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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Couldn't resist but read in full.

Very interesting.

Like what the article is saying about class destructuralization and I'm confident this was also one of the positive by-products of the whole rave movement in the late eighties/early nineties in the UK. Also confident this hasn't endured unfortunately.

It does though start to inspire questions around the influence of environmental circumstances.

The Tresor documentary is is a good indication of action as a result of opportunity following the reunification of Berlin and the associated authorities' lack of up-to-date legislation to address the appropriation of physical spaces for art/music operations.

Likewise, conditions seemed to be ideal at the point in time when Force Inc/Mille Plateaux was formed to inspire a broader ideological basis for operations in the wake of a rich legacy of politically motivated musical outfits from the previous decade and once more a reaction to the existing mainstream music situation.

Right, that's enough for now, starting to lose the focus of my own diatribe :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:25 pm 
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This is good, if not a little epilepsy inducing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmHr9dUhclo

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Vox Veteran wrote:
destructuralization :

perhaps...

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:50 pm 
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To me the 'SCENE' was the political scaffold and the music was the object being built inside it.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Sorry for the slow response - I've been trying to stay off the internet a bit the last few days!

chava wrote:
Amøbe wrote:
Afrofuturism..


Thanks for this summation as I was mostly familiar with the term through the 'Drexicyian mythology' popularized by Simon Reynolds (which took it from Eshun). Neo-mythologies are always interesting and in this case perhaps also useful for setting up a framework to analyze Detroit Techno. Still I remain a bit sceptical to the idea of over-emphazing the cultural impact of ethnicity as this very quickly degenerates into some sort of identity politics and group identity which is currently spreading like cancer all over. Exemplified in the abhorrent delegimitation of Mark Dery as you described.


Well I'm glad you liked it - it can easily become a rabbit hole to go down! And you're definitely right in that you should be careful not to over-emphasize. Especially should one stay careful not to essentialize people's output. With that said, then I do think it's a productive way to start talking at least about some of the political possibilities something like techno can contain. (I, at least, sometimes find it hard to talk about, when things aren't explicit about their policies)

chava wrote:
Paradoxically I would say a a lot of Detroit Techno back then (as in the 80-90s, sadly not much interesting comes from the D anymore) underplayed the group identity element and instead had quite an individual voice. I would claim that Contrary the european variant often turned out to be more like an effective assembly line production sublimating the individuality of the artist-producer to the then current genres du jour using endless internal genre-references (witness early jungle/d&b, hard-acid, trance, rave). Lots of cookie cutter stuff or 'mindless techno bollocks' as it was always described in the mocking UK anti-rave media at the time. But that was in a way liberating too and maybe the most revolutionary aspect of the rave movement; suppressing the individual to the machine (more than the crowd). But ultimately this in my view just ends in nihilism and self-destruct or even in some kin of totalitarian fascist pleasure prison - something that was heavily discussed and theorized in the german media at the time of Love Parade and all that. See Achim Szepanski (Head of Force inc/Mille Plateaux for this - he is some character and still very active in the academic world)

Oh, well got a bit on a tangent here. Interesting topic, though!

And currently listening to this record relevant for the topic - the first two PW records are rough diamonds in the Detroit techno canon: https://www.discogs.com/Psychic-Warfare-Blackazhell-EP/release/35054.


It's definitely important to problematize it if that was the end result (I wasn't around in the 90s), but the one thing I'm always nostalgic about - without ever being there - is that I find people often care too much about the DJ when I'm out dancing. I like this idea of the loss of individuality - which I very often don't find when I'm out :P

Anyways I just did some googling about Szepanski (I didn't know who he was - the same goes for Force Inc... which is kinda weird, because I was way into the Mille Plateaux releases before I really knew what techno was), and he's fucking interesting. It seems like he's also a bit critical of himself in hindsight!

And if we go back to the loss of individuality - the best and the worst thing about mille plateaux was how fucking massive it was (very rhizomatic) but it's also sometimes exhausting, and some of their releases don't really age that well (I still find transfomations and modulations 4 to be one of my favourite releases of all time!)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Pelecaras wrote:
To me the 'SCENE' was the political scaffold and the music was the object being built inside it.


I like this view :)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Vox Veteran wrote:
Couldn't resist but read in full.

Very interesting.

Like what the article is saying about class destructuralization and I'm confident this was also one of the positive by-products of the whole rave movement in the late eighties/early nineties in the UK. Also confident this hasn't endured unfortunately.

It does though start to inspire questions around the influence of environmental circumstances.

