Injecting politics into techno

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Lost to the Void
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by Lost to the Void »

I suppose everything can be looked at as political, it doesn't have to be party politics.
Nor does it have to be "telling people what to think"
It can be more about sharing ideas, thoughts and emotions. Comradery.
Trying to make a deeper connection with the audience. Have a conversation.

For me it's nice to get a response of "Yes, I feel that way too" rather than just "banging tune mate".
It makes all those dark nights alone raging against the world just a little more worth it.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by Amøbe »

Okay - I'm in the middle of doing academic papers in another field, so you won't get the big answer with loads of footnotes, but here's some of the classical (academic) ways to view techno as political:

- It's utopian in that it imagines new worlds (that synthesis often isn't used as mimesis)
- It's decentralized music - there's often no melody that is in power, instead it's collsions (or interactions) of juxtaposed sounds. The way the music is mostly heard - that's when it's being played out in a DJ-set - also makes it impossible to say, who made what, who are we to praise (...you could argue against it by saying that there are some totalitarian tendencies as of late by people all staring at the DJ and follow his guidelines) - Gilles Deleuze's few pieces on music are great for a better understanding of this.
- It's anti-establishment. It does not produce hits that fit into the way society structurally tells us to hear music (no radio play)
- The rave is a utopian place, where you don't abide the laws of society, but - ideally - get together in a safe anarchistic enviroment (anarchy is not equal just destroying things, but instead it means the refusal of tyranny... like laws, teachers, police, the government etc.)

So there's a few political aspects that has nothing to do with lyrics, but instead distribution and aesthetics.

...and then there's the afrofuturistic side! (I might get back on that one later)

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by Amøbe »

Oh and you can always write something political on the sleeve of the record... that's a classic.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by Squill »

Lost to the Void wrote:One of the reasons I'm doing more confrontational stuff is I think techno has become totally borgoise. Having lost its ties to both the original Detroit movement, underground resistance etc, and the 90's politicism of raves, CJA, PLUR etc it has just become, to an extent, a soundtrack to debauchery and not much else.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by chava »

Amøbe wrote:Okay - I'm in the middle of doing academic papers in another field, so you won't get the big answer with loads of footnotes, but here's some of the classical (academic) ways to view techno as political:

- It's utopian in that it imagines new worlds (that synthesis often isn't used as mimesis)
- It's decentralized music - there's often no melody that is in power, instead it's collsions (or interactions) of juxtaposed sounds. The way the music is mostly heard - that's when it's being played out in a DJ-set - also makes it impossible to say, who made what, who are we to praise (...you could argue against it by saying that there are some totalitarian tendencies as of late by people all staring at the DJ and follow his guidelines) - Gilles Deleuze's few pieces on music are great for a better understanding of this.
- It's anti-establishment. It does not produce hits that fit into the way society structurally tells us to hear music (no radio play)
- The rave is a utopian place, where you don't abide the laws of society, but - ideally - get together in a safe anarchistic enviroment (anarchy is not equal just destroying things, but instead it means the refusal of tyranny... like laws, teachers, police, the government etc.)

So there's a few political aspects that has nothing to do with lyrics, but instead distribution and aesthetics.

...and then there's the afrofuturistic side! (I might get back on that one later)
I somehow agree that this was the vision of the rave movement. But this was way back. And you might consider where all this utopianism has gone and the thing is realizations of anarchist utopias have a tendency to degenerate into the opposite. How many of these are still left? Somewhere I read the only anti-establishment 'communes' that really have longevity are the religious ones.

And the anti-hierarchical thing as well; it is completely untenable: hierarchies breakdown and new ones appear. I mean it is not like any old techno track is as good as the next one, is it? I am not one who miss the old Spiral tribe tracks either, they were horrible.

I can recommend a recent documentary on this "RAGE" by the way. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5adcIUuZE

Force Inc was the only real political label active back in the 90s and it was started by a real Deleuze fan, but has that guy ever written anything that was comprehensible?

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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To me all this underground/alternative scene thing, due to its origins in marginalized groups etc by itself should be already political, as it opposes to an established mainframe or values. Techno in particular, especially the most angsty and/or sullen strands of it (that seem to gain more relevance around periods of economic struggle) could and should be a good vehicle of politics. Even if just as a rejection of the overall state of things in the world, particularly the finance bullshit that is going on.

Many people, of course, don't seem very interested in deepening this concept and choose the scene just to alienate themselves and get trashed (Not judging).

