Injecting politics into techno

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chava
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by chava »

hyperloop wrote:
Amøbe wrote: Well for the depressing side of utopia, I can recommend Mark Fisher's - R.I.P. - Capitalist Realism, which in short is about the depressing state of being anti-capitalistic and then being forced to see that the world will not accept any other systems after the crisis in '07 (where if you were really idealistic you could've believed that the banks would end up paying for beeing too greedy, and we would then figure out a new and more social society)

/.../

And Deleuze is definitely not something you read to pass the time, but I find him quite rewarding to dwelve into.
!!!

Capitalist Realism (read just last month) is really a gem and so is Fishers blog k-punk. Stylistically impeccable.
My current mind-fuel is the concept of the "Antropocene" and its derived&related conversations (chthulucene, capitalocene – silly as they may seem) and the related but separate idea of accelerationism…
Deleuze (& Guattari) really is a cornerstone in the conversation around electronic music – do dwelve into. (But don't take it so seriously you name your label after one of his books… No seriously don't)
I find the idea of Accelerationism quite dangerous. It seems it implies something like run the system to the ground until it breaks no matter what it takes. This seems not unlike something out of fascist or communist ideologies from 100 years ago. I can't see why we need that. Also current neo-marxist critiques of capitalist societies really has to come up with a novel idea for a valid alternative.
Agree on Mark Fisher and the rest of the UK bloggers from 00s, though - they really did a lot to resurge music writing, but also too indebted to post-structuralist theory in my opinion.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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chava wrote:I find the idea of Accelerationism quite dangerous. It seems it implies something like run the system to the ground until it breaks no matter what it takes. This seems not unlike something out of fascist or communist ideologies from 100 years ago. I can't see why we need that. Also current neo-marxist critiques of capitalist societies really has to come up with a novel idea for a valid alternative.
Agree on Mark Fisher and the rest of the UK bloggers from 00s, though - they really did a lot to resurge music writing, but also too indebted to post-structuralist theory in my opinion.
If you do some digging you'll find that Fisher (and, I think, Simon Reynolds) were involved with the infamous CCRU back in the nineties… :))
Agreed on the risks and dangers of the accelerationist idea, taken as such. It is provocative – nothing inherently bad in that though?
Nick Lands psychotic collapse into fascism and the rise of the "alt-right" and associated movements poses some very relevant questions on how human society deals with technological progress. I don't buy it as a political program. Still haven't read enough to tell you exactly what I like about it… I'll get back on that :))
But as an impetus/avenue for musical explorations it is interesting (because it has to do with technology)!
chava wrote:How do you see this? I always viewed Kraftwerk as arch-modernists in some way. I mean their music has almost classical elements. They certainly have an ironic distance and the robots thing are obviously tongue-in-cheek (but not a joke either), but I don't find it in any way nihilist or sarcastic in any way.
My field of study is architecture, so my understanding of the term "post-modernist" is perhaps a bit different from its common usage. I do not mean post-modernists as nihilist or necessarily ironic. It is more about a celebratory nostalgia coupled with ambiguity towards the idea of progress. Architectural post-modernism (the "first" post-modernism, some say) is exactly that: classical elements, modern methods and a lighthearted attempt at transcending cultural-historical divisions… A lot of that in Kraftwerk (Radioaktivität!). They seem obsessed with synthesis as a cultural–metaphysical concept, that informs their musical use of… synthesizers.

This is I guess slightly off topic so I'll stop there.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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hyperloop wrote:sorta skimmed the thread but anyway:
personally I feel more like I am injecting music into politics, if you get what I mean…
98% of whatever sonic stuff I've made over the years, techno, noise, ambient, even the odd juke/ghettotech sketch has been the result of some political frustration that particular day


I think people looking to do "politics" in techno music and related genres often start at the wrong end. It's more about the affective, emotional component of politics – that, or theoretical or philosophical themes rather than "issues". Like anger, nostalgia, or perhaps this idea of "hauntology"…
This is imo the only way to approach the subject, 'injecting'politics into techno (or into anything unrelated to it really) will only serve your own sense of importance/righteousness or whatever you want to call it, the number of people who were at a party, and heard a political quote fly past, and then changed their opinion or even started to think deeply about it, is probably close to zero.


What most likely is going to happen, is that the people who already share your opinion will seek out your brand of politics and start patting themselves on the back, creating a cricle jerk of people who share your political ideals, and happen to like the same things.

