Hans Zimmer Masterclass

[TimBuys]

Hey guys, been off the forum for a bit since I have been trying to get my bum ass a job. Lately I have been listening to a lot of movie soundtracks and I defenitely have a lot of interest in making music for movies even though it seems like a very far-reaching goal. One of the best in that field is ofcourse Hans Zimmer and he happens to have a Masterclass. I was wondering if anyone has seen his Masterclass, and if yes, is it worth the 90 bucks? Not sure how in depth these Masterclasses are.

youtu.be/yCX1Ze3OcKo

[Stace]

I think it looks pretty good! I was waiting to see if anyone I knew had done it.

If there is some intro vids you could give them a go and see if it is worth your investment. They also do a money back thing as well if you are not happy. I see no reason to not go for it

[Aurongroove]

Sorry if this sounds dismissive, It's intended as a reality check and something I wish someone told me before I wasted 6 years in University and approximately 10 years besides.

if you're over the age of 17 and you don't already own a studio capable of rendering professional quality finished works for TV and film, or your father isn't literally Hans Zimmer himself. Then there is no chance at all of you getting a job in this field. Even if you did, it would take at least 10 or 12 years, but it's much more likely to never ever happen.

you could hobble on for 12 years doing freelance stuff, underground stuff for free while you build a port folio (in which case you'll need a 'real job' to support yourself in the meantime), but once that port folio is built, you're submitting your "insert your age plus 12 years" CVs against the CVs of several hundred fresh graduates with MA's in Music for TV & film, all-but-one of whom is ALSO doomed to never ever see employment in this field AND at least 20~50 people WITH experience in the field, all but one of whom will be successful in their application.
But is there hope? what about independents? could you 'google' low budget films being made and send them a "Hi, can I make music for your film, I SWARE I'm good". But it's the same thing; hundreds of applicants. The amount of people looking for inroads into music for "X media" vs the amount of people needed is about 5000/1 and some of those 5000 in 1 are already there with websites, actually great professional sounding port folios, been doing free lance for 7~8 years poured the second mortgage into it.

I have a friend who studied in this field, he has an MA in Composition and he found it easier to getting a full time job teaching English to school children in Japan, then he did even finding a studio that he could sweep the floor and bring coffee.


Those Master classes are for hobbiests, not for people looking for a career change. If even 1% of people that took these masterclasses got a job in the field, there wouldn't be enough movies in the history off all the films ever made, to keep them in work.

The only way to cut through now a days is creativity and "making your own USP".
The traditional avenues for stuff like this is like a hopeless, life long, traffic jam.


If you're still determined after read that, then my best advice is "do a Daft Punk".
Become a DJ producer, or a gigging song writer, or any kind of unusual or unique musician with a story and a following, then use that identity and following to "cut in";.
"Hello Disney I hear you're doing a tron reboot, we'll we're in a world famous retro sounding techno band and the tron aesthetic has heavily influenced our look and sound for the past 20 years".

That's an extreme example. but the point is, you need to put yourself in a position to be appealing and suitable, without appearing to care too much about it.
And the only way to do that is to have a suitable and independently generated career that "just so happens" to suit an upcoming Film/Game/TV Show/Podcast.
Miserable songwriter? they might wanna feature your music in a gritty urban drama, etc., but not if you're just a nobody who has a portfolio, only if you're really a real musician who really does this and you're already supporting yourself with it.

I hope that helps...

[Stace]

I don't agree Aurongroove.

One of my clients used to work for a radio station group I look after. He was doing things like the soundbites, jingles, filler music, any aspect of sound design that the group needed. Not only did he get paid a basic wage, he was also able to make PRS claims on everything that he made.

In the last 2 months he has actually left that job to freelance full time. Before that he was getting himself on huge BBC productions and working on films. He definitely is not Hans Zimmer's son. I think you are overthinking how the visual industry works in terms of outsourcing things like editing, colour-grading and sound. Even the BBC employ people who are freelance to work on really big productions - trust me, I know this first hand from the work my partner has done.

They way I see it is, it is about getting to work with a producer, normally the first time is for free (or the second and third) eventually, you end up in the world of paid work. It is VERY much a word of mount industry and I can certainly say, not impossible to get into.

