter who makes it--and the same goes for bad music or bland music. Something isn't good or bad based on who made it. It's good or bad if it's good or bad. That said, I just tend to find music more interesting when there are more different kinds of people (along any number of axes) putting their own stamp on the template.

It's like, a few years ago I discovered there are some really fantastic science fiction writers from Africa. They publish in regional journals, and while some write in English, others don't. But then a couple anthologies were compiled, including translations, to be sold in Europe and North America. If they were shit stories, then whatever. But these were good stories, so it's *great* that someone decided to give them a signal boost. To me it's that simple. If someone is doing good stuff, and maybe it's a bit harder for them to get noticed, then there's nothing wrong with giving them a signal boost.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by mainst09 »

Yall want to hear a true story?

One day i was approached by a girl whose artist name is "Ciel" but her real name is Cindy and basically she attacked because my artist name who for those who don't know its "Cindy" was already used, that my track titles were sexist and a lot of people in the scene were disgusted and all those things and you know what she did even before i could reply? she blocked me hahaha so she calls me the most stupid shit ever and then blocks me.

Until today she was the only person who has ever written or talked to me about my track titles and the most funny thing about all this is she has only released 1 EP and she will be touring the world this year but not because of her music only because she is tackling all the prejudice present on our scene, she is with Discwoman and all the technofeminism girls. It seems like now its not about talent but about what you fight for in the "scene".
Voices From Cindy's Cunt

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

Well yeah but being on internet boards and being actually part of the show is a bit different mate.
How many distributers have you dealt with? How many artists do you deal with on a weekly basis? How many gigs have you done etc?
I mean being "in" the scene you see a lot more.

I can't speak for detroit and La or New York, but London has had plenty of girls in the scene forever.. more on the DJ side of things (especially in house music) than production, but techno in London has always been a relatively small scene anyway... Apart from now, being as commercial as it is.
Pretty much every country I've played in I've run into girls either DJing or producing techno, and continue to do so.

I mean, techno is more fash, and girls in techno is a hot topic, so we are seeing more women get a spotlight. And that may well lead to more women feeling like they can get involved, which might be something positive to come out of it.
I only deal with the underground, so maybe commercial events and the promoters are more sexist??!? But all the people I have dealt with over the last 20 years, promoters, labels etc have been super open and inclusive. I've played alongside girls many many many times. And in general the crowd has always been very mixed too.

But I'm not seeing any more or less women on the underground. It's always been pretty good, very inclusive, it kinda goes with the type of mindset of music and passion as the centre over commercial ideals, it's generally a left leaning, hearts on your sleeves kinda scene.
I mean sure Amelie lens and Peggy gou, but damn their music is pretty bland generic and commercial. Amelie lense doing the whole reverby Berlin style fash, and Gou doing more melodic crossover, the fact you point them out sorta makes my point for me....
There are some great girls out there doing far better work. They might not be as...... Media\magazine friendly... in their image, so you don't know about them.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by The_G »

I was talking about techno, not house. House has always had a different (though somewhat overlapping) demographic. Always been a ton more women involved in producing/DJing house than techno. But yeah, of course there have always been women producers and DJs in techno as well. *Some.*

...but as a percentage? Not a very big one.

If that changes, is it bad? For me it's good. Though the overall percentage of female producers making techno will likely remain small.

(To answer your question, I worked in a techno/house shop in the mid/late 90s then worked for a couple distributors late 90s/early 00s. Also used to gig regularly as a DJ. I was off the grid 2008-2010 and 2012-2014 or so, but otherwise I've been part of the scene for more than 20 years now. Granted, I haven't been *heavily* involved in the scene for a while--not consistently like you have. But I *have* been involved.)

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

Who is saying a change in percentage is bad?
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by The_G »

Lost to the Void wrote:Who is saying a change in percentage is bad?
Well that was my original point through this whole thing...it's good! So it's good to support female producers and DJs who are doing quality work, which is what I read as the OP's aim.

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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by Lost to the Void »

It should be every *good* promoters aim to support producers doing quality work, regardless of what their sex, race, or sexual preferences are.
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Re: Technoacts that are not white males

Post by The_G »

Sure, but reality doesn't always conform to ideals. For example, when there are more barriers for one group than another, then being "category-blind" is a way of just replicating the status quo.

Now I'm not saying that's how it is in techno, or that this is the main reason there's such a small proportion of female producers and DJs. I suspect it's part of it but only part. Regardless, I'd want to hear some female perspectives before judging one way or another.

I'm making a simple point, which is, I like the idea of more people bringing various perspectives into music. Not just gender or race, but also the kinds of music they grew up on, the way they grew up, different backgrounds with instruments. Anything really. Mix it up and mix it up again.


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