Still you could choose to create anything based on your ideas/beliefs if it inspires you, which has always of course been a great force behind art. So if you'd manage not to lay it on too thick, on the one hand it could at least make people think, though on the other most people who you'd want to reach with it will stay oblivious to your intended message, if only because in reality it's fucking hard to convince anyone of anything if they don't already somewhat doubt their own ideas somewhere in the back of their mind.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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vo0doo wrote:This is imo the only way to approach the subject, 'injecting'politics into techno (or into anything unrelated to it really) will only serve your own sense of importance/righteousness or whatever you want to call it, the number of people who were at a party, and heard a political quote fly past, and then changed their opinion or even started to think deeply about it, is probably close to zero.

What most likely is going to happen, is that the people who already share your opinion will seek out your brand of politics and start patting themselves on the back, creating a cricle jerk of people who share your political ideals, and happen to like the same things.
Sorry, but that's BS.

For a start the scumbags are never going to give up, they're programmed not to and there will be replacement generations to continue their legacy. 2017 and we have people burning in tower blocks and children stealing ketchup sachets out of restaurants as their only source of food. And that's just in the UK, can't even think about global injustices before near to breaking down. So no, nobody should ever be silenced by the fact it doesn't change anything and you're embarrassing for trying. Which is itself a notion perpetuated by those in power that only serve their own interests.

As for the circle jerk comment, yeah maybe we all join rubbish little groups at uni, hunt sab or whatever but from little acorns. The fall out from the Scottish independence referendum was that many people got politicized and are now no longer content to give those acting in the interests of corporations a free ride. See also the momentum Corbyn had in the last UK election and it's longer lasting affect. People are waking up to the fact that it's not longer acceptable that they pay more in personal tax than all of Apple.

Whether you support these issues or not, a young person that predominately lives for the weekend and partying but still watches the news and votes is a good thing. And they're going to take their cues at Glastonbury rather than the broadsheet newspapers.

There's obviously a point regarding time and place and I've personally told people to "give it rest", especially post club when all anyone wants is soothing music and to avoid the next garage run. But music is far richer and a better place for the likes of Crass, Dead Kennedys right through to Underground Resistance.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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hyperloop wrote: If you do some digging you'll find that Fisher (and, I think, Simon Reynolds) were involved with the infamous CCRU back in the nineties… :))
Agreed on the risks and dangers of the accelerationist idea, taken as such. It is provocative – nothing inherently bad in that though?
Nick Lands psychotic collapse into fascism and the rise of the "alt-right" and associated movements poses some very relevant questions on how human society deals with technological progress. I don't buy it as a political program. Still haven't read enough to tell you exactly what I like about it… I'll get back on that :))
But as an impetus/avenue for musical explorations it is interesting (because it has to do with technology)!
Yeah CCRU had some impact, that Nick Land guy was the main man back then. Kind a scary type in some ways. Recently bought Malign Velocities which is a critique of Accelerationism from a left viewpoint, will try to get around reading it soon. I like to see a more profound conservative critique as well - should be obvious, but still. You should always worry when people start talking about bringing "the system" down!

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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[wesellboxes] wrote:
Sorry, but that's BS.

For a start the scumbags are never going to give up, they're programmed not to and there will be replacement generations to continue their legacy. 2017 and we have people burning in tower blocks and children stealing ketchup sachets out of restaurants as their only source of food. And that's just in the UK, can't even think about global injustices before near to breaking down. So no, nobody should ever be silenced by the fact it doesn't change anything and you're embarrassing for trying. Which is itself a notion perpetuated by those in power that only serve their own interests.
Since the moment these things happened, there was no magical turn of events where the rich donated their unused living space, and the world became a paradise where no one has to go hungry. No one wrote a song about the burning tower blocks making everyone realise instantly how wrong it is to just let people be burned alive for profit. Everyone knows right from wrong to some degree, what you can't change is how far people are willing to go to chase their goals.

How used are we to seeing starving people on tv, and how many stories of war can you take watching the news before you switch channels, or do you buy a plane ticket and start killing the guys you think are in the wrong.

Or you could write a song about it, that people who agree with you will buy, and then.... You've earned a bunch of money on the backs of the disenfranchised, congratulations. How many political bands are also actively trying to change the system, or is enough that they preach to the choir every once in a while?

As for the circle jerk comment, yeah maybe we all join rubbish little groups at uni, hunt sab or whatever but from little acorns. The fall out from the Scottish independence referendum was that many people got politicized and are now no longer content to give those acting in the interests of corporations a free ride. See also the momentum Corbyn had in the last UK election and it's longer lasting affect. People are waking up to the fact that it's not longer acceptable that they pay more in personal tax than all of Apple.

Whether you support these issues or not, a young person that predominately lives for the weekend and partying but still watches the news and votes is a good thing. And they're going to take their cues at Glastonbury rather than the broadsheet newspapers.
Change comes from within, it's been beaten to death but re: politics i ahve yet to see evidence of the contrary.

