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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:24 pm 
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winston wrote:
he got a new 15inch touchbar one,
.


what's even with that touchbar ?? (no offense winston)
I mean, seriously, why would you even need that shit ?
I already have a ribbon controller on my Andy, thank you very much, and I wouldn't have paid extra for my Andy just to get that thing.
As far as I can tell from where I'm sitting, that touchbar is just the "next-hot-sell-item".
It's the next gizmo, and nothing else.

winston wrote:
but upgraded the hdd to 500gb ssd. it turned out quite pricey as OP says these apple upgrades do, but 128gb is just way too small IMO. isn't the full ableton suite pack around 40-50gb? with background updates and other bs you have no control over, 128gb will be gone in no time. i get you can have external hdd etc, but i'd rather have the convenience of all things on the laptop and ext hdd for backup.
.


I totally agree regarding the HD space !!
Here's what I want from an MBP when I buy one : obviously, the fastest processor possible, the biggest amount of RAM, and the biggest SSD.
I pay serious money to get that stuff,
but it means I can install everything I want onto my main SSD, and I don't need to drag around external HD's with sample libraries and blablabla.
So yeah, first MBP I bought (now about 9 years ago), had a 256Gb drive, and I replaced it with a 512Gb drive later on.
I remember the last year or so that I was using it, I was in constant search for free HD space.
But in all fairness, it did get abused pretty much non-stop for 6 years, and even at the time I bought my next MBP,
the computer was still working, but the screen had died on me :)

So eventually I bought another MBP (now 3 years ago), and I had to pay an extra 400€ just to get a 1TB SSD,
(knowing very well 512Gb just wouldn't cut it any more)
and because Apple was smart enough to have that SSD memory soldered to the mainboard, it meant that if you didn't take the extra memory from the start,
you were not able to upgrade later on unless you replaced the whole motherboard as well. :|

But yeah, 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD, it's been working fine for 98% of the time.
Of course, I also had to buy like 3 or 4 convertor pieces just to be able to connect all the shit I had been using for years,
and that stuff probably costed me another 150 to 200€ in total, but hey...

I fucking despise them for putting on less and less ports on their MBP's. It's just plain stupid and a safe and easy way for them to make extra money.
People have more and more external shit they need to connect through their USB ports,
so why would you put less ports on your MBP ?
Yeah, most of us are using USB hubs (I've been using one for years), but I don't doubt we are the more demanding customers,
so I'm pretty sure this frustration must exist just as well with the more regular customers.

Anyway, last time I checked the latest MBP models, I could only find 512Gb SSD as the biggest HD option.
Which finally makes me reach the end of my patience with Apple !
I don't honestly need a laptop (at the time an MBP was just always cheaper than a Mac Pro),
and next time, I'm going to build my own desktop and install OSX on it (windows as well, but only for practical reasons)
Because the ONLY thing I can honestly say that I still love on a mac after al these years, is the OS.
Sure the HW is more reliable, but they make you fucking pay for it 3x the price it would actually cost you.

Fuck you Apple, go serve the hipster crowd, I'm done wih you. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:35 pm 
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I bought my ultralite mk3 in Oct 15. Whoops - that was a quick year :)

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:30 pm 
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asm wrote:
So my 15" Macbook Pro has died and for a variety of reasons I've been given £500 credit towards a replacement Mac. Its only valid in an Apple store (so a refurb is not an option).

I've got kids and xmas is upon us, so I'm feeling the pinch and can't really justify the expense of a machine I'd really want.

The base level 15" MBP (non-touchbar) looks to be the best value for a performance machine. The base level 13" MBP has 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD, which may be ok (if I upgrade the RAM+SSD on this it starts approaching the price of the 15").

The new Macbook looks pretty, but I expect that the single usb-c port will be problematic.

The Macbook Air is the cheapest, but it is a bit old and about to retire, and the weakest performance wise. Makes the most sense in terms of immediate cash flow.

Would I regret buying the cheapest Macbook Air? Should I just suck it up and find the money for a MBP? Go all out for the 15"? Sell one of my kids?

Given the machines that I have worked with in the past, anything _should_ have the power. But all software seems to need more power year upon year so that doesn't always hold.

First world problems!


First, I would avoid the MacBook Air unless you travel all the time and really need your laptop to be super light.

As far as MBPs go, you might want to look into a 2015 model. They are heavier than the new ones, but (a) the performance is about the same as the 2016 models, (b) they come with USB and thunderbolt ports and (c) you can get one at a discount.

Whatever you do, the key is making sure you have 16gb RAM. OS X is very efficient in terms of how it handles audio, so you don't need as much RAM as a Windows machine does to run audio programs smoothly (esp if you are doing it without an external interface). But you do need to max out the RAM, as it's soldered onto the motherboard and so isn't user replaceable on the laptops anymore--so you need to max out your RAM at the point of purchase.

