Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

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winston
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Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by winston »

read this in the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... gs-bikinis
thought it might be interesting to folk here.
Festivals go upmarket to avoid image of ‘beery lads singing with their shirts off’

Promoters of this year’s big music events are going invitation-only or avoiding mainstream acts to try to create a more exclusive vibe


Britain’s music festivals are looking to move upmarket this year, away from the beery, mass-singalong culture that has come to define summer as much as Wimbledon or a Test match at Lord’s.

With dance music more prominent on the airwaves now than at any time in the last decade, and the weak pound prompting young people to holiday in the UK rather than abroad, festival organisers have started to worry about their events being dominated by hordes of lads with their shirts off. A new age of elitism appears to have begun, with elaborate techniques being deployed to discourage certain kinds of punter.

Some festivals have decided to avoid well-known headliners altogether, in a bid to deter the shallower type of festivalgoer who turns up only to see the big names. Other organisers are keeping numbers to a minimum and tickets scarce. Freerotation, an “electronic music party” held near Hay-on-Wye, Wales, in July, is members-only: only those who know someone who has already been can get tickets.

“Exclusivity does help promote a kind of unity – everyone there is into the same thing and there is less opportunity for a clash of cultures,” said Adam Saville, deputy editor of DJ Mag. Other festivals, such as September’s Field Maneuvers, have strong underground lineups, and numbers are deliberately kept low in a bid to create a house-party atmosphere.

The Sub Club XXX, a new festival held in Glasgow in August, is ensuring an intimate and knowledgeable crowd by splitting the festival into two days, aimed at different types of audience. The Saturday event, featuring highbrow artists such as Dixon and Peggy Gou, will be followed by more mainstream acts such as Maceo Plex on the Sunday. “The audience will be divided along these music policy lines,” said the organisers, who claim to be interested in appealing only to a certain crowd and have fastidiously avoided promotional videos featuring girls in bikinis and popular house music.

Fabric nightclub resident DJ Craig Richards curates Houghton Festival, in the grounds of a country house in Norfolk. He told the Observer: “I’m sick of expensive DJs and people who are only there to see half the lineup. It’s nonsense. This is one of the big problems with festivals today. It’s much more important to me that we present new artists and new experiences.”

Saville agrees. “If you are really into music, you don’t necessarily want the crowd to be people in vests and caps who are beefed up and there for the popular name on the scene, but don’t know any of the others. It creates a weird music vibe if people don’t get it. When you have a clash of cultures, it disconnects the harmony; you want everyone there to be on the same page.”

A DJ who did not wish to be named agrees that it is dispiriting to play for people who are only there for the headline act. “It’s completely different to any normal gig that you do. There’s a small proportion of people in the crowd who know anything about your music, and it means you have to hold them there by being more direct and by taking any subtlety out of what you do. People can leave at any moment, especially when there are multiple arenas. If you bore them for a second, they move on.”

Going upmarket may also be one way to ensure longevity. Although Glastonbury manages to appeal to everyone from rugger buggers to hippies, the festival industry generally is in a somewhat precarious state. The 15-year-old Secret Garden Party will call it a day after its July event in Cambridgeshire, and many others are not even getting off the ground. “Festivals are making a concerted effort to be more upmarket and appeal to a certain crowd, partly to make sure they survive,” said Saville. “The festivals that evolve and keep the attendees interested are always the ones that people talk about. Choosing underground artists and developing your niche is part of that.”

Bill Brewster, co-author of Last Night A DJ Saved My Life, a history of disc jockeys, thinks that the increase in elite festivals is not unsurprising but goes against the spirit of inclusiveness of dance music. “We live in a society that’s divided and that is inevitably going to have parallels in other layers of culture and music,” he said. “Festivals and weddings used to be one of the few places where different generations and different types of people came together.

“I don’t think it’s like that any more and it’s a shame really. You go somewhere now and it’s specifically aimed at you and your type of mates and there are other places aimed at other groups in society. You don’t really have that cross-generational thing.”

Saville agrees. “There’s a lot of snobbery around clubland and commercialisation of house music but there should be a degree of open-mindedness in clubbing,” he said. “Dance music was always hinged on everyone being allowed to feel comfortable in their own skin, whatever gender or class they were.”

if one were cynical, it could be seen as creating a safe-space for the snooty beat-elite, who are above having to be in the same field as blue-collar ravers. i'm not cynical though, but it does seem at odds to the idea that you put on an event for all those that are interested in it, instead of some cliquey incestuous shindig where you can pass round the poppers in peace.

would you consider Dixon more highbrow than Maceo Plex? if highbrow means boring, then i would, but can deep house be highbrow?

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by jordanneke »

It's just a way of keeping Tristan and Pippa away from Leah, Tyrone and Gazza.