Where I live, Taipei, mainstream clubs are extreme examples of the exclusively profit-oriented road. They will do whatever it takes to maximize profits. Nothing wrong with making money, but how I normally say, in this case it's a no different business than a slaughterhouse that produces meat. No one has a passion for selling sausages. They do it for the money. (And they make obscene amounts of it). Same goes to EDM and so on and so forth.

Having said this (and sorry for the already long reply), for me, being part or even only frequenting this type of scene represents a question of thinking independently, questioning stuff and choosing what one wants, in opposition of what the masses do without thinking and what the big corporations are trying to push you to swallow, just to fill their filthy pockets (being mainstream dclubs just another face of and a reflection of a bigger problem).

I know in reality things are different and many people don't give a shit. But, oh well... call me naive or idealist.

For many of you this is basic but actually many people don't give a royal crap. But I think there's solid ground here. We just didn't find the right way of exploring this.

P.s. a shoutout for all the accommodated artists that don't approach these subjects by trying to maintain neutrality in fear of losing fans.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Amøbe wrote:Okay - I'm in the middle of doing academic papers in another field, so you won't get the big answer with loads of footnotes, but here's some of the classical (academic) ways to view techno as political:

- It's utopian in that it imagines new worlds (that synthesis often isn't used as mimesis)
- It's decentralized music - there's often no melody that is in power, instead it's collsions (or interactions) of juxtaposed sounds. The way the music is mostly heard - that's when it's being played out in a DJ-set - also makes it impossible to say, who made what, who are we to praise (...you could argue against it by saying that there are some totalitarian tendencies as of late by people all staring at the DJ and follow his guidelines) - Gilles Deleuze's few pieces on music are great for a better understanding of this.
- It's anti-establishment. It does not produce hits that fit into the way society structurally tells us to hear music (no radio play)
- The rave is a utopian place, where you don't abide the laws of society, but - ideally - get together in a safe anarchistic enviroment (anarchy is not equal just destroying things, but instead it means the refusal of tyranny... like laws, teachers, police, the government etc.)

So there's a few political aspects that has nothing to do with lyrics, but instead distribution and aesthetics.

...and then there's the afrofuturistic side! (I might get back on that one later)
interesting!
SubTPE wrote: Where I live, Taipei
don't want to derail the thread as it is very interesting, but do you have a few recommendations of clubs in Taipei? i'm going there for a few months in the Autumn

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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SubTPE wrote:To me all this underground/alternative scene thing, due to its origins in marginalized groups etc by itself should be already political, as it opposes to an established mainframe or values. Techno in particular, especially the most angsty and/or sullen strands of it (that seem to gain more relevance around periods of economic struggle) could and should be a good vehicle of politics. Even if just as a rejection of the overall state of things in the world, particularly the finance bullshit that is going on.

Many people, of course, don't seem very interested in deepening this concept and choose the scene just to alienate themselves and get trashed (Not judging).

Where I live, Taipei, mainstream clubs are extreme examples of the exclusively profit-oriented road. They will do whatever it takes to maximize profits. Nothing wrong with making money, but how I normally say, in this case it's a no different business than a slaughterhouse that produces meat. No one has a passion for selling sausages. They do it for the money. (And they make obscene amounts of it). Same goes to EDM and so on and so forth.

Having said this (and sorry for the already long reply), for me, being part or even only frequenting this type of scene represents a question of thinking independently, questioning stuff and choosing what one wants, in opposition of what the masses do without thinking and what the big corporations are trying to push you to swallow, just to fill their filthy pockets (being mainstream dclubs just another face of and a reflection of a bigger problem).

I know in reality things are different and many people don't give a shit. But, oh well... call me naive or idealist.

For many of you this is basic but actually many people don't give a royal crap. But I think there's solid ground here. We just didn't find the right way of exploring this.

P.s. a shoutout for all the accommodated artists that don't approach these subjects by trying to maintain neutrality in fear of losing fans.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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chava wrote:
Amøbe wrote:
I somehow agree that this was the vision of the rave movement. But this was way back. And you might consider where all this utopianism has gone and the thing is realizations of anarchist utopias have a tendency to degenerate into the opposite. How many of these are still left? Somewhere I read the only anti-establishment 'communes' that really have longevity are the religious ones.

And the anti-hierarchical thing as well; it is completely untenable: hierarchies breakdown and new ones appear. I mean it is not like any old techno track is as good as the next one, is it? I am not one who miss the old Spiral tribe tracks either, they were horrible.

