The dark art of the perfect closed offbeat hihat

[dubdub]

The thread about microtimings made me think about something that I've been obsessed about for ages, long before I've started producing - "perfect" straight offbeat hihats. For me, in 4/4 techno the offbeat hihat has always been more important than the kick, even in the club that's what makes me really dance. And while a lot of tracks have hihats that feel very uninspired and are just there to be there, some tracks just seem to have that hihat that sits perfectly in the track, going diagonally against the groove in an impossibly fluid, yet still straight enough zig-zag motion that seems to be entirely static yet perpetually changing. I've spent a lot of time designing and programming hihats yet the rare time where I feel like I've nailed it always seems to be down to dumb luck - I fuck around for two minutes and suddenly it's just there and sits right.

Is there a method to the madness? Do you have any secret tricks for designing and programming hihats? I remember Robert Hood once talking in an interview about "making the hihat sing" and I was just like yes, that's exactly it. But I'm still not exactly sure what makes that perfect hihat "sing". From what I've learned over the years I now believe that it seems to be down to small doses of random timing and velocity variation, the attack-release ratio, track delay and swing, the interplay with the bassline/synth sequence and the right placement and pre-decay of the reverb (at least that's what makes the hat in the tracks below work, I think). But I can spend two hours tweaking these things and still not even get close. Is it just in the feeling? Or is it just the stars aligning and everything in the track comes together along with the hihat? Perfect hihats seem to be more common in 90s techno, which I believe is down not necessarily to analogue magic but just the sheer tempo of the tracks. There's this thing where, above 133 BPM or so, the hihat almost starts skipping over itself, which for me really makes that classic techno sound. I've also noticed that in classic tracks, the closed hihat seems to always be panned slightly left, is that a thing with the 909? While the 909 is obviously the classic sound, I don't think it necessarily needs to be a 909 to get 'that' sound, I've heard some great more modern, noise-based hihats. I tend to fail when working purely with noise though so I like to start with a drum machine hat and add a bit of pure noise in the mix with Live's vocoder plugin. Heavy filtering is another thing I've been experimenting with, with mixed results, sometimes you get a really cool, heavy resonant groove with the filter modulation rhythmically moving but often it just sounds weird. I used to layer hihats a lot but I kinda stopped doing that, do you guys like do to that?

Lol, there's just endless things to talk about. I don't know if this all sounds weird to non-hihat-obsessed people but if you also are, please share your thoughts Also free feel to share examples of what you believe to be a "perfect" offbeat techno hihat.

youtu.be/ent-nP9dKeU
youtu.be/r2yqp6kYt4o

[buffered]

great topic.
Transient shaping - soften the attack and play with the release.
Phase distortion.
Right amount of reverb to place them.
Very very slight random velocity modulation.

These are the ones I've used for years.

Also like a good shaker in place of offbeat hihat.
Looking forward to some new tips....

[Dattington]

great topic.
Transient shaping - soften the attack and play with the release.
Phase distortion.
Right amount of reverb to place them.
Very very slight random velocity modulation.

These are the ones I've used for years.

Also like a good shaker in place of offbeat hihat.
Looking forward to some new tips....

I'd add very slight change to pitch based on velocity and ever so slight delay. 32nd pingpong can be interesting but doesn't always work in context.

[Will Frances]

Often I think that adding elements such as straight 4/4 kick, off 16th hat, 2/4 clap or snare - at the end of the groove building process works nicely. I find this because if you can get a groove going without the above elements when you add them later on they will tie it together and help propell it forward or accentuate the lazy feel of he piece depending on what your after. Also this helps me forget about grids and ridgidity when putting ideas down. Hope that makes sense, i know what im trying to say!

Also
A couple of resampled hits or passages from a recording with a flanger or phaser can help keep variation.
2 or more hats that sound similar used over the piece
layering

[Lost to the Void]

I don`t think it`s a dark art, it`s really quite a simple process, especially if you refer to the 90`s.

It`s simply a case of getting the pitch right, touch of reverb, job done. It`s just about getting the simplicity bang on. The pitch makes all the difference.

When the whole tune is simple, it`s just a case of making sure every element fits it`s space perfectly, the hats carry over via reverb just enough to flow in to the kicks, the kicks flow just enough to lead in to the hats, the other elements dance around within the groove just so..... Tune all the elements so the whole piece is one flowing thing.

[Mattias]

People tend to overthink even the simplest things when it comes to music production. Edit: Which exactly why they miss why the, in this case, hihat is so good.

[dubdub]

I'm getting a masters in philosophy, sorry guys I can't help but overthink everything

I'm aware of how important the pitch and reverb are but I don't think that's just it. The flow thing ... might be it, but isn't that a dark in of itself? I hear very few tracks where everything flows into each other perfectly.

[Lost to the Void]

Not really, a lot of the 90`s stuff was just bashed together on very limited kit. Pitch, reverb, offbeat, job done. It`s how the whole fits together.

[akirawithv]

I don`t think it`s a dark art, it`s really quite a simple process, especially if you refer to the 90`s.

It`s simply a case of getting the pitch right, touch of reverb, job done. It`s just about getting the simplicity bang on. The pitch makes all the difference.

