Surgeon Interview. Performing and DJing with ableton

[Mattias]

...the hell have I been missing?

[nicknack]

@wapwap!

i'll take that as a complement coming from a fellow animal enthusiast. did i ever tell you about the time i nearly fucked my pet fox terrier. i chickened out at the last minute because he started whimpering and i realized my cock was simply to large for his arse. puberty what a schlep. i still have a few more dirty secrets to divulge. i asked my sister to give me a blow job and it ended up in my diving her instead the wiley little minx. i felt guilty for years and thought i was i child molester. she was 12 and i was just about to turn 16. but as it turns out, maybe she's the master mind here. what else. my mother's made sexual passes at me multiple times but thankfully i've never followed that course. many many attempts have been made to lead me into gaydom but i've successfully routed all of them. what else? oh yes, i shat my pants to the ripe age of 14. probably one of the reasons i didn't have many friends then. there we go all my filthy dirty secrets out.

too long i have a movie to watch.

Enjoy!

[Críoch]

Erm... So.. Yeah, anyway.. Meanwhile on planet earth.. What do you guys think of that Surgeon interview?

[Hades]

Yet they deserve the crowd and you see them in their true light.
There are people like Freddie Mercury who know that if you present yourself as the king, with time people will see you as a king. There are people like who know nothing about it because they never took interest in presentation and concentrated only on the music.
Just think about it - Inigo Kennedy had more than a hundred vinyl releases before joining Token, yet he was never particularly big, or hyped up. All the people "in the know" used to say that he deserves so much more recognition for what he does, yet the way he presented his work left everyone speechless when you ask them "what's your favorite Inigo track". It was madness! A brilliant DJ, a brilliant producer, yet nobody knows! Then he joins a label run by someone who knows how to run and present a label, and suddenly - boom. He explodes and everyone goes apeshit over his music, as they should.

Yeah, marketing can be shit when it produces a Miley Cyrus, but it is also good when you get Boards of Canada or Zebra Katz.

That whole "deserving a crowd" thing is so relative.
One person might like this or that, another might not.
Who can decide which artists deserve a crowd and which artists don't ?
If it would be the music only, the people could decide for themselves.
Of course, I know very well people are lazy so if no good marketing brings them into contact with artist X or Y's great music, most people will never discover it, but as you said yourself : sometimes utter shite is shoved down our troats as "great music".

Sorry, but I was buying Boards of Canada when they released one of their first singles "Hi-scores" in 96, then bought "Music Has the Right..." (still one of the best album titles I ever heard),
by the time I was hearing Geogaddi and everyone was going apeshit I had long lost my interest.
all the muffled voices, the "slow LFO on pitch"-leads,...
It was fun for a while, but the marketing made them seem like they were fantastic, and though they're definitely not bad, there are so many others out there who (in my opinion) are far better.
The marketing was in my opinion exactly what blew their "talent" way out of proportion, in my opinion.


Inigo Kennedy I've known for years. Didn't even know he "exploded" now.

Always hated Freddie fucking Mercury and Queen in general...

Just for the record, I'm not trying to say "ow look at me, I've known these artists before marketing made them big", because the longer I dig around on discogs listening to every back catalogue record of an artist I come across and who's track(s) I like (hoping most of them will have youtube video's), the more I realise how much great music there is out there to find if you put in some time, and how very little I know about anything.

I just don't really like too much marketing. In my opinion the music should ALWAYS come first, and too much marketing can destroy a lot of that simple fact. All of a sudden, artists can become "forced" (even if it's only in a mild manner) to produce tracks which fit a certain style that is in fashion now, or are "forced" to uphold a certain image.
I know those hand stamped limited vinyl releases can be just as well to create "hype" and all that,
but if there's one thing I like about techno it's that people sometimes release stuff completely anonimously, or under names like 145.87.658 or whatever.
No images on the record sleeve (though I love good art-work), just the music and nothing else.
I like that.

