Re: How often do you guys use compression?
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:03 pm
I would also chip in for some compression vids for sure! And thanks hades and lotv!
Underground Music Production / Network / Label
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Erm yes there is, compression is about far more than transients.Mimui wrote:
After you trained your ears on hearing every unwanted transient (wich is verry easy).
It 's safe to say you already mastered compression, there 's nothing more to it.
You are definitely missing something.nacorcb wrote:
I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...
Lost to the Void wrote:You are definitely missing something.nacorcb wrote:
I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...
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Your transients.
The attack portion of a compressor determines how fast the signal will be fully compressed (after exceeding the threshold of course). That's one thing that took me a while to understand, that it's always compressing as soon as it exceeds the threshold. A lot of people think it will take X ms before the signal gets compressed, that's false.nacorcb wrote:Nice to see a good old tech producer here, my respects Tom.
Talking about compression, whats the point about short attack times on drum bus? I mean, with short attack times (less than 10 ms) we would be creating more transient peaks instead of reducing it, wouldnt we?
I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...
Good one!Lost to the Void wrote:You are definitely missing something.nacorcb wrote:
I always use 0 ms attack in drum bus, but maybe I am missing something...
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Your transients.
So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.dubdub wrote:10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.
nacorcb wrote:So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.dubdub wrote:10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that means in drum buss (with no kick present, only percussions, hats, snares, etc) if the goal is to reduce total dynamic range, very fast or even 0 ms attack is needed. Transients are smashed of course, but loudness is increased.
dubdub wrote:There is a lot of modern drum & bass that is super duper loud and still has pretty punchy transients. Not sure how they do it but I don't really care in any case because it just gets really fucking tiring on your ears super quick, I much prefer the older stuff that's still pretty banging but much softer sounding. Fittingly, Rod Modell of Deepchord has written an article about it yesterday. If you ignore the new age bits, he's speaking a lot of truth https://www.xlr8r.com/features/2017/11/ ... deepchord/
You know, loudness obsession. Of course compression is more than that, I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).Lost to the Void wrote:nacorcb wrote:So, if 10 ms attack allows transients to pass, the compressor is not really reducing overall dinamic range (talking about percussive sounds with fast transients of course), it is in fact increasing it.dubdub wrote:10ms is more than enough to let transients through. Really fast compressors work in the microsecond range. I like short-ish attack times on drums and kicks, it keeps the transients presents but also gives the sound a bit more sustain because it reduces that middle part.
Correct me if I am wrong, but that means in drum buss (with no kick present, only percussions, hats, snares, etc) if the goal is to reduce total dynamic range, very fast or even 0 ms attack is needed. Transients are smashed of course, but loudness is increased.
Not exactly, it entirely depends on the settings, You can let the transients pop through, spread out the later portion of the percussion and then use makeup gain to equalise the two.
So you get snappy transients with an increased body.
My main question is what the hell do you have against transients?
Why is the only goal of compression to reduce dynamic range?
That's certainly not why I use compression on my drum bus.
how about working on the mix just a little more so your nasty peaks are simply no longer there ?nacorcb wrote: I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).
No offense, I am an amateur cook who add cream to every sauce I makeHades wrote:how about working on the mix just a little more so your nasty peaks are simply no longer there ?nacorcb wrote: I just like to keep some nasty peaks under control (just a little).
no offense, but at the moment you sound like some amateur cook who adds cream to every sauce he makes,
just because "it always makes things taste better" and it's the easy way out...
nacorcb wrote: No offense, I am an amateur cook who add cream to every sauce I make
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I mean, it is "old man yells at cloud" but I think he has a point with how so many tracks these days have these really sharp transients made for club systems. And most of these aren't really particularly confrontational, they're totally affirming the status quo. You're obviously right with the average loudness but I don't think he was complainign about that specifically.Lost to the Void wrote:dubdub wrote:There is a lot of modern drum & bass that is super duper loud and still has pretty punchy transients. Not sure how they do it but I don't really care in any case because it just gets really fucking tiring on your ears super quick, I much prefer the older stuff that's still pretty banging but much softer sounding. Fittingly, Rod Modell of Deepchord has written an article about it yesterday. If you ignore the new age bits, he's speaking a lot of truth https://www.xlr8r.com/features/2017/11/ ... deepchord/
Honestly that article just came across like an old man complaining about "these young kids and their new music, it all just sounds like noise, in my day there was warmth and blah blah".
There is room for everything, the soft and the hard.
More confrontational music tends to rise up during times of political unrest.
There will always be angry abrasive music rising up against......whatever....including old people moaning about soft music.
Things are actually more dynamic now than they were a few years back. Then prevalence of auto gain correction in media platforms and the rough standard of -13LUFS is meaning mastering engineers can get away with no longer sausaging music.
I have certainly noticed I can keep a better dynamic range with clients being more open to it.
My max would be -6RMS when the average in techno was almost -4.
Now I can keep things around -12LUFS, around -9 RMS and not be out of line with the general trend in dance music.
Things are getting more open in general.