The world is a fucked up place, starting a movement can be a catalyst for change, which again only has a chance of taking off when you find enough people with similar convictions/experiences that at the very least, somewhere deep down feel the same about it as you do.

Not arguing against politics as an inspiration for music, some of the worlds greatest music has been inspired by everything that's wrong with the world, that's why I'm only arguing it as highly unlikely to be a catalyst of change in the world.



For example I think it's pretty neat that the UK is leaning toward the liberal side again with Corbyn and the EU independence, but again, is that really happening because someone decided to inject politics into something unrelated to start a chain reaction, or were people just fed up and starting to realise that if they don't vote, the other side wins?



There's obviously a point regarding time and place and I've personally told people to "give it rest", especially post club when all anyone wants is soothing music and to avoid the next garage run. But music is far richer and a better place for the likes of Crass, Dead Kennedys right through to Underground Resistance.

You're reacting like I said it should never be done, so let me rephrase that: In the end it's going to be all about the way you approach it, if it's something you want to do but don't knwo how, I'd say leave it until you really feel inspired by something which could translate seamlessly into your music. Just to prevent it from coming across forced.

Of course music can inflict emotion and even inspire generations even, so in that regard it might be a great device to influence people (subconsciously or not), but it only has a chance of working when they have doubts about their opinion already.

It also means that if you just tack it on it's going to be a hollow statement.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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vo0doo wrote:Since the moment these things happened, there was no magical turn of events <snip> Everyone knows right from wrong to some degree, what you can't change is how far people are willing to go to chase their goals.
Of course there isn't and you're right about the will of the determined which makes it all the more important to counter. However frivolous that may appear to be.
vo0doo wrote:You've earned a bunch of money on the backs of the disenfranchised, congratulations. How many political bands are also actively trying to change the system, or is enough that they preach to the choir every once in a while?
Rage, Crass, Chumbawamba, The Cure, Pulp, Radiohead, Manic Street Preachers and even The Beautiful South are all bands that done well from sales and have put time and money into causes and groups away from the cameras. I know Mike Banks and Mike Huckaby are forever running workshops and even little league baseball. I'm sure there are more. Not to mention outright philanthropy from megastars like Dave Gilmour.
vo0doo wrote:Change comes from within, it's been beaten to death but re: politics i ahve yet to see evidence of the contrary.
True but a musician can be the inspiration that inspires that change in just one person. Or look it from the flip side, I wonder how many guys were "saved" from the allure of the far right through ska, reggae or 2-tone.
vo0doo wrote:is that really happening because someone decided to inject politics into something unrelated to start a chain reaction, or were people just fed up and starting to realise that if they don't vote, the other side wins?
Good point. I believe it's an amalgamation of everything. To give you an analogy, if I wanted to sell you a brand new fizzy drink it's estimated I would it would need 20 different interactions for you to even register it eg a TV ad, billboard, Facebook ad, bus shelter etc etc. As 20 times, you *may* be in the supermarket and think, hey's that Brand X, I might try a can of that.

The same with politics. Sure major events and grand gestures may get to the bulk of people but there's the other interactions, especially if you're going to inspire actual change rather beyond the apathetic "yeah it's wrong but what can you do." There was a high youth vote turn out in the last election and that was as much down to some daft meme or Stormzy as it was the abolishing student fees. I guess, there is no singular catalyst for change anymore.
vo0doo wrote:You're reacting like I said it should never be done, so let me rephrase that: <snip>
All good points, I agree with.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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I don't understand all this bullshit about changing something.
If you make political commentary it won't change anything?
I just don't even understand that way of thinking?

It's not about changing the fucking world it's (for me) more about an icebreaker to start a conversation. An introduction to dialogue and also a form of solidarity.
"Oh you think that too? I am not alone".

If you think you will never change anything then nothing will ever change.
Getting people talking is a good thing.

I'm an anarchist, a lot of people know this and it has become more apparent in the imagery I put out as well as my music (along with my occultism).
Wherever I go for gigs or whatever, I generally get asked about one or the other. Some people think it is just an affectation and want to challenge me on it, until we begin a conversation and they find out I am for real. Some people are genuinely interested why I am in to these things.
The amount of people who I have explained what anarchism really is, is a decent number. Same with the occult.
If it is causing people to think, then that IS making a change.

Personally from a quite young age my thinking on many things was informed through bands I was in to. Crass and the anarcho punk movement, the various eclectic philosophies, art movements, occult practices, and political alternatives that were presented to me through the industrial music movement really opened my mind. These are just a few examples.

It's not about directly changing anything but about opening doors, starting conversations and creating intrigue, asking questions or pushing people to ask questions.

Music can be very influential in that respect, as can any artform.

