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 Post subject: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:49 am 
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slipper
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I know this is nothing new, but just keen to get your thoughts on this.

If we know from past experience that a particular artist has done great work, does this influence your thoughts on all subsequent pieces that come after that??

Another way to put it;

- Big artist releases new track - everyone goes nuts over it and comments how the unusual aspects are innovative and fresh

- Unknown artist releases same track - no one cares...and/or it gets picked to pieces for all the problems with it



Just wondering how we can stay objective and only take each track on face value without any bias based on previous experience (not really possible if you ask me)

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:04 am 
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Richiie Hawtins latest is awesome. Have a listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:03 am 
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Provocative question.

Various thoughts on this.

Right at the top of the list, filters. We need filters to make sense of the oceans of information that reached saturation point a long time ago.

There are artists we trust through their consistent level of quality in their productions.

There are DJs we trust for the consistent quality of their sets.

There are labels we trust through the consistent quality of their output.

There’s social media we trust to filter quality releases and buy into their aesthetic.

All these mediums can become taste makers if executed correctly.

Big players on the scene can also be hugely influential in breaking new talent by remixing new and upcoming artists too.

It’s difficult now to work with music in any other way due the sheer volume of music produced and released each week.

I find as the years go on the process becomes easier to distinguish music of originality and quality on it’s own merits rather than the merits of any one of these mediums’ legacies.

Having seen the media hype merry-go-round so many times over I think it becomes easier but pointers and guidance are still required at some level as a starting point.

Real appreciation of music is though ultimately subjective even though consensus of opinion has to play a part at some level for any kind of scene generated.

Probably just scratching the surface here and it's a personal opinion but that's my starter for 10...


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:10 am 
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What you're discussing is just human psychology in all it's depressing glory. ;-) The same principles apply to lots of fields. Look into selection bias (and other types of cognitive dissonance) if you're interested in the ways people assimilate new information to fit what they already think is true. If you already think an artist is "good" you're more likely to not want to change your perception.

Also you can probably add into this a certain social status, or socially acceptable behavior. Which no doubt occurs in smaller sub cultures as much as larger ones. If someone is accepted generally to be good, it's easier to just conform (probably happens subconciously).

A third point would also just be one of practicallity. Bigger name, going to reach more ears, more chance of people buying the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:10 am 
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oh 4th point. Maybe they are actually just good haha


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:29 am 
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I often find I'll hear a track whilst record shopping, won't be too fussed by it


Then i'll either hear it out or in a mix and i'll be all "man that track is sick" and my perception is completely changed. Maybe it's hearing it in context, or maybe it's because a name DJ is playing it. I'm fully open and honest that is possible.

Either way, it's happened enough that I noticed it, but also made me give a lot of tracks a second try and made me appreciate them more. So it's not fully a bad thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I can only speak from personal experience but I find myself far more critical these days of established producers particularly where they work a signature sound. Plenty of idols from previous years that I've stopped buying their releases in recent or fairly recent times because their current output just doesn't come close to their historic achievements or way too similar.

Same for record labels.

As for shops online or otherwise that expect me to buy into their oh so credible (see narrow) listening aesthetic.

Please, please, please just fuck off and let me form my own opinion :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Knowing your biases enables you to keep growing as a person and artist.

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:23 pm 
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rktic wrote:
Knowing your biases enables you to keep growing as a person and artist.


Agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:30 pm 
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I listen to so much music now as part of my job I have become numb to names, which is kinda awesome.
I just listen to stuff and if I like it then I like it.
Also conversely you see hype over stuff where it's just .....what? Really? This?

People are very succeptable to influences, selection bias etc.

I try to live within an anarchistic philosophy to keep myself free of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:49 pm 
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rktic wrote:
Knowing your biases enables you to keep growing as a person and artist.


I second that. You really have to be self-reflective to check if you just go after a trademark or after sound. One big obstacle is that in western countries we are socialized to follow trademarks more than quality. This is some fundamental capitalistic logic, that's working here. Better go for some anarchy in techno, like void is saying!

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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Root wrote:
One big obstacle is that in western countries we are socialized to follow trademarks more than quality. This is some fundamental capitalistic logic, that's working here. Better go for some anarchy in techno, like void is saying!