No doubt the crowds will be exclusively straight, white and middle-class.

Exactly the people that house music and techno was invented by and for.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by terly »

Dixon and maceo plex have very similar appeal, I would say. You can definitely alter the crowd and vibe of your party with the lineup (not perfectly though, as you'd be surprised who turns up for underground shows), but Dixon and maceo plex are hardly examples of either extreme - they are both middle ground house artists. Maybe my familiarity isn't nuanced enough but if you really wanted to appeal to both ends of the spectrum you'd book Ramzi one night and Cake Karaoke the next.

I think what the article is missing is that the size of crowds is going to be the primary factor in how many douchebags there are. Bros love big parties, not small ones as much.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by Monreal »

Both Maceo and Dixon are entry-level techno DJs whose only appeal to bodybuilding muscle bros and instagram basic bitches.

Let Maceo stay in Ibiza in whole summer and Dixon travel around to Europe for Saturday night gigs with any Bumload, . artists accompanying him.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by disparate »

jordanneke wrote:It's just a way of keeping Tristan and Pippa away from Leah, Tyrone and Gazza.

No doubt the crowds will be exclusively straight, white and middle-class.

Exactly the people that house music and techno was invented by and for.
:lol: pretty much...
terly wrote:Dixon and maceo plex have very similar appeal, I would say. You can definitely alter the crowd and vibe of your party with the lineup (not perfectly though, as you'd be surprised who turns up for underground shows), but Dixon and maceo plex are hardly examples of either extreme - they are both middle ground house artists. Maybe my familiarity isn't nuanced enough but if you really wanted to appeal to both ends of the spectrum you'd book Ramzi one night and Cake Karaoke the next.
Also agreed.
winston wrote:
The Sub Club XXX, a new festival held in Glasgow in August, is ensuring an intimate and knowledgeable crowd by splitting the festival into two days, aimed at different types of audience.
Well that's nice of Sub Club, if their past performance is anything to go by then if any of the aggro or gropey men etc. that can be hard to completely avoid at even "underground" festivals show up, the club's management, their fanboys and certain oh-so-leftwing/socially conscious residents of theirs will go completely out of their way to ridicule, gaslight and exclude anyone who brings it up :)

I suppose on the other side of partying with dudebros/"chavs" that they're all trying to avoid, there's the Glastonbury vibe of posh girls in flower crowns and Tories, can't say that's any more appealing anyway...

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by jordanneke »

When I was clubbing in the 90's in Birmingham, the dress codes for clubs were VERY strict. It was a simple way of keeping the 'Townie, football hooligan, ralph lauren wearing' element away. These guys would never want to dress up like a 'gay-boy', so the clubs managed to keep all the douche-bags out, and the girls that accompanied them.

Or you played Techno, which was still quite underground, in which case, you didn't need a dress code.

Now, dress codes don't really exist, and techno is popular, hence all the trouble-makers finding their way into 'decent/ underground' clubs, and by extension, all the festivals.

The only places I've been to (recently) which managed to get a decent line-up, AND keep the bad element out had ultra restrictive entry, and operated a homo/straight policy. Cafe Capital in Antwerp and dare I say it... Berghain....

Problem is how can you have a door policy at a festival, which allows all people in regardless of class/ race, as long as you're not a dick? Especially when you have to sell 5000 tickets? I think it's an impossibility.

I went to a festival last year outside london in a nice middle-class area. It was terrible, the crowd was all homogenous, all the same, no variation.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by Kromasome »

jordanneke wrote:
I went to a festival last year outside london in a nice middle-class area. It was terrible, the crowd was all homogenous, all the same, no variation.
Hey - don't start using big words around here! But thanks for dumbing it down for us dummies twice afterwards. :lol:

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by jordanneke »

Kromasome wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I went to a festival last year outside london in a nice middle-class area. It was terrible, the crowd was all homogenous, all the same, no variation.
Hey - don't start using big words around here! But thanks for dumbing it down for us dummies twice afterwards. :lol:

People say i'm condescending: THAT MEANS I TALK DOWN TO PEOPLE.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by Kromasome »

jordanneke wrote:
Kromasome wrote:
jordanneke wrote:
I went to a festival last year outside london in a nice middle-class area. It was terrible, the crowd was all homogenous, all the same, no variation.
Hey - don't start using big words around here! But thanks for dumbing it down for us dummies twice afterwards. :lol:

People say i'm condescending: THAT MEANS I TALK DOWN TO PEOPLE.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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winston
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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by winston »

disparate wrote:
Well that's nice of Sub Club, if their past performance is anything to go by then if any of the aggro or gropey men etc. that can be hard to completely avoid at even "underground" festivals show up, the club's management, their fanboys and certain oh-so-leftwing/socially conscious residents of theirs will go completely out of their way to ridicule, gaslight and exclude anyone who brings it up :)
whats that story about?
and is it the 2 most well known 50 year old residents?