The Tresor documentary is is a good indication of action as a result of opportunity following the reunification of Berlin and the associated authorities' lack of up-to-date legislation to address the appropriation of physical spaces for art/music operations.

Likewise, conditions seemed to be ideal at the point in time when Force Inc/Mille Plateaux was formed to inspire a broader ideological basis for operations in the wake of a rich legacy of politically motivated musical outfits from the previous decade and once more a reaction to the existing mainstream music situation.

Right, that's enough for now, starting to lose the focus of my own diatribe :lol:


Your comment makes me a bit sad actually. Because when you say the time was ideal, I think you're right... and I just often sit with this annoying sense that it will be impossible to gather people to pursue some kind of hope these days... and on the other side I truly believe that's arts foremost task in society. To provide hope and to gather people.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Amøbe wrote:
Vox Veteran wrote:
Couldn't resist but read in full.

Very interesting.

Like what the article is saying about class destructuralization and I'm confident this was also one of the positive by-products of the whole rave movement in the late eighties/early nineties in the UK. Also confident this hasn't endured unfortunately.

It does though start to inspire questions around the influence of environmental circumstances.

The Tresor documentary is is a good indication of action as a result of opportunity following the reunification of Berlin and the associated authorities' lack of up-to-date legislation to address the appropriation of physical spaces for art/music operations.

Likewise, conditions seemed to be ideal at the point in time when Force Inc/Mille Plateaux was formed to inspire a broader ideological basis for operations in the wake of a rich legacy of politically motivated musical outfits from the previous decade and once more a reaction to the existing mainstream music situation.

Right, that's enough for now, starting to lose the focus of my own diatribe :lol:


Your comment makes me a bit sad actually. Because when you say the time was ideal, I think you're right... and I just often sit with this annoying sense that it will be impossible to gather people to pursue some kind of hope these days... and on the other side I truly believe that's arts foremost task in society. To provide hope and to gather people.


Ah, I wouldn't underestimate people's ongoing ability to react in this respect. Sure, there's currently plenty of divisive techniques and technology that powers that be employ to sublimate and segregate society into something more passive and controllable. That said, give people enough cause to react and it's my belief that they will, for constructive purposes or otherwise. There are certainly patterns of reaction through society's history that suggest this to be the case. In musical terms, punk's reaction to the predominantly sitting pretty progressive rock scene, first and foremost, a decade later, rave's reaction to Stock Aiken and Waterman's plastic pop among other criminal acts. Politically, sure in the UK there was Thatcher's supremacy as a clear target for action and reaction (and I feel only right to speak from personal experience) but these things are generational and I sincerely hope that the wrong doings of the current government will ultimately augment successive generations' combined efforts to correct the balance. Let's face it, things are about to get a whole lot worse for the UK (they're already bad enough) before they're going to get any better. It just remains to be seen how much worse they have to get.....

And finally, I totally agree regarding art's task. A time honoured history of music bringing people and nations together. Techno has done this globally, I believe and part of the reason I love it as much as I do. The international diversity on this forum alone is demonstration enough of the universal language we've all come to learn and communicate with.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Vox Veteran wrote:

Techno has done this globally, I believe and part of the reason I love it as much as I do. The international diversity on this forum alone is demonstration enough of the universal language we've all come to learn and communicate with.


Well yes-ish.
We have to place the internet within this framework.
It is the single most important leap in human communication since the telephone.
I owe a lot of my musical journey to the internet.
The countries I have played, the places I have played, the people I have met, the records I have pressed and sold, even my business... The internet pretty much facilitated all of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Amøbe wrote:

Your comment makes me a bit sad actually. Because when you say the time was ideal, I think you're right... and I just often sit with this annoying sense that it will be impossible to gather people to pursue some kind of hope these days... and on the other side I truly believe that's arts foremost task in society. To provide hope and to gather people.


Disagree. Art is the best man can do to encapsulate, define or transmit beauty, depending on your metaphysical stance on these things.

All the other stuff comes afterwards and is about social cohesion and in/out-group behaviour.

Techno or rave was not a conscious political movement. But depend on how you frame your analysis, you can view it as political. The naivité and universalism of 'the second summer of love' and again emphasized by the fall of the Wall and the subsequent talk of the end of history set cultural the background of the initial delusions of rave "PLURism". The opposite was the militancy of UR, the theoretizing of Force Inc and certain UK/french Free tekno-archo/TAZ types, although the latter had quite a bit in common with the PLUR-ravers (just emphasized anti-capitalist organization).