I can recommend a recent documentary on this "RAGE" by the way. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB5adcIUuZE

Force Inc was the only real political label active back in the 90s and it was started by a real Deleuze fan, but has that guy ever written anything that was comprehensible?
You saw that under CPH : DOX, aswell? ;)

Well for the depressing side of utopia, I can recommend Mark Fisher's - R.I.P. - Capitalist Realism, which in short is about the depressing state of being anti-capitalistic and then being forced to see that the world will not accept any other systems after the crisis in '07 (where if you were really idealistic you could've believed that the banks would end up paying for beeing too greedy, and we would then figure out a new and more social society)

But I would mostly agree with you - but I also very easily become cynic (I'm from the western part of Jutland, so that's the natural way for me to act ;) ). I don't think - and this is probably something along what was also being said in RAGE - that utopias can be stable. Because you're right about that the "anarchists" tend to destroy what they're fighting for... but then along comes the young - at the moment I'm quite fascinated with what is happening in Valby, and that's also hierarchic as fuck. It seems like, it's a hard time making techno in copenhagen unless it's those distorted 90s rave-sounding tracks you're going for (and those are great, by the way :D )

And Deleuze is definitely not something you read to pass the time, but I find him quite rewarding to dwelve into.
Last edited by Amøbe on Mon May 15, 2017 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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SubTPE wrote:To me all this underground/alternative scene thing, due to its origins in marginalized groups etc by itself should be already political, as it opposes to an established mainframe or values. Techno in particular, especially the most angsty and/or sullen strands of it (that seem to gain more relevance around periods of economic struggle) could and should be a good vehicle of politics. Even if just as a rejection of the overall state of things in the world, particularly the finance bullshit that is going on.
Where I am (Denmark) techno is a pure (upper) middle class white and hardly marginalized thing. Granted, that's based on anecdotal evidence and due old age I might be seriously out of touch, but I fail to see any political motive whatsoever within the 'scene' other than paying lip service when appropriate to the UR credo or something similar.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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chava wrote:
SubTPE wrote:To me all this underground/alternative scene thing, due to its origins in marginalized groups etc by itself should be already political, as it opposes to an established mainframe or values. Techno in particular, especially the most angsty and/or sullen strands of it (that seem to gain more relevance around periods of economic struggle) could and should be a good vehicle of politics. Even if just as a rejection of the overall state of things in the world, particularly the finance bullshit that is going on.
Where I am (Denmark) techno is a pure (upper) middle class white and hardly marginalized thing. Granted, that's based on anecdotal evidence and due old age I might be seriously out of touch, but I fail to see any political motive whatsoever within the 'scene' other than paying lip service when appropriate to the UR credo or something similar.
...well, you're not wrong - but we also just don't have that many truly marginalized groups in Denmark.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by td3l »

Do what you want obviously, but IMO Techno is a pretty shit medium for trying to convey a serious political and/or cultural message. It's mostly non-lyrical dance music. You can definitely inject some context into your tracks via the titles and artwork (see for instance Orphx - Pitch Black Mirror) but ultimately those are suggestive at best, and the listener will always make their own interpretations anyway as they exist outside of the actual music.

What would hopefully be accomplished by making 'political techno?' I love me some Rage Against the Machine as much as the next person, but listening to it is cathartic at best. Being involved in real political change is generally pretty fucking boring--lots of community meetings, involvement in local elections, canvassing, phone banking, talking to one's friends and neighbors, calling one's elected officials constantly, keeping up to speed on the news, etc. As someone trying to participate in these things as much as possible, I'd much rather my music be separate from all of that.

Also, I'm way too young to have direct knowledge of the subject, but it seems to me that the romanticization of early Techno and Rave culture is pretty overblown. Temporary Autonomous Zones will always primarily involve escapism and include lots of getting fucked up, and are not a substitute for being plugged into the real world the rest of the time. As a participant in burns and burner culture (i.e. Burning Man) I experience this frequently. YMMV of course.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by td3l »

It can definitely be done though:

youtu.be/tYh8YuXyjrg

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Lost to the Void wrote: Welcome to the fucking forum.
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Thanks. Glad to be here.
Amøbe wrote:Okay - I'm in the middle of doing academic papers in another field, so you won't get the big answer with loads of footnotes, but here's some of the classical (academic) ways to view techno as political:

- It's utopian in that it imagines new worlds (that synthesis often isn't used as mimesis)
- It's decentralized music - there's often no melody that is in power, instead it's collsions (or interactions) of juxtaposed sounds. The way the music is mostly heard - that's when it's being played out in a DJ-set - also makes it impossible to say, who made what, who are we to praise (...you could argue against it by saying that there are some totalitarian tendencies as of late by people all staring at the DJ and follow his guidelines) - Gilles Deleuze's few pieces on music are great for a better understanding of this.
- It's anti-establishment. It does not produce hits that fit into the way society structurally tells us to hear music (no radio play)
- The rave is a utopian place, where you don't abide the laws of society, but - ideally - get together in a safe anarchistic enviroment (anarchy is not equal just destroying things, but instead it means the refusal of tyranny... like laws, teachers, police, the government etc.)