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by disparate »

There was a bit of a shitstorm, the best part of a year ago if I remember correctly. Basically:

1. The club tweeted "Sub Club: Safe Space Since '87!" in what was pretty much everyone agreed was a fairly ill-advised attempt to capitalise on the recent increase in consideration/discussion of representation, safety, etc. in the underground club scene, which they clearly had quite a poor understanding of the issues and terminology regarding (as I'm sure a few on this forum do too judging by a thread a couple of months back...)

2. Some people, including former club employees and people who'd been attending for years, refuted that in fact them and/or friends of theirs have at times experienced groping/assault, aggro, etc. in the venue and haven't felt that the club takes this seriously or that they were comfortable to bring it up with the club at the time. I'm not saying an exceptional amount for a nightclub, but certainly that it happens.
Issues were also brought up such as the fact that the club continues to give space to promoters and DJs known for very much less than perfect views on these issues (including one promoter crew who'd done a halloween night in another venue and awarded the winning prize to a guy in blackface; and a member of staff discouraging a more forward-thinking promoter from advertising their night as one striving for better representation and safety, as they felt this might imply the club is lacking in this front normally). Obviously all of this isn't quite in line with the ethos of safer spaces...
On the written side this criticism was in the form a lot of individual tweets/posts/etc and a post on a locally-based blog.

3. This was met with (in addition to the usual "nah this shit doesn't happen in our great non-mainstream scene where everyone's just in it for the music" denial from random bros and people involved, even to the extent of flat-out calling people who'd personally experienced it liars), responses from the club berating people for criticising them on social media, and instead inviting them to discuss their concerns in private meetings. At least one person I know of actually went to such a meeting and was outnumbered and belittled by management & associated crew, and patronised for being younger/newer to the scene than them.

4. The club put up a post on their facebook, which was subsequently deleted after another shitstorm erupted in the comments, where they encouraged readers/punters to rise above "xenophobic and divisive rhetoric" and "deliberate and poisonous campaigns of misinformation", the former being written in the same sentence as a condemnation of the at-the-time recent Pulse and Jo Cox shootings and clearly comparing those bringing up imperfect behaviour in the club to the perpetrators of these acts. Amongst plenty other shit takes in the comments thread, a member of one of the city's well-known DJ duos (who used to do Sunday nights, don't think it's the duo you're thinking of?) weighed in, saying the way the club has been criticised is "scarily similar" to the way far right groups conduct themselves.

Afaik they have quietly been making attempts to get more educated on such issues, whether that's an increase in the diversity of bookings there or additional staff training... which is laudable but not really enough without anything like a proper apology, and members of staff who were instrumental in the ganging up on and dismissing of people speaking out still being employed there, etc.

So yeah, hence my slight apprehension about them coming up and talking about attracting better crowds through their booking policies :)

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by xonetacular »

Instagram started advertising this Fyre Festival thing to me that's coming up. Looked it up and it's some thing in the bahamas with minimum "package" prices at over $4,000 per person with packages up to $50,000 per person (4 people required so 200k). Or a mere $2,500 if you want to park your own yacht.

http://www.fyrefestival.com/packages

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by intrusav »

That's hilarious...
$12.5k a head and a footnote of "prices will increase soon"

Fuck right off!

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by intrusav »

And they've spelt Lee Burridge's name wrong! Clowns...

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by jordanneke »

Could you imagine the utter chinless, inbred millionaire shitcunts that would be there?

We should send Steve to play there :D

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by xonetacular »

sounds like a lovely crowd, and there's two weekends of it so you could go twice!

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by Lost to the Void »

jordanneke wrote:Could you imagine the utter chinless, inbred millionaire shitcunts that would be there?

We should send Steve to play there :D
Oh I would fucking love it for all 15 minutes before I was arrested and removed from the place.
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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by The_G »

Monreal wrote:Both Maceo and Dixon are entry-level techno DJs whose only appeal to bodybuilding muscle bros and instagram basic bitches.

Let Maceo stay in Ibiza in whole summer and Dixon travel around to Europe for Saturday night gigs with any Bumload, . artists accompanying him.
I dunno man. Maceo Plex has done some lovely tunes, like this:

youtu.be/cXBIZOiSaxA

No clue what he's like as a DJ. Probably boring like almost everyone else.

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by terly »

Maceo plex is a decent DJ. I would go see him for sure if he played in my city. I have pretty low standards though ;)

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Re: Upmarket dance festivals- Kick out the Chavs! article

Post by intrusav »

You're missing the point ..


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