But (to me anyways) you need to analyze the music if you want to get the bottom of it. And (still, in my view) the primary difference to all earlier and then current youth/subcultural movements was that the music was instrumental or at least not song-based (I don't regard instrumental jazz as that cultural important, sorry). It was a huge change and definitely re-organized the way how to listen to music. This can not be underestimated and I think it was a kind of embodiment of the (at that time underdeveloped) networked society we now live in. For better or worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Amøbe wrote:

It's definitely important to problematize it if that was the end result (I wasn't around in the 90s), but the one thing I'm always nostalgic about - without ever being there - is that I find people often care too much about the DJ when I'm out dancing. I like this idea of the loss of individuality - which I very often don't find when I'm out :P


Obviously the mystery and chaotic part is gone forever. Everyone is over-fed with information which often has no relevance or render the experience impersonal. I really think there should be more high-profile clubs/raves with no line-ups.
But, although I am not currently synced up to these parts of the Danish techno scene, I would still guess that you could find this in trance or free-tekno raves somewhere out in the woods (but drugs also help to achieve this experience and to cope with the god-awful music).

Amøbe wrote:
And if we go back to the loss of individuality - the best and the worst thing about mille plateaux was how fucking massive it was (very rhizomatic) but it's also sometimes exhausting, and some of their releases don't really age that well (I still find transfomations and modulations 4 to be one of my favourite releases of all time!)


They were pretty active. But it was unusual for techno/house/dnb labels to have 2 releases a week in the 90s (or even until the mid 00s when the vinyl crash happened). The market was just that much bigger and way fewer labels to keep track on.

I can see what you mean by MP not aging well, but I regularly listens to those I got (and thats a lot!!) - and I still enjoy them. I mean Gas, SND, Cristian Vogel, Oval/Microstoria, Alec Empire etc - all of them are masterpieces. I hated their click-n-cuts phase though (apart from SND).


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:53 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Vox Veteran wrote:

Techno has done this globally, I believe and part of the reason I love it as much as I do. The international diversity on this forum alone is demonstration enough of the universal language we've all come to learn and communicate with.


Well yes-ish.
We have to place the internet within this framework.
It is the single most important leap in human communication since the telephone.
I owe a lot of my musical journey to the internet.
The countries I have played, the places I have played, the people I have met, the records I have pressed and sold, even my business... The internet pretty much facilitated all of it.


Fair point, V. I can get a little starry eyed reflecting back in the pre and embryo-internet era and it's communication medium significance :)


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:54 am 
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chava wrote:
Amøbe wrote:

It's definitely important to problematize it if that was the end result (I wasn't around in the 90s), but the one thing I'm always nostalgic about - without ever being there - is that I find people often care too much about the DJ when I'm out dancing. I like this idea of the loss of individuality - which I very often don't find when I'm out :P


Obviously the mystery and chaotic part is gone forever. Everyone is over-fed with information which often has no relevance or render the experience impersonal. I really think there should be more high-profile clubs/raves with no line-ups.
But, although I am not currently synced up to these parts of the Danish techno scene, I would still guess that you could find this in trance or free-tekno raves somewhere out in the woods (but drugs also help to achieve this experience and to cope with the god-awful music).

Amøbe wrote:
And if we go back to the loss of individuality - the best and the worst thing about mille plateaux was how fucking massive it was (very rhizomatic) but it's also sometimes exhausting, and some of their releases don't really age that well (I still find transfomations and modulations 4 to be one of my favourite releases of all time!)


They were pretty active. But it was unusual for techno/house/dnb labels to have 2 releases a week in the 90s (or even until the mid 00s when the vinyl crash happened). The market was just that much bigger and way fewer labels to keep track on.

I can see what you mean by MP not aging well, but I regularly listens to those I got (and thats a lot!!) - and I still enjoy them. I mean Gas, SND, Cristian Vogel, Oval/Microstoria, Alec Empire etc - all of them are masterpieces. I hated their click-n-cuts phase though (apart from SND).