[TimBuys]

For me the way I see it producing music is something I will keep doing for a very long time to come. I think following some movie production classes can help produce techno aswell, so I defenitely don't think it would be a waste of time. I can see your point though on having no illussions how hard it would be to achieve such a thing.

[Stace]

[Aurongroove]

I don't agree Aurongroove.

One of my clients used to work for a radio station group I look after. He was doing things like the soundbites, jingles, filler music, any aspect of sound design that the group needed. Not only did he get paid a basic wage, he was also able to make PRS claims on everything that he made.

In the last 2 months he has actually left that job to freelance full time. Before that he was getting himself on huge BBC productions and working on films. He definitely is not Hans Zimmer's son.

If you think that's disagreeing with me, then you didn't understand my point.

[Stace]

Maybe I didn't. I did type that reply while I was on a conference call

Would you care to elaborate a little more to help me better understand?

[Aurongroove]

Sure thing.

I'm claiming that in general, Music for TV/Film/Media is a terrible choice for starting a new career becasue the field is completely saturated with people trying to get their foot in the door. People such as academically qualified go-getters, genuinely competent amateurs, established freelancers, and just people who like the idea and want to give it a go.
The fact that you know someone who recently went freelance doesn't really effect anything, other then proving that "at least some people already work in the field" which is already the consensus.
I know an animator who works for Disney and Nickelodeon (currently) and he doesn't have a clue how someone starting off now a days would be able to get a job starting off, and that's considering that films in general need 500~1000 animators and only one composer, and that there are 10 times as many people applying to be composers as there are animators.


My stark advice, addressed to the OP, was written out of experience, compassion and concern, and my advice remains that the best way to get into music and media is to accidentally do it; be a musician yes, but don't endeavor to "make music for x media" becasue you're starting down a road that is beaten to dust.

There are entire industries built up around "hobbiest pursuits where the pursuer doesn't realize they're perusing a hobby rather then a career", and as a musician it can be very easy to accidentally find out you were "hobby-zoned" by your career choice years ago; That you've actually got no experience using the "serious tools", the "industry standards" the " relevant work experience, and you never will, becasue you need work experience to get work experience", and that your qualifications you have were not focused enough, etc, etc.

The best way to get any job as desirable and as over saturated with applicants as music for films, is to "side step or stoop" into it; Do the thing you are the-best-at-that-you-love-doing and build your experience.
Then when you're established, you have an identity or a unique selling point; when you're the "I was talking to a girl who is quite a well know DJ and she expressed interest in doing something in our film" or " that guy is a blogger and he's got a big following" or whatever, then you're not just a CV to glance at before lazily throwing in the bin.

Then, and only then, will you go from being a 5000/1 (a logically ridiculous set of odds to bank earning a living out of) To something more realistic PLUS financial independence while you wait for that first few "yes" to finally trickle your way.

[terryfalafel]

Interesting reading. Thanks for the insight, and sorry if you learned all this the hard way

I've posted a similar thing on here when someone asked about the value of Music Technology degrees. I did one, got a 1st and now work in broadcast. The degree was useful for personal development and it helped me get a technical job, but it would have been an expensive way to waste three years if I'd have gone to be a runner in a big studio cos I'd have started at the bottom, just like the 16 year olds who didn't spend £15k and three years of their life before getting started.

[Hades]

first thing I'd like to say to OP :

when I see this short clip,
I can tell he's gonna tell you all kinds of stuff you can probably never use practically speaking.
Just look at the guy : he's surrounded by tons of professional gear,
and he is a HIGLY classically trained musician, who not only knows how to compose music for each instrument of an orchestra,
but also plays keys with the greatest of ease, and probably a few other instruments as well.

Just yesterday someone pointed out a piece of music to me that sounded very much like it was composed for films.
First thing I said was "those strings are very clearly outdated. The attack of every note sounds exactly the same, which is not what you'd have if you would have used real strings or (which happens of course far more) if the guy used a proper sample pack/rompler and programmed his notes better"
So yeah, the piece pretty much sucked for me just because of that.
I'd love to make some more ambient, but I'm saving up for a new strings sample pack. I'm looking at approx. 500 euro's, but I'll happily pay that because I know I'll be able to play them technically. I won't be clicking in notes trying to breathe life into my piece.
If I would be, I wouldn't bother and just be satisfied with the best current date rompler preset I could find.