When the whole tune is simple, it`s just a case of making sure every element fits it`s space perfectly, the hats carry over via reverb just enough to flow in to the kicks, the kicks flow just enough to lead in to the hats, the other elements dance around within the groove just so..... Tune all the elements so the whole piece is one flowing thing.

Amem.

[dubdub]

Not really, a lot of the 90`s stuff was just bashed together on very limited kit. Pitch, reverb, offbeat, job done. It`s how the whole fits together.

I get that but can you really replicate that in the box the same way with all the crap that happens when you sync up hardware? i'm not saying it can't be done, I just feel like it will take a bit more effort. But I get that context above all else is important, which I also wrote in the OP.

[Planar]

We've hit peak Subsekt!

[Mattias]

I'm getting a masters in philosophy, sorry guys I can't help but overthink everything

Haha, good reply. Hope it turns out good!

[Lost to the Void]

Not really, a lot of the 90`s stuff was just bashed together on very limited kit. Pitch, reverb, offbeat, job done. It`s how the whole fits together.

I get that but can you really replicate that in the box the same way with all the crap that happens when you sync up hardware? i'm not saying it can't be done, I just feel like it will take a bit more effort. But I get that context above all else is important, which I also wrote in the OP.

I think you are massively over thinking it, ITB or OTB it's not difficult to do.
We are talking about musicality now, really.

[Lost to the Void]

I think I sorta said this earlier in a roundabout sort of way, but as you say, it really is about context.
It`s how it all fits together.

I did this track years ago, (I don`t think it`s the best thing in the world or anything), on a sort of 90`s Millsian vibe, and I always liked the closed hat in this, it remains a solid centre to the groove.
Let`s take taste out of the issue for a minute, this isn`t about liking the tune, but it`s the best example I know where I can pick it apart having made it myself.

The hat really works here I think.
There`s no swing at all, it is pitched right with the kick, so the call and response works, but it`s dead centre to the grid.
The reverb works well to carry it forward, I used a trick I used a lot back then, I applied compression to the hat POST reverb, which pinned the reverb on to the hat, but every time the hat hits it sort of causes the reverb to duck a touch (this wasn`t sidechained). This technique is a good way of making the reverb sound more a part of the sound it is on.

The thing that really gets the groove to work is the way that the shakers are swung quite heavily, but the hat isn`t, so they slide in to the hat, which sort of makes the hat more groovy, even though it is stiff as shit.

youtu.be/23aZ-cS8yaA

It`s the elements around it that give it the groove.
I think really the way to get any groove to work (in techno) in a really pleasing, classic techno, flowing way, is to juxtapose the solid with the loose.
If you swing everything, it sounds too loose to keep the forward drive.
If everything is stiff, it becomes more aggressive and less groovy.
But if you have your solid metronomic elements and allow some other elements to slide around them, then you get the groove, the repetition and the forward drive common to the classic techno sound.

I think Shed was pretty good at doing this (which he did ITB).

There`s no specific mixing techniques, these just help with clarity, it really is about focusing on the musicality.

[intrusav]

Great post. Everything is relative. It's the same with levels, eq and melody. One element relative to the rest of the mix, change one thing slightly and the rest is affected inversely. It's almost like the equivilent of a Dali painting, working inside out. It goes against intuition...

A thing I also like to do is take the start point and/or attack and link it to velocity to replicate a real hihat where the harder you hit it, the more present the initial transient.

Takes a bit of tricking about in the beginning to get the balance but, if it's kept real subtle, it adds that little bit of something ..

[Lost to the Void]

A thing I also like to do is take the start point and/or attack and link it to velocity to replicate a real hihat where the harder you hit it, the more present the initial transient.

That`s a great technique to get natural sounding hat grooves, I used that a fair bit on some stuff recently as I wanted to get in some realistic hat patterns and I no longer have a drum kit.

Great tip.

[dubdub]

I think the hat in that track works well even on it's own. The reverb ducking and the interplay with the bass makes it feel more swung than it really is. I guess in a way that's what techno is all about. Faking the funk You are right about the juxtaposition between straight/swung, I probably make too much stuff off grid.

I will also try the attack/velocity link thing.

[Lag]

A lot of groove comes from misplacement. Not only swing but either making the hihat consistently late for a few miliseconds (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtaYqURCV-c) or humanizing the timing (which a lot of the old machines used to to on their own due to their midi clocks not being the best).
Late hihats/snares/toms/claps etc are the best though. Just listen to how groovy this one is just cause the snare is late and then has additional delay on it to accentuate it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIAZTV_sYtk

[over9000]

thanks for all the tips!
i also found that making most things on grid and make a groove that works has more meaning than slapping a track delay on everything. I really think techno works with the illusion of movement & swing in a track, rather then there is really much of the above.

btw i studied philosophy too dubdubdub dident end up doing anything with it jobwise yet though (suprise suprise )

how can you link the velocity with other parameters in ableton? tried with sampler, but dident find out how?

[Mslwte]

I really think techno works with the illusion of movement & swing in a track

i have to agree with this. your mind can definitely play tricks, thats for sure.