I know an ambient producer who just released his last album on CD.
Just a week later he sent around an email saying he would release the album on vinyl if 100 persons paid upfront. Each person would have his name written on the vinyl sleeve, so it would make reselling for profit a lot harder (though no doubt that might still happen).
In less than 3 days he had all the money he needed to do the pressing.
That's a perfect example of how the music itself and nothing else can also work.
But, of course, this is for people who don't need to make a living out of music. They can just do as they please and not care about getting bookings.

[jordanneke]

Haven't read the full 9 pages...

Someone should post up the man-train for ultimate derailment purposes.

[nicknack]

i don't see how calling yourself satanic and posting good looking pictures of your self all over the place is marketing yourself. it is repulsive. the only thing that has me buying music is music. the other stuff is peripheral and that is why i actually buy it. if the "marketing" were a priority as you suggest, it'd just be an immediate turn off. no sale.

no these things all carry with them a piece of the artists beliefs. what they are about. gangster rap is not gangster for the purpose of marketing. it doesn't start out that way at least. those cunts are gangsters.

[Críoch]

Haven't read the full 9 pages...

Someone should post up the man-train for ultimate derailment purposes.

Haha.. Fighting fire with Semtex - interesting Jordan!! What could go wrong mate

[Lag]

That whole "deserving a crowd" thing is so relative.
One person might like this or that, another might not.
Who can decide which artists deserve a crowd and which artists don't ?
If it would be the music only, the people could decide for themselves.
Of course, I know very well people are lazy so if no good marketing brings them into contact with artist X or Y's great music, most people will never discover it, but as you said yourself : sometimes utter shite is shoved down our troats as "great music".

Sorry, but I was buying Boards of Canada when they released one of their first singles "Hi-scores" in 96, then bought "Music Has the Right..." (still one of the best album titles I ever heard),
by the time I was hearing Geogaddi and everyone was going apeshit I had long lost my interest.
all the muffled voices, the "slow LFO on pitch"-leads,...
It was fun for a while, but the marketing made them seem like they were fantastic, and though they're definitely not bad, there are so many others out there who (in my opinion) are far better.
The marketing was in my opinion exactly what blew their "talent" way out of proportion, in my opinion.


Inigo Kennedy I've known for years. Didn't even know he "exploded" now.

Always hated Freddie fucking Mercury and Queen in general...

Just for the record, I'm not trying to say "ow look at me, I've known these artists before marketing made them big", because the longer I dig around on discogs listening to every back catalogue record of an artist I come across and who's track(s) I like (hoping most of them will have youtube video's), the more I realise how much great music there is out there to find if you put in some time, and how very little I know about anything.

I just don't really like too much marketing. In my opinion the music should ALWAYS come first, and too much marketing can destroy a lot of that simple fact. All of a sudden, artists can become "forced" (even if it's only in a mild manner) to produce tracks which fit a certain style that is in fashion now, or are "forced" to uphold a certain image.
I know those hand stamped limited vinyl releases can be just as well to create "hype" and all that,
but if there's one thing I like about techno it's that people sometimes release stuff completely anonimously, or under names like 145.87.658 or whatever.
No images on the record sleeve (though I love good art-work), just the music and nothing else.
I like that.

I know an ambient producer who just released his last album on CD.
Just a week later he sent around an email saying he would release the album on vinyl if 100 persons paid upfront. Each person would have his name written on the vinyl sleeve, so it would make reselling for profit a lot harder (though no doubt that might still happen).
In less than 3 days he had all the money he needed to do the pressing.
That's a perfect example of how the music itself and nothing else can also work.
But, of course, this is for people who don't need to make a living out of music. They can just do as they please and not care about getting bookings.

