If you are the most talented person in the room,change room

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kostas
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If you are the most talented person in the room,change room

Post by kostas »

''If you are the most talented person in the room, you must change room.’’

there is a lot of speculations as of who said that. a simple search online can return different variations of the same thought.
I m not going to spend energy on who actually said that but I think you get the idea.

Maybe at some point in our life we had the feeling that ppl we are used to hang out with just don t get it. specially regarding music production the learning curve, we all know is very steep and craggy. and it takes a lot of guts to fight through the loneliness of the studio, while producing , expanding existing knowledge, researching, managing financials, work a day job , being a lover, a parent, a friend and a son... you know what I m talking about.

and at the end of the day when you are trying to spark a constructive conversation with somebody, anybody, about music production and the technical side of it, you know frequency spectrum, loudness levels, tips and tricks on the thing you are wasting(?) your life in, you get nothing but a great void.(Lost in the Void is this has something to do with your nickname?)
nobody is there to communicate in the same manner that you are trying to… and then the great enemy, the self, comes into play whispering the doubt with words like everything I m doing it s a waste of time. Right? I guess we all have been there although we hesitate to admit.

there is a door that it is opening when you apply for feedback in your work, and this is something that all artist have to deal with. the great question ‘’is it good enough’’ rephrasing itself to ‘’am I good enough’’ and this is the trap right here. So while I m listening for the second time to the Subsekt Member’s track’s Mix, I m admiring the work and the effort of those everyday heroes, that are collectively manifesting themselves through my speakers, I m asking you.

How can you surround yourself with like minded people that love the thing that you love? How is it possible to ask a question and not to get the great silence as response?
Let' s come down to it , How you keep yourself motivated and the great enemy silenced…?
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

terly
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by terly »

I have a few friends and label bosses who I share my music with and they give me feedback, sometimes I tailor tracks to a label's specifications which is kind of soulless but as long as I can appreciate what they want it's ok.

In general I think music should be more personal and less about technical things. Technique is essential for making music, but sometimes I find artists will sacrifice music for technique.

I think good feedback is very valuable and it's hard to find community. The members tracks forum here is pretty good, but I like more personal feedback from someone who appreciates the sound one is going for. Most people can't give very good feedback because they don't personally connect with the music. Maybe that in itself is strong feedback, but when you are making subtle machine sounds of a particular obscure flavour, fewer people are even going to comment on it.

I think the big test is playing your own tracks out at shows and seeing how the dance floor or listeners react. And how it sounds on the system. Something can sound like absolute shit, but have a good dance floor reaction. In fact i'd say most dance music has a pretty harsh sound. Anyways, enough for now.

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jordanneke
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by jordanneke »

I'm not the most talented person in the room, ever, even in a creche, with a random child. So I don't have that problem.

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Hades
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by Hades »

kostas wrote: Maybe at some point in our life we had the feeling that ppl we are used to hang out with just don t get it. specially regarding music production the learning curve, we all know is very steep and craggy. and it takes a lot of guts to fight through the loneliness of the studio, while producing , expanding existing knowledge, researching, managing financials, work a day job , being a lover, a parent, a friend and a son... you know what I m talking about.
It's pretty rare to find anyone to properly understand how hard all this music production is once you start taking it seriously. But I think that goes for most things that are hard to learn and take years and years of practice.
Some people think you can get good at playing piano in maybe 2 years time, or they don't seem to understand you can't just play everything and even if you can play properly you still need to practice often enough or your skills will get worse again.
But yeah, sure thing, it's an extremely lonely thing.

