any tips on mixing "broken beat" non 4x4 techno

[simon_marklar]

I dont have the biggest selection of broken beat and what i do have is pretty eclectic - i buy what i like, not what fits in with what i have, so perhaps that's my downfall here, perhaps all it is is that I need a bigger selection to choose from...

that being said, can anyone offer some tips or suggestions for a bedroom dj trying to figure out this style? anyone care to share their 'aha!' moments and what led them to it ???

[ozias_leduc]

i don't really understand the question

broken beat techno is (usually) still 4/4 .. just mix it like anything else

otherwise please elaborate!

[Alume]

True that. Just get the bpm right and try to fit them together.

[Binary Society]

Yes broken beats are usually 4/4. One thing that can help is understanding the rythm's starting point, if it's not obvious to you, try to listen to the records while counting a regular 1 2 3 4...

[oddmyth]

The question is valid, it's not always apparent and it doesn't always sound good to mash a couple of broken beat tracks together.

Definitely understanding where the beat starts is going to really help, but additionally sometimes even when you get it right, the syncopation or the backbeat of one track doesn't make sense against the other.

For instance having a normal back beat on the 2 and the 4 against a backbeat on the 3 alone sounds very awkward.

Then there's the beat itself and all the different riddims those take on, it's more like mixing reggae than it is like mixing techno honestly.

My advice is to try and find broken beat tracks that have similar rhythms to mix together and if you have a particular broken beat rhythm that you are trying to mix into, experiment with a number of different tracks that you think may work. Sometimes the hardest tracks to mix are the most rewarding .

Lastly, I would say in many cases, especially when the track has a more freestyle feel to it, a quicker mix will yield better results. Either that or a more chop and slice style of mixing.

[Ttinga]

This is my favorite style of techno but I find it's pretty hard to mix on the fly. So I spend a lot of time testing tracks to see what will mix together and to sync up the transitions with natural breakdowns/builds in the tracks. If you find the right tracks you may be able to do a gradual techno style transition but a lot of times a quicker transition is in order. For example here is a mix I did recently of all broken beat stuff:

[Binary Society]

Couple more tips:

Beatmatching broken beats with straight 4 to the floor can help understanding the rythm, as it kinda counts 1 2 3 4 for you.

This one is a bit DJ 101 but I know a lot of people who only play 4 to the floor and start discover and using it only when they try to mix less straight stuff: you can often find a sound that happens at regular intervales in the beats (typically a snare), and use that to beatmatch if you understand where there place is in the sequence.

[Planar]

Good advice so far. I'd add that setting a loop can help with a breaky type of track if you're I into smooth blends. Find a good loop at the start and one at the end, maybe even multiple ones with different elements. Try not to make them too short. Make sure each loop is at the start of a musical phrase so when you drop out of it you're still in time. Beatmatch away, but don't over-do it

[Lost to the Void]

The best stuff is when you mix different types of broken beats together, you end up with wonderful syncopation, really powerful, and not just boom tish. I love it.
My advice is don`t put together broken beat stuff with similar broken beats, it kinda defeats the point.
You have to think like a drummer, study a bit of syncopation maybe, because it becomes most interesting when you fill in the gaps left by one broken beat track, with the stuff from another. Then you end up making new beats.
And it really makes chopping and cutting loads of fun.

However, it is sometimes easier to mix off of the hats, or something else other than the kicks, you you just really have to have your ear learning and beat matching down.

I`ve been dealing almost exclusively with non 4 to the floor techno for years now, it really is rewarding on a big rig when the beats start playing off of each other. Very tribal.

It just takes an actually good DJ to deal with it.

[SigEnt]

Try and listen to the cycles of the the Breaks, count to either 8 or 16 in your head and mentally place the kick.

Find 2 records:

1) a record with a steady breakbeat in it that you know well, match it with

2) a record that has just a section with a basic kick (or kick clap/snare, nothing too busy or with too much obvious swing).

Get used to matching those two records, once you have "burned" the idea of placing the kickdrum against a break into your head and can match them both in time you will find it piss easy to repeat the process with other records.

you can then move onto cutting parts of the break over your more solid "four to floor" records

Also, if you want to get to crazy breaks from not to busy Techno, find a records that has both of the elements in common (Breaks and a solid kick) to use as a transition record.......... for example something like this: youtu.be/EUFAFS33kYw

[Planar]

The best stuff is when you mix different types of broken beats together, you end up with wonderful syncopation, really powerful, and not just boom tish. I love it.
My advice is don`t put together broken beat stuff with similar broken beats, it kinda defeats the point.
You have to think like a drummer, study a bit of syncopation maybe, because it becomes most interesting when you fill in the gaps left by one broken beat track, with the stuff from another. Then you end up making new beats.
And it really makes chopping and cutting loads of fun.

However, it is sometimes easier to mix off of the hats, or something else other than the kicks, you you just really have to have your ear learning and beat matching down.

