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Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering tools

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:26 am
by kertikristof
Hello everyone,
this post should have been published long time ago, but now the time is here.

In this Summer I contacted Steve Voidloss about a gain staging device idea and started to work on one.
The result is a MaxForLive device called Surgery, a logarithmic mixing tool. It allows the user to get extremely high precision to set the levels around 0 db. Furthermore, it has a mono summing option and a quick high-pass filter.

Surgery page with video and manual:
https://intech.studio/p/?&page=Max4Live&id=1504

Spy is a simple RMS meter and I made it because I missed in Ableton's Utility to go down to -inf db. Also it looks cool and can measure effectively inter device signal flow.

Spy page with video and manual:
https://intech.studio/p/?&page=Max4Live&id=1503




(ps: I was posting here as 0xa, but that alias got nothing to do with me anymore. )

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:46 pm
by nacorcb
Great, thank you very much for this, I really missed integrated VU meters a bigger gain levels display between effects and racks.

This solves it completely.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:09 pm
by Críoch
Hi 0xa.. or whoever you are! :mrgreen:

Great work. Will definitely find this incredibly useful!!

Thanks for sharing :)

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:47 pm
by kertikristof
Yeah guys, thanks for the kind words!

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:43 pm
by Lost to the Void
I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:04 am
by pottering
Thank you!

I like how Surgery has a max value and only goes down from there, feels safer.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:10 pm
by dubdub
Lost to the Void wrote:I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.
Do you use surgery for mixing ie. as a replacement for the regular channel faders or just for general gainstaging?

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:23 pm
by Lost to the Void
dubdub wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:I literally use this in every single project since the 1st alpha version.
Uber useful.
I think you should have a donate button at least.
Do you use surgery for mixing ie. as a replacement for the regular channel faders or just for general gainstaging?
I mainly use it for automating fades on channels. It sits at the end of the fx chain on a bus or track.
That way I can change the channel faders without effecting automation fades. And as I do everything via controllers, you need log gain control as when you get close to zero is when you get the most noticable changes in the mix.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:11 pm
by intrusav
This sounds interesting. Nice idea. Will check it out ..

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:53 pm
by jordanneke
Downloaded for R Whoretin.

In all seriousness, I am gonna use this tonight.

You should have a donate button.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:13 pm
by intrusav
Bread & Butter ..

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:43 pm
by kertikristof
intrusav wrote:Bread & Butter ..
Now I get it... :D

Thank you guys for the support. In early 2018 I am planning to add Mid/Side processing and advanced panning options to Surgery.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:20 pm
by P0607r0n
Very good stuffs.
Gonna download them asap... And yeah donation button is a good idea to have there. ;>

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:19 pm
by nacorcb
Mmm... is it possible to increase Spy VU meter needle accuracy for the next update?

Currently it doesnt correlate well with any VU meter pluging reading.

I always have a VU meter plugin on the master bus pinned on screen to adjust track gains, but I would love to have individual VU meters in everytrack without eating screen space.

Spy is exactly what I was looking for, but unfortunately Spy VU meter reading doesnt correlate well.

I wouldnt mind to pay for it.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:54 pm
by nacorcb
EDIT: Is the third line starting from the right on the VU meter display supposed to be 0 VU?

If so, then the reading works quite well.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:29 pm
by nacorcb
Ugh, third line starting from the left, my mistake.

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:09 pm
by kertikristof
nacorcb wrote:Mmm... is it possible to increase Spy VU meter needle accuracy for the next update?

Currently it doesnt correlate well with any VU meter pluging reading.

I always have a VU meter plugin on the master bus pinned on screen to adjust track gains, but I would love to have individual VU meters in everytrack without eating screen space.

Spy is exactly what I was looking for, but unfortunately Spy VU meter reading doesnt correlate well.

I wouldnt mind to pay for it.
The third tick from the right indicates 0db and also if it passes it, the indicator turns red. Under the small info tab, I summarized the different VU display formats available.

Image

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:39 pm
by nacorcb
I have tested a pure sinewave at -18 dB, and Spy VU meter needle sits barely on the third tick from the left (not from the right).

Other VU meter plugin needles sit exactly at 0 VU; or +2 VU if calibrated at -20 dB instead the standard -18 dB.

Not a big issue because I can just take this into account and consider the third tick from the left as 0 VU but... you know, could you also test it?

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:28 pm
by kertikristof
@nacorcb I tested it also, with the "VU" preset and yes, if you feed a sine wave at -18 db to Spy, the RMS value (under the visualization) will output -38db and will reach the third tick from the left.

This happens because the VU type visualization works with -20db offset. If you want to reach 0db with VU type, you have to feed a +20db sine wave into it.

This is how it works for now. :)

Re: Surgery & Spy - Two MaxForLive gain staging & metering t

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:43 pm
by Lost to the Void
Should probably use -18db as standard no?
It is....standard.