Through Francis Bacon, who's art I discovered from a young age, and William Burroughs, both openly homosexual, I lost any prejudice against homosexuals quite early on, and discovered the prejudices they faced, the lives they led, their loves and losses. If my favourite artists were gay, how could being gay be wrong?

Of course art can cause change.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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You're away for a week and this thread still lives on :D I love it!

Just a quick comment for now - Mr. Void don't you think that starting a conversation is changing the world? That's my naive idea of how changes will come around for good (the sun is shining so I'm positive today :) )

There's a lot going on in this thread and I would like to keep on discussing with you guys :) K-punk and all that stuff is definitely something I like to talk on about :)

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Lost to the Void wrote:
Through Francis Bacon, who's art I discovered from a young age, and William Burroughs, both openly homosexual, I lost any prejudice against homosexuals quite early on, and discovered the prejudices they faced, the lives they led, their loves and losses. If my favourite artists were gay, how could being gay be wrong?

Of course art can cause change.
What if your favorite artists were fascists? Like the futurists.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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What if they were?

The right wing can have as much influence as any other.

The whole white power movement in the US, for example, has a very strong musical scene around it, which seems to provide them a rallying call and an entry point in some ways.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Lost to the Void wrote:I don't understand all this bullshit about changing something.
If you make political commentary it won't change anything?
I just don't even understand that way of thinking?

It's not about directly changing anything but about opening doors, starting conversations and creating intrigue, asking questions or pushing people to ask questions.

Music can be very influential in that respect, as can any artform.

Of course art can cause change.
In my opinion art predicts change in stead of direct causing it. The best and most creative artists integrate their unconscious, but detailed, perception of the world way before the rest of us. They integrate new ways of seeing, hearing, feeling, thinking and organizing through their artforms based on deeper, less manifest changes in the surrounding societal landscape. These ideas and perspectives are then later spread to the rest of the society and implemented institutionally - and then, of course, eventually become cliches within the art world itself.

Where the actual and initial change is coming from is hard to figure out, but art definitely has a role in making very complex political and societal changes comprenhensible.

The banner-weaving rockstars does not cause much change, though. That's mostly rehashed political ideas without much effect than mere signalling.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Oh of course, on that level it can become posturing, people like Bono.....

Though some can do good also.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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youtu.be/7Mh8T6MZQm8


But seriously, the artists that actually have something worthwhile to say rarely get a podium, while we are being flooded by the byproducts of the capitalist counterrevolution :evil:
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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chava wrote:Yeah CCRU had some impact, that Nick Land guy was the main man back then. Kind a scary type in some ways. Recently bought Malign Velocities which is a critique of Accelerationism from a left viewpoint, will try to get around reading it soon. I like to see a more profound conservative critique as well - should be obvious, but still. You should always worry when people start talking about bringing "the system" down!
Nice, forgot about that one, I'll be getting it from the local university library as soon as I can – and am done with the #ACCELERATE anthology…

edit: ofc i meant to write "Noys, forgot about that one /…/"
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by Jester »

jordanneke wrote:Ok,
I'm quite political, and I'd like to know if there is anyway to get a message over in techno (house) without singing. I mean i'm barely able to string 10 tracks together into a coherent rhythm and a basic melody, so singing/ lyric speaking just won't happen.

This is NOT a plug for one of my tracks btw, but this is my attempt that I did a year ago, involving a speech that I really like the context of, but it wasn't really effective.

This track has just inspired me.
I appreciate.
Cheers!


EDIT: And to add something ontopic:

Sure it's possible to give music at least a political colour. You can catch several images by their ambience sounds, e.g. ambient sounds of press conferences, demonstrations and riots, news broadcast and so on..
Thats a usual approach, isn't it?

What I think is, that the track title takes a huge part on transmitting the actual message in combination with the track itself. One or few words to give you an initial idea and the track to serve the imagination/phantasy/whatever goes on in minds while listening

Cheers

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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I think it's dangerous to pinpoint political systems to single persons (well maybe in the case of Thatcher and Reagan they were quite strong and dominating leaders, so they actually have quite a bit of personal responsibility). I don't believe in messiah figures (like Bono and that dude that played Roger Waters/Syd Barrett in The Wall and also the mastermind behind live aid) and I also don't believe the problem lies in a single person (like that crazy Nigel guy in UK). What I do believe in are movements. And here I think music has its greatest function. Support politically loaded events - don't be the political movement but be a part of it. Don't solve a problem, because I honestly only see single-solutions as a way of ending up massively disappointed. Instead solve a mindset - support a movement. And I honestly think that if a movement is fun its easier to get people to join you - so I wouldn't worry so much about the political statements of your tracks as I would try to let it be used in a political manor. If this succeeds this will in turn make your music political through a feedback loop.


Oh and did anybody read this write-up on accelerationism by The Guardian? I find it to be really good https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... we-live-in


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