There is something that I can't seem to explain to my boss either for three years now (and we are in mass media so he really needs to figure this thing out) - you can't use yourself and the people around you as a model and build around it. As George Carlin said - imagine an averagely intelligent person, and now consider that half of the world population is stupider than that. If you grabbed a BoC release that early - you are not the average music customer. You are not even your average underground edm customer. You belong to the eeny teeny percentage of the music consumers who actively tracks good music, and that eeny teeny percentage pays for just the eeny teeny percentage of record costs and artist bills! Hell man, even I don't belong to that group, and I'm supposed to be deep in it.
Somehow though I've known for Ontal since they started doing stuff. I've known they do great music since I've heard the first snippets of their stuff on Soundcloud. Now, 3-4 releases later, people are beginning to notice them - and it would have taken a lot more time if Boris didn't know how to promote the stuff ie if he didn't do interviews and released it on labels he knew were gonna do a good job marketing it. Why not take a shortcut and unleash the awesomeness of Ontal NOW instead of waiting for 5-6 releases to go unnoticed and wait for a big break? Hell, look at Tolkachev. The guy has been doing music for years, and it was only when Nina Kravitz shared a track of his that people actually noticed him, and now he's all over and every label wants a Tolkachev remix.
With some stuff you just know it's gonna work, and marketing is a good way to accelerate it.

[surface]

I love when that happens, someone who is making tracks that you enjoy and you can see the interest growing over time. There is a russian guy going by the alias Pixelord that I picked up on a couple of years ago and he's finally getting some recognition these days. It's not techno but I enjoy listening to what he comes up with.
It's great to see cos it's like confirmation that you know here's a guy that is throwing everything into his music and it's finally paying off but a little bit of me thinks "damn, now everyone knows"

[Lag]

I grew up on pop and still love it, so never had a problem with everyone loving what I'm loving - as long as it's good music. I have a problem with people not loving music even though it's good, and not giving it a chance only cause it's not popular (or popular for that matter).

This reminds me - here's a good podcast on how people's brains cope with audio patterns they haven't encountered before.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91514-sound-as-touch/

[asm]

i will guarantee you, the last place you'll ever see my face is at HOG. not because of the whole blasphemy thing but rather because it looks like a fucking zoo.

OK you got me there. But I do like zoos, thinking of going to Marwell at the weekend. They've got dinosaurs too.

[Lost to the Void]

Marketing works because most people need to be told what to think.
It is incredibly sad, but true.

And I hate it.

People who work in advertising should be rounded up and gassed.

[Lost to the Void]

incidentally with out something like a christian doctrine i reckon the world would go to shit. cannibalism would become a fashion statement. human fetuses would be come a dining delicacy. burning one or two of your children would bring you good fortune. pimping your underage daughters in times of hardship would be understandable. throwing widows in large ovens would become convenient since they would no longer be useful anymore. genocide and ethnic cleansing would become a matter of process.

You do realise that Christian doctrine has been responsible for so many of the most heinous and evil acts committed by man in history right?

In the long run the nazis have got nothing on Christianity.

Without Christian doctrine the world would be a much much better place.

Because ethics come before morality, and are present in all cultures, and you do t need Christian doctrine to behave ethically.

As if Christianity suddenly invented how to behave properly......

[surface]

It was the egyptians that taught me to be nice to the dunglebeatle.
I have yet to meet one, but when i do, i'll give it a hand to push that ball up the dune.
I'll even let it see where it's going for a change.
Then we will all be gauranteed sunshine for another day.
Everyone likes sunshine right? ..

[Lost to the Void]

Don't forget to leave out some mince pies for Santa

[AxeD]

I don't get the discussion though. Is it about Surgeon being a scary cult leader using religion
as a promotional weapon or something? Is he Santa?

I have honestly only heard his records and seen him play. He has been making great music since I was fuckin three years old or something

[Críoch]

What discussion? Everyone is doing their own thing man. What would you like to talk about? Haha

[Hades]

Marketing works because most people need to be told what to think.
It is incredibly sad, but true.

And I hate it.

People who work in advertising should be rounded up and gassed.

yeah, that sums it up perfectly.

"here we are now, entertain us" was probably one of the most relevant song lyrics I ever heard in my youth.