And the Techno Animal and Porter Ricks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:52 pm 
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here in zürich the underground techno scene is political, because it takes place at squats and alternative places. There is a difference in attitude in the people who go to these kinda raves, then to the people who go to a clubnight in a big established club. But somehow a rave is a rave and a dancefloor is a dancefloor, if you know what i mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:06 pm 
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A topical one for today:

Theresa May highpasses her basslines at 120Hz, and doesn't bother to set a sensible level for the kickdrum before adding more channels. Her room has no acoustic treatment; she works late at night and always monitors really loud, regularly pissing off the neighbours because her studio adjoins their bedroom. She's been producing less than a year but charts on Beatport through buying multiple copies of her own music, which is self-mastered in her own shit room and written solely using pre-produced sample packs. She uses a bot to spam your inbox with promo links and rude, badly-spelled demands for you to send her your music for her DJ sets. Each track on her Soundcloud has exactly 10,000 likes but less than 50 plays. Her project name begins with an 'A' specifically so it appears at the top of alphabetical event lineups. When she plays out she insists on a hotel room even if it's a festival miles from anywhere and everyone else is camping on site. She gets utterly narted before her set, trainwrecks the previous DJ's last track and plays three tracks over her finish time. She DJs with MP3s.

Jeremy Corbyn has built a slow and steady career over the past decades and is highly-regarded for his impeccable production and innovative yet accessible music. He is utterly technically rigorous in the studio, and gain-stages everything appropriately from the get-go, yet he is so fluent with the tech that even the most complex sound design doesn't get in the way of his creativity. He can totally hear the difference between different modelled pre-amp plugins, and uses them to great advantage. He always carries a digital recorder to source his own sounds, and buys all his plugins and libraries (apart from a few big-hitters who he beta-tests for, who give him NFR, and the companies he's made libraries for). He always pays a professional to master his tracks but nonetheless the labels always prefer his masters. He is unfailingly polite and self-deprecating in PMs and always follows through professionally when he volunteers to promote the events he headlines, yet he's never guilty of spam. No matter how many plays his Soundcloud tracks have, they have between 50% and 75% as many likes.

Jeremy Corbyn DJs with paid-for WAVs.

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:08 am 
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[wesellboxes] wrote:
A topical one for today:

Theresa May highpasses her basslines at 120Hz, and doesn't bother to set a sensible level for the kickdrum before adding more channels. Her room has no acoustic treatment; she works late at night and always monitors really loud, regularly pissing off the neighbours because her studio adjoins their bedroom. She's been producing less than a year but charts on Beatport through buying multiple copies of her own music, which is self-mastered in her own shit room and written solely using pre-produced sample packs. She uses a bot to spam your inbox with promo links and rude, badly-spelled demands for you to send her your music for her DJ sets. Each track on her Soundcloud has exactly 10,000 likes but less than 50 plays. Her project name begins with an 'A' specifically so it appears at the top of alphabetical event lineups. When she plays out she insists on a hotel room even if it's a festival miles from anywhere and everyone else is camping on site. She gets utterly narted before her set, trainwrecks the previous DJ's last track and plays three tracks over her finish time. She DJs with MP3s.

Jeremy Corbyn has built a slow and steady career over the past decades and is highly-regarded for his impeccable production and innovative yet accessible music. He is utterly technically rigorous in the studio, and gain-stages everything appropriately from the get-go, yet he is so fluent with the tech that even the most complex sound design doesn't get in the way of his creativity. He can totally hear the difference between different modelled pre-amp plugins, and uses them to great advantage. He always carries a digital recorder to source his own sounds, and buys all his plugins and libraries (apart from a few big-hitters who he beta-tests for, who give him NFR, and the companies he's made libraries for). He always pays a professional to master his tracks but nonetheless the labels always prefer his masters. He is unfailingly polite and self-deprecating in PMs and always follows through professionally when he volunteers to promote the events he headlines, yet he's never guilty of spam. No matter how many plays his Soundcloud tracks have, they have between 50% and 75% as many likes.

Jeremy Corbyn DJs with paid-for WAVs.


Beautifully analogous :D


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:54 pm 
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[wesellboxes] wrote:
A topical one for today:

Theresa May highpasses her basslines at 120Hz, and doesn't bother to set a sensible level for the kickdrum before adding more channels. Her room has no acoustic treatment; she works late at night and always monitors really loud, regularly pissing off the neighbours because her studio adjoins their bedroom. She's been producing less than a year but charts on Beatport through buying multiple copies of her own music, which is self-mastered in her own shit room and written solely using pre-produced sample packs. She uses a bot to spam your inbox with promo links and rude, badly-spelled demands for you to send her your music for her DJ sets. Each track on her Soundcloud has exactly 10,000 likes but less than 50 plays. Her project name begins with an 'A' specifically so it appears at the top of alphabetical event lineups. When she plays out she insists on a hotel room even if it's a festival miles from anywhere and everyone else is camping on site. She gets utterly narted before her set, trainwrecks the previous DJ's last track and plays three tracks over her finish time. She DJs with MP3s.