I`ve been dealing almost exclusively with non 4 to the floor techno for years now, it really is rewarding on a big rig when the beats start playing off of each other. Very tribal.

It just takes an actually good DJ to deal with it.

This is really, really hard to do. I get this in DnB stuff a lot as I hate a constant 2-step. They're the kind of mixes I practice and still expect to fuck up.

[Mslwte]

youtu.be/EUFAFS33kYw

Gonk

[Críoch]

@Simon

Last Ninja FTW

[Lost to the Void]

The best stuff is when you mix different types of broken beats together, you end up with wonderful syncopation, really powerful, and not just boom tish. I love it.
My advice is don`t put together broken beat stuff with similar broken beats, it kinda defeats the point.
You have to think like a drummer, study a bit of syncopation maybe, because it becomes most interesting when you fill in the gaps left by one broken beat track, with the stuff from another. Then you end up making new beats.
And it really makes chopping and cutting loads of fun.

However, it is sometimes easier to mix off of the hats, or something else other than the kicks, you you just really have to have your ear learning and beat matching down.

I`ve been dealing almost exclusively with non 4 to the floor techno for years now, it really is rewarding on a big rig when the beats start playing off of each other. Very tribal.

It just takes an actually good DJ to deal with it.

This is really, really hard to do. I get this in DnB stuff a lot as I hate a constant 2-step. They're the kind of mixes I practice and still expect to fuck up.

With vinyl it can be tricky for sure

[Planar]

With vinyl it can be tricky for sure

Ha, yeah, maybe we should all qualify what we mean when we talk mixing. I'm always beatmatching vinyl via DVS (scratch live) with the odd bit of proper vinyl as well when I can be arsed to dig out what I want. This type of mix can be a proper cunt for me; I should practice more.

[Wiu]

Here's a crazy thought. You don't HAVE to beat mix every track! Quite often just dropping a track in out of nowhere can be very powerful in my opinion. Being a vinyl DJ, I often just stop the deck for that nice sudden stop sound, or the good old spinback, turn off the deck slow wind down or just a straight crossfade cut are all good too.

Maybe check out some scratch DJ/turntablist videos to pick up some useful tips you could bring to your set?

[simon_marklar]

thanks for the tips.

I should quantify the question and say that i've been mixing for about 15 years now, but always 4x4. My style is to choose the right tracks, and looooong mix, cutting , eqing and using the volume to make blend them and make them sound like one. This really is piss simple with 4x4. I've lost track of the times where i've sat down with a fresh set of music that i've only heard previews of and belted out a mix of 4x4 that I was happy with. Broken beat, OTOH...

I think oddmyth and Ttinga hit the nail on the head. Especially oddmyth, some tracks just dont sound right when layered. And I guess i'm so used to being able to just choose a track and off we go, failing so often is a shock to the system... broken beat seems to need a lot practice, shorter mixes, lots of experimenting with tracks to find ones that match rather than just going for it and i guess way more tracks to select from than i have.

thanks guys, you've given me some thoughts, and solidified my gut feeling about what i need to do. keep the suggestions coming!

[Lost to the Void]

You can actually play pretty fast and loose with broken stuff, go check old Grovskopa 3 deck mixes for examples, you don`t really need to over plan it.

[oddmyth]

I think oddmyth and Ttinga hit the nail on the head. Especially oddmyth, some tracks just dont sound right when layered. And I guess i'm so used to being able to just choose a track and off we go, failing so often is a shock to the system... broken beat seems to need a lot practice, shorter mixes, lots of experimenting with tracks to find ones that match rather than just going for it and i guess way more tracks to select from than i have.

It is shocking and kinda depressing innit? It's one of the reasons it took me so long to put together my last Cue mix, really takes the wind out of your sails when you nail a track to track mix and then can't for the life of you figure out how to mix out of that track!

This is exactly what I addressed in the Cue 3 mix in my signature here, breaking out of my usual style of mixing and mixing snippets of tracks quickly with broken beat / "industrial" sounding techno (admittedly I did shy away from some of the more uber complex stuff I had purchased, but I spent weeks trying to make some of that work, with little to no results). I wrote a little about the process on my website as well, but yeah, it took me ages to mix and I still want to go back and re-mix certain parts to really make it a homerun.

[ashley BORG]

I think the structure of Broken beat Techno is quite different from Broken beat DnB. The DnB stuff has very simple intros, sometime just hi-hats with pads, making it pretty simple to mix up to the drop.

Most Techno isn't drop dependant meaning that even mixing intros can sound a bit messy. I think one key aspect to mixing broken beat is using the EQ's. Personally having mixed DnB I don't think the beat match part is difficult, but getting the elements to sound right together I think is more a matter of EQ mixing.

There are very few broken beat mixes I've heard where the DJs predominantly beat match. I'd say 80% are straight drops, and the ones which are beatmatched are short.
I think generally the style between 4/4 and broken beat are that different.
I like broken beat, but don't play it as the core of my sets since the style of mixing doesn't suit how I want to play.