Thank god I kicked out cable 19 years ago.
Of course I still watch tons of films and some series, but I go actively searching for what I want to watch instead of switching on the tv and choose the least worst thing that is on (I know things have changed with HD recorders and stuff, thank god for that, cause some day my girls are gonna be nagging for cable tv, but not before I reach 20 years without it first though )
I love the fact it cuts me out of advertisements for a huge part (even though of course there's still billboards in the streets and so on, or even bloody hell youtube commercials, god I hate that shit !! If I gotta watch that gilette commercial once more where this guy shaves off his whole chest and belly hair I'm gonna puke, I swear !! Or "Komplete 9, it's a complete frenzy !!" already have it, you idiots, stop bugging me with that stuff for christs sakes)

But in any case I really believe that's a big difference : between actively looking for books/films/music/whatever and just being told by readerstore/cable tv/radio what you're supposed to read/watch/listen to. I hope I can teach my kids that : there's a whole fucking world of information to discover if you actively LOOK instead of letting yourself be told what to like/read/...

I never listen to radio either. Or if I do, it's early morning while my wife puts on a radio station that is classical music only.
I get terribly annoyed by 90% of all the radio stations (internet radio excluded), even the classical one my wife puts on sometimes gets on my nerves cause they seem to forget people are still making wonderful classical music pieces today. It's like they refuse to play anything that's younger than say from 1975 or so. Idiots.

@Lag, you're probably right. I'm probably in that tiny 1% (though I feel it's arrogant to say so).
I don't "think" about that, it's just how it's always been. I don't understand how the other 99% can be like that. Like Void says : why let others decide what you think/like ??? To me that seems insane.

Back in the days when I DJ'ed, it was a normal result from being the guy with the biggest music collection. Nowadays everyone can download tons of tracks for free, so it doesn't need as much commitment as it did back then. I had to invest all my pocket money into my music, all of it, for years and years and years, now you can get it all for free if you want.
Same for my gear : I bought my first synth in 94, and all it had was GM sounds (aaargghh !!! )
but there was no internet widely spread, so no way I could find something better in used condition anywhere near the shithole town I grew up in.
And I needed a sequencer onboard, so yeah.
Nowadays anyone with a computer can get some freeware and be making tunes.

I actually think it's good that everyone nowadays has the opportunity to make music, but of course it also made sure the internet gets flooded with shit music.
Anyway, I'll stop the old idiot rant now.

[Hades]

Hilfiger and techno...that's just nasty in my book. Fucked up nasty ..

I hate Hilfiger with a passion as well,
I even hate to admit a pair of Hilfiger jeans is keeping my butt warm as I type this. (would never wear a sweater or pullover from hilfiger though)
Just cause fashion is trying to tell me skinny jeans is all hot I ain't gonna wear skinny jeans.
I want fucking bootcut models so my globes can fit underneath and what man looks good in skinny jeans anyway ??
So now I gotta buy any pair of semi loose almost bootcut jeans I can get my hands on (no matter if they're from Hilfiger) cause bootcut jeans have been almost impossible to find for a few years now, and it's all the fault of the fucking hipster faggots with their skinny jeans !

Gotta love the screaming of that bitch at the end of the Timmy Hillnigger video though,
Would make great samples for a techno track !

[Lost to the Void]

Fashion is just another way to get you to consume shit you don't need on a regular basis.

Oh your old shoes are fine?
Sorry, they are out of fashion, buy these.

Oh this months new trend makes you look stupid?
Yeah, we know, but we paid this asshole to wear it, so now you will wear it.

Get told what to wear, get told what to listen to etc etc.....

Society is designed to alienate those who are not "good faithful consumers".


It makes me laugh when I see a guy (or a girl) with the whole outfit from some picture in a clothes shop or a magazine advert.

Like they literally just saw the picture and then went and bought exactly what was shown to them.
I just think, "what happened to your mind man? Do you even use it?"

And why does everyone start wearing the same shit?
Because everyone is wearing the same shit.

Culling is a necessary act of life......

Cull the herd man.
Cull the herd.