I also find it sad how most of the time you'll always be the one amongst your friends with the "best" music taste. And I know taste is relative and all that, but you know, when you're hanging out with friends, and you're all taking turns putting on music, I'll pretty much always be the one picking the tune where everybody will go "yeah, what the hell is that". It's completely normal, I mean, you spend so many hours digging for good music, so of course you're most likely to pick the better tracks, but yeah...
I have this one friend of mine, we're constantly sending each other new music we discovered. I fucking love that. Never met a woman like that before. I absolutely love my mrs, but I do miss that in her.
Same thing with films though : I've watched thousands of films for years, and in the end there are very few people that can still amaze you with a film you never heard of.

kostas wrote: and at the end of the day when you are trying to spark a constructive conversation with somebody, anybody, about music production and the technical side of it, you know frequency spectrum, loudness levels, tips and tricks on the thing you are wasting(?) your life in, you get nothing but a great void.
...
the great question ‘’is it good enough’’ rephrasing itself to ‘’am I good enough’’ and this is the trap right here.
it's pretty normal not to be able to talk about production with someone who's not into it himself.
Compare it to talking about car parts with a non car mechanic.
This is when the internet becomes super handy.

And the self doubt... well, that's always gonna be there. It's also not helping (in my case) that we work with a DAW, which means you can always go back to your project and make more changes.
kostas wrote: How can you surround yourself with like minded people that love the thing that you love? How is it possible to ask a question and not to get the great silence as response?
Let' s come down to it , How you keep yourself motivated and the great enemy silenced…?
I think surrounding yourself with like minded people will only happen if you are pretty much a professional in this thing. Other than that, a lot also depends on your location. I can imagine it's pretty hard for a techno lover in Crète.

Keeping myself motivated gets harder and harder the older I get, especially because I've achieved some of the (smaller) goals I used to have before. But yeah, in the end it's always been about creating something beautiful that touches your soul, and hopefully might touch a few other people's soul. I feel less pressure than I used to feel a few years ago, but the self doubt will always be there.
I think it's a good thing to have self doubt. I seriously distrust people who have a big self esteem.
Sin cambios no hay mariposa


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kostas
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by kostas »

terly wrote:I have a few friends and label bosses who I share my music with and they give me feedback, sometimes I tailor tracks to a label's specifications which is kind of soulless but as long as I can appreciate what they want it's ok.
so I guess It s ok to confine yourself for the sake of a specific result. like you do something because it is part of the whole thing although you were going to do something different if it was completely in your hand. that is a flexible approach and it requires a developed cognitive control to stay on target even though you call it souless. it is a great asset what you have there
terly wrote: In general I think music should be more personal and less about technical things. Technique is essential for making music, but sometimes I find artists will sacrifice music for technique.
well I agree there are some minimum standards. nobody is going to appreciate a good idea if you can t deliver it right.
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

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kostas
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by kostas »

jordanneke wrote:I'm not the most talented person in the room, ever, even in a creche, with a random child. So I don't have that problem.
as a Greek I can appreciate comedy, which is the deconstruction of the drama. and you sir have deconstructed my dramatisation in a single line!! but a simple walk through your tracks jordanneke, makes it clear that there is a big amount of talent involved in the making. I m not suggesting that we have to congratulate ourselves, that would be narcissistic, but it s good to reference from time to time. and admit the bad aspects but also the good ones. it is an act of balance
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

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Lost to the Void
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by Lost to the Void »

Hello Kostas
Well, firstly, Lost to the Void (and Voidloss) means to be completely lost to the Void and accepting of it, embracing it. It is both a Tao te Ching and a Zen reference (read the last book of the Go Rin No Sho by Miyamato Musashi if you want a very condensed insight) and also about depression and darkness.

So... most of my friends are through music in some way, whether it be from bands I was in, soundsystem days, running labels, gigs, whatever. So most of the people I know are in to music. Not all of them are in to quite as diverse a range of music, but mostly they are.
However, we don`t talk about production very much, sometimes I might get asked a question as an "expert", but there is rarely anyone I can go to, unless it is gear advice.
Generally our conversations might be about music, but rarely the process. Other than that we just shoot the shit, politics, religion, that funny cat video, life, death blah blah.