Jeremy Corbyn has built a slow and steady career over the past decades and is highly-regarded for his impeccable production and innovative yet accessible music. He is utterly technically rigorous in the studio, and gain-stages everything appropriately from the get-go, yet he is so fluent with the tech that even the most complex sound design doesn't get in the way of his creativity. He can totally hear the difference between different modelled pre-amp plugins, and uses them to great advantage. He always carries a digital recorder to source his own sounds, and buys all his plugins and libraries (apart from a few big-hitters who he beta-tests for, who give him NFR, and the companies he's made libraries for). He always pays a professional to master his tracks but nonetheless the labels always prefer his masters. He is unfailingly polite and self-deprecating in PMs and always follows through professionally when he volunteers to promote the events he headlines, yet he's never guilty of spam. No matter how many plays his Soundcloud tracks have, they have between 50% and 75% as many likes.

Jeremy Corbyn DJs with paid-for WAVs.


too bad his crew are all various flavors marxist or commie cunts who hate you and hate britain.

they would shut down fabric because it is a corporate brand and would force you to open your house up so that people from other towns can come and have a shot on your decks, playing your records and not putting them back in the sleeves. if you object you get sent to a gulag somewhere outside middlesborough.
what a load of shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:58 pm 
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just discovered this one !
interesting topic, Jordan !

terly wrote:
Also, many spaces are initiating safety and anti-harassment measures informed by feminism.


fucking feminists.
I'm pretty sure the lesbians dropped Stace in here at some point,
(she doesn't even like high heels ffs, so it's like 500% sure she's a lesbian !!)
just to annoy us all with her unicorn shit.

it's like Jim Jefferies says :
why should it be the job of a man to get the woman's cunt wet ?
It's our job to get an erection, it's their job to get their cunt wet. 8-)

just testing da Stace-o-lator ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
You don't have to do it as literal political manifesto. All good music is political or personal. Just a bit of artistic literature to create some, dare I say poetry or prose, or a mantra, keeps it from becoming propaganda. Talking about life is political.
Do it.


^^This I very much believe in.

I use a lot of spoken word samples from films in my tracks,
and it's usually because I like the message in them.
(Ironically enough my most successful track has no real meaning in it at all, the words just sound good on the track)

I read a lot, and I'm constantly marking parts that contain some kind of message that I believe in,
or that I feel somehow touched my soul, as corny as this may sound.

I usually don't even like techno with lyrics myself, but that's mostly because they all take really stupid lyrics,
with no meaning whatsoever, so yeah, in the end, to me, that's just a major bummer.
Words gotta have meaning, or one should shut the fuck up.

Contrary to my posts here, my samples are usually pretty short. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Injecting politics into techno
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:33 pm 
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jordanneke wrote:
I'd actually really like to inject some sort of awareness about racism and the struggles that minorities still face . Many parties seem to be getting more homogenised, middle class and white, especially as people do festivals rather than clubs. It upsets me that despite having its roots in black culture (as with nearly all pop music), crowds have no idea that people still face issues because they're not white.


I'd take this even bigger and make it about people and their prejudices in general.
You know where I stand with the whole race-thing (I still meant what I said about your local grocery store, any time you want I'll gladly embarrass these retarded fuckheads by making some sort of hidden camera video).

I saw this documentary about motorcycle clubs a few days ago. Made like 20 years ago. Not talking about the real heavy ones, who live off drugs and guns trafficking. Just the normal clubs. One of the things that kept coming back was that when they were at one of their gatherings, they could just be themselves, and nobody would ever judge them. And tbh, that really did sound like a wonderful environment to be in.
Only problem is some of these clubs (if not most) are connected to the white supremacy shit, so yeah, there goes the "no mater who you are" idea straight down the drain... :?

But somehow I believe that the techno movement, or the whole rave thing, was at the start a completely open minded experience, where nobody cared from which part of society you came from, how rich or poor you were, or what kind of color your skin was.
I think that has seriously changed over the years, and yes, if you want to object to that, I completely understand you !


jordanneke wrote:
I get that music is escapism, and that techno and house is basically taking a vacation for 8hrs while you melt brain cells, but it doesn't mean that the odd track here and there can't have some sort of message.


yep, if it's the odd track here or there,
I don't think you risk of being called some kind of "preacher".

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"Much of the beauty that arises in art comes from the struggle an artist wages with his limited medium"
Henri Matisse



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