...and that sort of captures the situation with Apple for me, good and bad. I love OS X as a software platform--it's based on BSD Unix and is both a pleasure to use and incredibly efficient. But Apple are really annoying as a hardware manufacturer. I don't get why they can't keep making a heavier version of the MBPs with more ports, why they backed the (awesome) thunderbolt protocol, then abandoned it, or why you can't replace the goddamned RAM yourself. So irritating.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:20 pm 
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So, today is the day. I may as well take advantage of the Black Friday gift card offer...

Now the choice is between 3 machines (non-touchbar 'slower' MBPs)....

MBP13 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD £750 cost to me.
MBP13 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD £950 cost to me.
MBP15 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD £1400 cost to me.

MBP 13s are dual core, 15 quad core. Just spotted MBP 15 is the 2015 (slower memory/older chip/more ports/heavier)

Almost certain not to bother with the 128GB one. But it is the cheapest.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:21 pm 
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asm wrote:
So, today is the day. I may as well take advantage of the Black Friday gift card offer...

Now the choice is between 3 machines (non-touchbar 'slower' MBPs)....

MBP13 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD £750 cost to me.
MBP13 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD £950 cost to me.
MBP15 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD £1400 cost to me.

MBP 13s are dual core, 15 quad core. Just spotted MBP 15 is the 2015 (slower memory/older chip/more ports/heavier)

Almost certain not to bother with the 128GB one. But it is the cheapest.


as long as you want to remain a mac slave...
get the MBP15 if that's the quad core.
as long as you don't upgrade it, it'll probably run fine for years...

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:39 pm 
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asm wrote:
So, today is the day. I may as well take advantage of the Black Friday gift card offer...

Now the choice is between 3 machines (non-touchbar 'slower' MBPs)....

MBP13 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD £750 cost to me.
MBP13 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD £950 cost to me.
MBP15 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD £1400 cost to me.

MBP 13s are dual core, 15 quad core. Just spotted MBP 15 is the 2015 (slower memory/older chip/more ports/heavier)

Almost certain not to bother with the 128GB one. But it is the cheapest.


Get the 2015 15" model. No contest in my book--the same one I have, though mine has a bigger HDD. It's a wonderful machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Sure the HW is more reliable


Really can't be arsed to open this Mac Vs PC can of worms, but I have to say something about this. And what I have to say is that that ^^^ is not true.

The disks die, the RAM dies, fans die, power supply cords on the laptops were at one time a total piece of shit (don't know these days) and there was an absolutely appalling fault with some Mac laptops a few years ago where the GPU cooling was so poorly designed that normal usage would cause problems with the soldering of the chip to the motherboard, which apple did their absolute utmost to do fuck all about until pressed into action by class action lawsuits.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:11 pm 
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terryfalafel wrote:
Hades wrote:
Sure the HW is more reliable


Really can't be arsed to open this Mac Vs PC can of worms, but I have to say something about this. And what I have to say is that that ^^^ is not true.

The disks die, the RAM dies, fans die, power supply cords on the laptops were at one time a total piece of shit (don't know these days) and there was an absolutely appalling fault with some Mac laptops a few years ago where the GPU cooling was so poorly designed that normal usage would cause problems with the soldering of the chip to the motherboard, which apple did their absolute utmost to do fuck all about until pressed into action by class action lawsuits.


I never said macs never have any trouble.
You know how many different PC shit you could start mentioning just as well ?
Maybe you misunderstood my words where I'm trying to explain I had it with Apple as well.

Let me rephrase my words then, so you can't get annoyed thinking you got another blind Apple fan or something :
All the MBP's I had were always extremely reliable, and I have abused them like crazy.
I never had any serious problem with my MBP's while I did have trouble with all the computers I bought in the past.
This, of course, does not mean that there has never been any trouble with all the macs out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:08 am 
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I had one unreliable Mac--a 2005 PowerPC iMac. Fan belt and overheating issues. Since then I've had 3 Macs: a 2008 iMac (which I still use for Reason 7 and Live 8), a 2010 MBP and my current 2015 MBP. Never had any reliability issues at all. My 2008 iMac is almost 10 years old and still runs fantastically well, given its age. I did upgrade the RAM at one point, but other than that it's never required any maintenance whatsoever. Ditto my two MBPs.

Prior to 2005 I used PCs exclusively.

The thing that annoys me with Apple is the whole "my way or the highway" thing when it comes to hardware. I need ports; I want ports. I'm not inclined to use a laptop that only has 3 USB-C ports.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:42 am 
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Be a real man and build a hackintosh.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:40 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Be a real man and build a hackintosh.


that's exactly what I plan to do in a year or two.
Precisely because of this :

The_G wrote:
The thing that annoys me with Apple is the whole "my way or the highway" thing when it comes to hardware.