I generally don`t share my music with my friends all that much either, I find it somehow embarrassing sharing my music with my close friends. They generally end up hearing it if it comes out as a release, or they see it being promo advertised, in which case I might ask them if they want a copy or whatever, but I generally find it all quite embarrassing and generally don`t talk about it unless asked.

The self will always be the "great enemy" as you put it.
It`s a double edged sword though, my inner critic keeps me pushing myself forwards, I mostly trust it, I`ve become pretty good at trusting myself and knowing when I am just throwing shit at a wall or doing "good work". Of course there comes bouts of crippling self doubt, but generally these are what I call phoenix moments.
You burn in the fire, but (hopefully) after that process you rise from the ashes, renewed.
I`m a fighter, I won`t be beaten, so once I have been burned, I dust myself off "right you fucker, prove them/yourself wrong, let`s move forwards and do something exceptional", and then I attack the music.
As Beckett said
" You must go on, that's all I know.

They're going to stop, I know that well: I can feel it. They're going to abandon me. It will be the silence, for a moment (a good few moments). Or it will be mine? The lasting one, that didn't last, that still lasts? It will be I?

You must go on.

I can't go on.

You must go on.

I'll go on. You must say words, as long as there are any - until they find me, until they say me. (Strange pain, strange sin!) You must go on. Perhaps it's done already. Perhaps they have said me already. Perhaps they have carried me to the threshold of my story, before the door that opens on my story. (That would surprise me, if it opens.)

It will be I? It will be the silence, where I am? I don't know, I'll never know: in the silence you don't know.

You must go on.

I can't go on.
...
..
...


I'll go on."
For me the great silence is a place to explore, it is where I am most comfortable. It`s a blank canvass.
I sit alone, generally at night, generally in the dark, and I make music out of silence.
It`s when I am most happy, just creating, just being in the moment, just finding these ideas in my head and making them in to things.
It`s these beautiful moments, when the fire of creativity lights up your mind, and you purge your emotions out in to sounds, that`s what keeps me motivated. Addicted. Entranced. Feedback is...... ok for my ego, but it`s not what drives me or motivates me. I try to get better because I want to get better.
I climb the mountain because the mountain is there to be climbed.
I guess it is taking the punk ethic of DIY to it`s ultimate conclusion really.
Do it yourself
Do it yourself for yourself.

Also places like this are good for camaraderie and getting your head out of that stuff for a little bit.
Mastering Engineer @ Black Monolith Studio
New Shit
Techno is dead. Long live Techno.

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kostas
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by kostas »

Hades wrote: It's completely normal, I mean, you spend so many hours digging for good music, so of course you're most likely to pick the better tracks, but yeah...
I m agreed to that and I ve never thought of it like this. we r getting somewhere now. I guess it s not just our tracks that needs feedback and referencing but we as whole and as personalities.
Hades wrote:
it's pretty normal not to be able to talk about production with someone who's not into it himself.
Compare it to talking about car parts with a non car mechanic.
This is when the internet becomes super handy.
I was actually referring to the lack of someone. I m not demanding from folks that are completely unrelated to the subject, to suddenly speak like audio engineers! but it would be great to have friends that are actually audio engineers!! and yes the internet is a salvation on this particular thing
Hades wrote:And the self doubt... well, that's always gonna be there. It's also not helping (in my case) that we work with a DAW, which means you can always go back to your project and make more changes.
wow , that s another gain for me today. like make a decision and commit to it if you keep coming back for the same thing then maybe all you need is some tough love. the thing is good as it is commit export and get on with your life!!
Hades wrote:I think it's a good thing to have self doubt. I seriously distrust people who have a big self esteem.
I will make sure to remember that from now on Hades!
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''

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winston
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by winston »

kostas wrote:''If you are the most talented person in the room, you must change room.’’
i thought “You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.”

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Hades
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by Hades »

this somehow reminds me of that wonderful saying :

a friend is someone who is always there when he needs you !