Do you play keys (or any other instrument that could be used as some form of controller) ?
Do you know harmony ?
Do you have pretty much non-stop inspiration and do you have new melodies popping inside your head all the time,
AND are you able to write them down or record them fast enough before they disappear ?
If not, I doubt you'll have any decent chance.

This clip is just gonna be one big long motivational "you can do it" kind of thing, but in the end it won't help you much.
It would help you far more to learn how to play keys, or learn your harmony, or...
I have no idea if you know those or not, but if you don't, that's what I would spend my money on first.

[TimBuys]

Always a pleasure to read your detailed replies Hades! I have been reading up on music theory lately, I probably started really late as I am 27 years old now. My father however is classically trained and is VERY skilled on the piano, so mabye some of that talent transferred on to me . Same thing with producing techno I have no expectations on what I can accomplish but I just want to explore my creativity further. I understand I don't have the equipment nor the skill/experience but at the very least I can get a little closer to find out how some pieces of music I love were made. I will just start slow and learn how to write simple melodies and go from there. I have a whole lifetime ahead of me and I don't see myself quitting producing music anytime soon.

These were some of the pieces I was listening to recently that really got me motivated to get more into it (alltough I have had the idea for a very long time).

youtu.be/2k8WS8a7S9o
youtu.be/vkW7eW583DQ
youtu.be/GWm8-jlddaw

[Hades]

youtu.be/2k8WS8a7S9o
youtu.be/vkW7eW583DQ
youtu.be/GWm8-jlddaw

Now that I have some more time for a more proper reply :
I have to say, you are giving TOTALLY different examples of soundtracks here.
It's funny, but before checking out the production years of those soundtracks just now, I made a wild guess,
and it turns out I wasn't that far off...
(my guess was late 90's, something around 87, and 2006)

The biggest difference (apart from their age) is the fact that the first 2 are just soundtracks that were most likely done by some guy with a few synths.
You can clearly hear the strings aren't real strings, and the horn sounds pretty fake as well.
The flute in that first video : you can hear every note sounds the same except when somebody manually entered the vibrato. (probably by turning the mod wheel)
It's fake as hell, because the vibrato is the only place where there is a human "aspect" in the playing.
(And the vibrato effect sounds exactly the same all the time !!)
If that was a human flute player, you would hear the little differences everywhere.
The vibrato would be on almost every note, even if just in the tiniest amount.

At the time the 1st soundtrack was made, most people used romplers for those sounds.
Computers were being used, but they certainly didn't have the power (and memory) they had today.
So my guess is most of that soundtrack (if not all) was done with romplers.
At the time the 2nd one was made (the 2nd video is a decade older than the 1st), big sample libraries were simply non-existent.
It was all late 80's cheesy synths like the D50, which sounded gorgeous at the time, but sound completely outdated nowadays.

Now the strong part of the first 2 soundtracks is the harmonic and melodic content.
So if you are interested in making something like that,
the good news is : you can do that stuff perfectly by yourself on your computer nowadays,
(and way better if you know how to)
but you have to ask yourself : can I come up with so many melodies for so many different instruments ?
Am I strong in melodic content at all ?
And am I capable of recording all my musical idea's ?

And even if the answer is yes : don't ever try to make soundtracks like those above with the tools we got today.
I doubt people will accept that stuff any more nowadays.
The 2nd video you posted is just stuffed with 80's cheese synths.
Even if someone would like that certain retro effect of these sounds, they'd still expect more modulation and variation on all of their sounds.
People nowadays use bit crusher (to give just one example) to get a more "old school" effect, but they still don't go back to the more "static" sounds,
they still use the modern day extra's and use old-school FX if they want a more old-school flavor.

Pfff, that 2nd video, apart from having a hard time listening to it, it sounds really, really outdated...
I doubt I could ever listen to that except if somehow that film had some nostalgic meaning to me.
But yeah, it's a Jean-Claude Van Damme film...
The guy was a walking billboard for Colombia's biggest export product for years, and it sure as fuck wasn't his eloquence that could have saved him...
Only film I ever want to see with that guy is the JCVD one, where he finally admits (or so I've been told) to being a spitting image of what he once was, so to say.

[Hades]

will get back to the last video later, but my youngest (5) needs me to help her make a bunny out of "plastecine" (not sure what the English word for it is)
one simply can't refuse to that.
The moment I refuse to her lovely charm, some day I'll wake up 10 years later to find her totally ignoring me,
and I'll go "fuck where did all that time just go to ???"