So there's a few political aspects that has nothing to do with lyrics, but instead distribution and aesthetics.

...and then there's the afrofuturistic side! (I might get back on that one later)
Looking forward to reading more on this!
winston wrote:
don't want to derail the thread as it is very interesting, but do you have a few recommendations of clubs in Taipei? i'm going there for a few months in the Autumn
There are no few clubs. There is Korner. Smoke Machine's main base of operations (as an example), if you are looking for Techno. Other genres can also be found there, depending on the night. Let me know if you need more tips, glad to help.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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Amøbe wrote: Mark Fisher's - Capitalist Realism
Very good book, it almost sunk me actually.
He committed suicide. I kinda understand that when you look at his body of work, the man analysed our current condition so closely it killed him.
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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by chava »

I wrote a ridiculous long message, but the forum logged me out and I lost it all. Fuck it.

Try to be a bit quicker then:

Mark Fisher was great and I was a fan (especially the k-punk blog), but fundamentally I didn't agree with his conclusions. I also think his underlying thought had too much of nihilist strand and maybe that was he succumbed to in the end. And neither do I think there's a way out and those who think so delude themselves. What you need is being able to step out of conformity and face a chaotic social space now and then and our societies somehow has the degree of safety and freedom to allow that. Okay you might say it has become more professionalized and less anarchic since the 90es, but so has the post-industrial cities in the meantime.

The politization of techno was definitely there in the 90s (Force Inc, Spiral Tribe, Praxis) and I was fascinated by it as I never really bought into the PLUR crap and needed something 'more'. Ultimately though that was a dead end to me and now I really see music as something else entirely, although never totally disconnected from the 'political' as I don't think that is really possible for better or worse.

Amøbe: Yep, we share location, bookshelf, taste in documentary and in music obviously!

And your point about techno being synthetic instead of mimetic is very interesting and maybe the root of all this terrible futurist utopianism.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by chava »

Amøbe wrote:
...well, you're not wrong - but we also just don't have that many truly marginalized groups in Denmark.
Some would say the immigrants, some would say the old, some would say the sick or disabled, some would say the homeless, some would say the displaced right-voting working class, some would say the less intelligent. And if you score on all categories and you score on the LGBT+ register as well you are marginalized.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by disparate »

chava wrote:
Amøbe wrote:
...well, you're not wrong - but we also just don't have that many truly marginalized groups in Denmark.
Some would say the immigrants, some would say the old, some would say the sick or disabled, some would say the homeless, some would say the displaced right-voting working class, some would say the less intelligent. And if you score on all categories and you score on the LGBT+ register as well you are marginalized.
Obviously you guys who live there will know better than me, but friends I have there have led me to believe there's a lot of just-under-the-surface racism/cultural supremacy bubbling there, wonder if it'll really come to a head soon?

Interesting thread anyway, some nice viewpoints. I'm heartened that I've not really seen a single "keep the politics out of music!" type comment yet.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

Post by chava »

disparate wrote:
Obviously you guys who live there will know better than me, but friends I have there have led me to believe there's a lot of just-under-the-surface racism/cultural supremacy bubbling there, wonder if it'll really come to a head soon?
I'm pretty sure there are and Danes are in some ways quite xenophobic (but not racist) as it basically a huge monocultural village, but unlike Sweden and Germany the debate is pretty open and uncensored, so I doubt it will explode although who knows what will happen in the future.

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Re: Injecting politics into techno

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chava wrote:but unlike Sweden and Germany the debate is pretty open and uncensored, so I doubt it will explode although who knows what will happen in the future.
Let me just chime in and say that in nearly all news publications, papers, open forums and TV for the last 30-50 years (and possibly longer) there have always been debate, every day regarding foreigners and immigrants. It's a modern classic myth that it's not ok to discuss things like that in Sweden while everyone have always discussed it and very aggressively as well. All right wing and nationalists have been proved that this have been the case over and over, obviously they never listen. However there have been troublesome racist branding (using the term wrongly and many occasions) frequently by the modern regressive left and neo-liberals on very loose and faulty terms to many people. Now we can move on with the discussion!
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