8-)
Sin cambios no hay mariposa


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Prophän
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by Prophän »

I really liked that quote , it does apply to many aspects in life, not only regarding techno production, but i'm still very far away from being the most talented person in the room, so for the moment, I'm still trying to get there :lol:

Luckily I recently became friends with some producers (one of them releases stuff on wunderblock) and I'm pretty sure the numbers of techno producers in morocco is less than 100, and we may talk sometimes about production techniques or production related stuff, but our main concern is creating a scene here (lot of hardwork) so I guess if even I in morocco can find some techno producer friends you should not have a hard time in europe.
Hades wrote: I'll pretty much always be the one picking the tune where everybody will go "yeah, what the hell is that"
sa

Happens to me all the time, when I pick up my friends and they enter the car and hear some weird sounds happening all over the place, they usually say something like "What the fuck is this music , it's stressing ,are you mad crazy or on drugs, please put on some good music", (Women do this more), so I end up playing some shitty french montana (famous rapper) or rick ross for them to shut up :roll:

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Hades
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by Hades »

Amon Derrich wrote:
Hades wrote: I'll pretty much always be the one picking the tune where everybody will go "yeah, what the hell is that"
sa

Happens to me all the time, when I pick up my friends and they enter the car and hear some weird sounds happening all over the place, they usually say something like "What the fuck is this music , it's stressing ,are you mad crazy or on drugs, please put on some good music", (Women do this more), so I end up playing some shitty french montana (famous rapper) or rick ross for them to shut up :roll:
actually meant that in a totally positive "what the fuck" way,
but yeah, if you have one of those moments, and the dames are lookers,
you just know what you should put on next... 8-)
;)
Sin cambios no hay mariposa


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kostas
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Re: If you are the most talented person in the room,change r

Post by kostas »

Lost to the Void wrote:Hello Kostas
Well, firstly, Lost to the Void (and Voidloss) means to be completely lost to the Void and accepting of it, embracing it. It is both a Tao te Ching and a Zen reference (read the last book of the Go Rin No Sho by Miyamato Musashi if you want a very condensed insight) and also about depression and darkness.
hi Voidloss
thanks for the suggestion it looks very interesting I always welcome a good read.
I like the concept of the phoenix. die and reborn. all comes in cycles.
I ll use another example as an allegory , the lobster!
lobsters have a panoply, an external protective layer to keep their inner soft body safe. but this protection don t grow in analogy of their inner body. so as the lobster grows he starts to feel uncomfortable inside his armor. so he s going into a hole , a cave or something , where he is dropping his old armor and he stays there till a newer bigger and stronger armor is being created. and only then he can go out of his hole and go on with his life!
and he understands when it s time to drag himself into the hole when he starts to feel uncomfortable.
because there would be no need for him to change the armor if he was feeling comfortable.
we understand the allegory here.
so I guess the first step to face the enemy is to realize this feeling of discomfort. is this the embracing that you talking about? or the acceptance.
Lost to the Void wrote:It`s a double edged sword though, my inner critic keeps me pushing myself forwards, I mostly trust it, I`ve become pretty good at trusting myself and knowing when I am just throwing shit at a wall or doing "good work".
well trust in ones self is a muscle. and as all muscles needs to be trained. and it has memory, you , yourself , you are remembering the way you deal things in everyday life, you are remembering the choices you have made. and I m not saying remembering all that in a sense that you live in the past where depression derives energy from, I mean it in the way where you train yourself. in a specific way. like we do in animals. we do it to ourselves. we carry the dna of the animal kingdom , it s not that simple to wash away the millions of years of evolution from out shoulders. but we can wash away the ego which is the only tool that our personalities have so we can understand the world. and here is the double sword that you mentioned. without ego we cannot understand the world. it would not made any sense at all, but it is ego that can return and bite us in the face. like a black dog that follows you around to use a well known example.
hm, ok that make sense. now I have to learn to train my self if I don t want to become an obstacle in my own way!
''We all have the equal amount of now. Got it? ... now go and make some good techno.''


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