I wouldn't say that it's capitalistic logic, we have many options to choose (although this may mean that you get the same shit just in different color for different price), more like a comfortable and energy saving option.

"Quality" is a big label, represents many factors, aspects. Performance, features, aesthetics, perceived quality and many more. While choosing a product for example a new jacket I want to be over this subject as soon as possible , I don't know the latest trends, just don't want to get cold at winter nights. I know columbia, rossignol, spiderco and some other brands which are expensive, but are reliable for a long time, or atleast, thats what their trademark stands for, quality winter-outdoor equipment. So I get my jacket, it fulfills my needs, so it's a quality product. But this does not mean, that it will be good for someone else.

What I am trying to say, is that sometimes I am lazy in music too, even if it plays a huge role in my life. Go for a boiler room . ., dubfire or similar commerce, simple 4x4 mix, and listen to it in the background, while doing my work. When I prepare a mix or listen to music actually, I dig deeper, and look for "quality" music, which grabs my attention and can enjoy it fully. I wouldn't be able to finish my work for example for any of Steve's live sets, or Jordan's shredding vibes. They are too cool for my taste to have them only in the background.

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:31 pm 
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0xa wrote:
Root wrote:
One big obstacle is that in western countries we are socialized to follow trademarks more than quality. This is some fundamental capitalistic logic, that's working here. Better go for some anarchy in techno, like void is saying!


I wouldn't say that it's capitalistic logic, we have many options to choose (although this may mean that you get the same shit just in different color for different price), more like a comfortable and energy saving option.


I think you're totally right. This goes beyond captialism it's a wider human issue. Our brains are big espensive tools to run and as such we're wired to take shortcuts. What is actually happening is capitalism often hijacks base human behaviors, but it is not the root cause.

The reason we buy into brands is the same way we buy into celebrity. We take lazy shortcuts. I want to be a successful sportsman, rather than figure out exactly what makes person X successful, just copy everything and hope it works. Same reason we judge peoples personality characteristics based on facial features.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Some very interesting points so far.

In a related but maybe tangential aspect, would unknown artists tracks be "better" if they had a big budget (including access to better facilities) and more time to refine their ideas (and skills)??

Or would this just lead to the old "you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd" issue (ie if the idea is not fundamentally "good", then it doesn't matter what you do to it).

I think we are getting wiser to the ways of the "machine" but in some ways it's also getting harder to find the real gold these days due to the pure volume of material available.

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:55 am 
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You'd think it should always just be about the music, but we all know that's just not how it works in this world. In my eyes, mediocre shit is just that, regardless of whose name is attached to it. Disregarding starstruck fanboys, some people don't take the time to try and find good music from lesser known names, so they probably don't know any better and thus reinforcing the status quo.

I guess another explanation could be, that when someone comes out with something amazing/inspiring/whatever, they build up 'credit' so people will look at all possible mediocrity following this feat more forgivingly.

Maybe my views are a bit negative on this matter, I've been disappointed one too many times getting my hopes for some new release when all they were doing was apparently pumping out shit to stay 'relevant'.

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:02 am 
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Kromasome wrote:
Some very interesting points so far.

In a related but maybe tangential aspect, would unknown artists tracks be "better" if they had a big budget (including access to better facilities) and more time to refine their ideas (and skills)??

Or would this just lead to the old "you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd" issue (ie if the idea is not fundamentally "good", then it doesn't matter what you do to it).

I think we are getting wiser to the ways of the "machine" but in some ways it's also getting harder to find the real gold these days due to the pure volume of material available.


Big budgets are massively overrated imo, all you'd need is an old laptop with some freeware vsts and learn everything you've got inside out, if your ideas are on the money there will be little holding you back. You're right regarding the time aspect, only what would you do with a big budget that would improve your sound so dramatically, I wonder...

Fair point about polishing turds, though it's one of my favourite hobbies :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:57 pm 
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I have thought about this topic many times. I always try to remain as unbiased as possible when judging other productions. I think your perception of a person can have a big influence on how you perceive the quality of a track.


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 Post subject: Re: Perceptions based on previous experience
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:53 am 
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Kromasome wrote:
In a related but maybe tangential aspect, would unknown artists tracks be "better" if they had a big budget (including access to better facilities) and more time to refine their ideas (and skills)??


Depends on whether the artist is able to put those resources to good use or not. Schroedingers Cat all along ;)

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