And because I had it with them overpricing shit.

Btw, The_G :
doesn't it annoy you that so many years ago, you had a LOT more options when you bought an MBP ?
I remember with my first MBP, I was still able to pay for a non-reflective screen (or whatever you call these in Eglish),
so that if I would be somewhere with too much light hitting the screen directly, I'd still be fine.
Sure I had to pay another 100€ extra, but at least I could still select it.
Now if you can select 1 or 2 options, it's a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Hades wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
Be a real man and build a hackintosh.


that's exactly what I plan to do in a year or two.
Precisely because of this :

The_G wrote:
The thing that annoys me with Apple is the whole "my way or the highway" thing when it comes to hardware.


And because I had it with them overpricing shit.

Btw, The_G :
doesn't it annoy you that so many years ago, you had a LOT more options when you bought an MBP ?
I remember with my first MBP, I was still able to pay for a non-reflective screen (or whatever you call these in Eglish),
so that if I would be somewhere with too much light hitting the screen directly, I'd still be fine.
Sure I had to pay another 100€ extra, but at least I could still select it.
Now if you can select 1 or 2 options, it's a lot.


Yeah, what frustrates me is that they don't let you have options, they just go in one direction and expect the market to follow. Why not have a line of "performance laptops," akin to what Dell does with Alienware? With ports, user replaceable RAM, etc. It's doubly frustrating because I love the software platform, I love the build quality of their products, and I can't stand using Windows.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:24 am 
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hey, don't mention it.
Windows is for at work,
OSX is to be relaxed at home...

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:21 am 
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Update...

I ended up getting a 2017 MBP 13", non-touchbar, 8GB/256GB.

As an aside I also managed to get my 2011 MBP15 working, by hacking it to only use the integrated intel GPU - not the separate AMD GPU with all its thermal issues.

So thats a win for me I think. Little machine, and a bigger machine.

I've tried not to make this about Mac vs PC. I moved to Mac in the early OSX powerpc days because I wanted something that just works. Time is precious. I think that sort of still holds, but the popularity of Apple as a piece of design / fashion has been detrimental for people like me. Having things like RAM and SSD soldered in to same a mm in thickness just pisses me off. £200 extra for another 128GB of SSD doesn't reflect the actual cost.

In the Apple store though I did play with the 27" imac. I like it!

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:31 am 
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Hades wrote:
hey, don't mention it.
Windows is for at work,
OSX is to be relaxed at home...


That's how I feel, though I'd also prefer using OS X at work if they let me.


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:11 am 
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sinesnsnares wrote:
I’ve now got a 2015 mbp, 15 inches. I’m very, very happy with it. My only qualm is that the ssd drive doesn’t have quite enough memory, but I plan on grabbing a USB hub and using my external hard drive anyways.


I recently picked up a 2015 15" MBP as well, a few weeks ago. It's taking over as my main music machine replacing both my (6 years old, nearly dead) PC laptop and my (mostly reliable but not without its moments / not exactly portable) desktop PC build. I travel quite regularly so having a powerful laptop for both home and away felt like the way to go.

So far so good and I'd pretty much agree with you on the lack of memory front, works great with an external hard drive but it's just that extra bit of faff to put in my bag, remember the cable etc. More an issue for music library/DJ stuff than producing to be honest, plenty space for my day-to-day samples etc on the SSD.

My Firewire interface (Saffire 40) works perfectly with the Thunderbolt-Firewire adapter and an 800-400 cable, no issues here although the cost of the adapter did feel a bit steep but maybe less so after the money I spent on the laptop... USB hub is on its way, for home use at least.

Know the OP isn't able to go for refurbished options but just chiming into the general discussion :D


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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:25 am 
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disparate wrote:
My Firewire interface (Saffire 40) works perfectly with the Thunderbolt-Firewire adapter and an 800-400 cable, no issues here although the cost of the adapter did feel a bit steep but maybe less so after the money I spent on the laptop...


ENJOY that shit... seriously.
Apogee never got their shit to work properly via the Thunderbolt=>FW adapter,
and it was a slow world of pain, and it made me decide to never buy ANY of their products ever again.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:42 pm 
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How can you guys use fucking laptops as a main Daw ? I'd rather be addicted to crack than use my laptop as my main Daw ffs...

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:52 pm 
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arkos wrote:
How can you guys use fucking laptops as a main Daw ? I'd rather be addicted to crack than use my laptop as my main Daw ffs...


because when you're a mac slave,
a mac pro is like even 1000€ more expensive than any MBP.

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 Post subject: Re: Macbook Advice...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:43 am 
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Laptops are portable and don't need a lot of space, which suits my living situation right now :P


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