[intrusav]

There's a saying "If it's for you, it won't pass you by".
I think if you are determined to do something, you will get there if you're good enough.
Look at David Holmes for example ..

[TimBuys]

It's not that weird if you think about, all these soundtracks are from my childhood so I have a special connection with the sounds. Lot's of the more recent big budget hollywood soundtracks just sound really simular and uninspired to me (but mabye that's just me!). I can at least try to write good harmonic and melodic content step by step. It's never a waste of time to spend time on your hobby. Some techno producers that I like (which will probably not be considered techno by some here) have simple melodies aswell.

Yeah that second soundtrack I posted is defenitely cheesy but it gives me such a soothing effect, also, you know the Dutch love cheese lol.

[Hades]

It's not that weird if you think about, all these soundtracks are from my childhood so I have a special connection with the sounds. Lot's of the more recent big budget hollywood soundtracks just sound really simular and uninspired to me (but mabye that's just me!). I can at least try to write good harmonic and melodic content step by step. It's never a waste of time to spend time on your hobby. Some techno producers that I like (which will probably not be considered techno by some here) have simple melodies aswell.

Yeah that second soundtrack I posted is defenitely cheesy but it gives me such a soothing effect, also, you know the Dutch love cheese lol.

no excuse, kaaskop !
it means you need to upgrade your film knowledge.
(there's a wonderful film topic somewhere in here btw)

Nah man, I totally understand the nostalgia part.
I don't have cable tv (21 years and counting !) but I used to watch about 20 films per month for 12+ years, and I still have an extensive DVD collection.
Some films are indeed just pure nostalgia for me.
I hate musicals for example, really really hate them.
But there are 2 exceptions, and one of them is "The Sound Of Music".
Many people hate that film, and I can totally understand why.
But when I grew up, VCR's were just slowly being introduced into every household, so it was very common for people to have like only 5 tapes, and rerecord over them constantly (pretty much like people do now with their HD recorderds, except they have a lot more space)
One of the video's we "kept" was "The Sound Of Music".
I had totally forgotten about this until my sister once told me "don't you remember we used to watch that film pretty much every weekend ?"
So I went and bought the damn thing and fuck me, I still knew the whole film inside out.
The nostalgia is even so extreme that I start crying at certain moments, and I'm not the type to cry easily. (and it's not even a sad film ffs)
I guess it's some sort of return to better days, I have no idea.
But I am convinced watching "The Sound Of Music" so many times really helped me shape my sense of melody.
The tracks in there are extremely well composed, whether you like them or not is of course another thing all together.

I try to have my kids watch only 1 DVD each day, but in the weekends, they know they can always ask me "can we watch "The Sound of Music" dad ?"
And I'll just give in. Always.

pretty fucking techno huh ??

now let me think of some of my favorite soundtrack pieces...

[Hades]

I've heard there's even TSOM fans that walk around Salzburg and start to sing the songs at the places they shot the film.
The people who live there really hate them with a passion.

Wouldn't ever be capable of doing that though.
there are limits.

[Hades]

The only radio I listen to is a classical radio station, I simply can't stand normal radio stations.
They played this one a few days ago, and though I've watched that film tons of times when I was young (another one we kept on VCR),
I was amazed at how good this piece really was. Most people will only remember the "march" part, but you have to listen to the instrumentation of the whole piece.
That middle part, how he takes it down and goes from a march full of energy to a highly emotional string piece,
and then brings back in the energy, first the same string part but more energetic, with the horns on the background,
and then back the into the march part, with the fagots or clarinets or something (not entirely sure which ones),
and then back the horns with the march theme...
listen to the answer response thing in that theme, with the orchestral hits as extra accents.

There are a lot of scores from John Williams that I don't like at all (the Jurassic Park one, ugh), but he really nailed it with this one.

youtu.be/Vjfi_tu6T_g

[Hades]

absolutely one of my favorites.
Extremely emotional soundtrack.
Of course the film is full of horrible cliché's, but we're talking about soundtracks now...
I bought this on one CD when I was making a big road trip through the US ages ago,
and I can guarantee you this music is a perfect match for some of the wide landscapes you drive through.

youtu.be/y6owUK53WPM