Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

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Plyphon
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Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

Heya,

I'm struggling to create hats that sound like "Sample D" in this release:

https://www.redeyerecords.co.uk/vinyl/8 ... j-tequilla

At the moment I'm pitching down, in Ableton Sampler (just changing the root key down a semitone usually) and this helps, but usually comes with a muddy top end which makes the hat sit awkward in the mix. Sounds partly there though. Applying tape/other saturation just seems to muddy it up more.

Any tips appreciated!

Thanks

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by buffered »

personally for hihats i get best results from using a hardware drum machine and then processing with a transient plugin. softening the attack and increasing the release goes along way. Also if you have an old analog machine, the inherent noise which is slightly different each hit, really adds.
This example sounds like it has some room verb on it. Reverb is also important. When your hats are dry and right up front they sound unnatural. Put a bit of reverb on them and sink them back in the mix.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by rktic »

Plyphon,

TR-505 hats have that distinct sound. Just grab some of those as samples, lowpass to taste.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

Thanks both - I will try a transient shaper - hadn't thought of that one

And I've never used TR-505, looking forward to hunting some samples later.

Cheers!

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Southpaw »

I quite like 505 hats and 707. I think the sounds take well to processing. If you have a hardware sampler, or even say Tal sampler, you could try making a wav file of your hihat hits an octave higher than you intend to use them, then in a sampler which adds colouration, pitch them back down to the original pitch. This engages the sort of algorithm and imparts a slightly lower quality sound to the original. I quite like this effect resampling through the korg volca and es1 but Tal does the same thing. I guess some transient softening and hp filtering and trying out various lp filters say 10k, or 12 k might help with a bit of the lofi too as you dont want it too shiny.
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

Heh - I do that all the time to all my other samples, but never thought to do it to a hi-hat. Absolutely going to try that tonight!

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by dubdub »

Yeah, pitching down with something like TAL sampler instantly gets you into lo-fi territory.

Live's overdrive works really well on drums.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

Just done it now - great sound even in stock ableton sampler. Going to put it into TAL sampler now. Thanks!

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by phredd »

Hey there!

Maybe try some Bitcrushing on top? =)
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

TAL has just given me yet another product boner, love that sampler. Makes everything sound so good.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by CRDM »

TAL sampler, my fav plugin by a long way.

I got this SJ tequilla record the other day actually it's nice. This and the LNS record on freakout cult are great.

To get hats sounding less pristine the pitching technique mentioned can yield nice sounds. EQ / Filtering can soften things and get them sitting in the mix. To avoid shoehorning sourcing the right kind of sample/sound is key.

Tape saturation can soften and take away brashness nicely on hats. If you have something like satin, playing with the bias, pre emphasis, and ips can yield nice eq curves that can help.

2 plugins I really like for crunching things up a bit are slew and slew2 by Airwindows. Slew 1 works in a digital sampler kind of way and crunches things up nicely where as slew2 acts as an EQ kind of thing but for the very top end only and doesn't sound like my EQs. They are both very nice for taking the edge off the top end.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Southpaw »

It's a bit of a rabbit hole for me, not particularly with hats, just the lo fi thing. I like lo fi but not too lo fi, some people just go on about distortion and/or saturation but you can still have 'shiny new' distortion and 'shiny new' saturated. If you look at things which people consider lo fi, maybe portastudio cassette recorders for example, often a lot of it is about the lack of very high end and some stuff can be cutting off at like 10k. I think little bits of each kinda get you there with amounts judged by the individual.

I do like the low quality sampler character esp on loops. A quick kick/clap/hat loop done with decent samples and then recorded to audio, then played back via midi at +12 and exported, into my volca or es1, tuned back to the original pitch and played back into my DAW and recorded, takes on something more than a little bitcrushing effect. For a start, it is being played back at 32khz from both of those devices. The volca doesn't sample directly but the es1 does and that's the rate it samples at. There's also the ability to slightly overdrive the input which can sound nice on some things ( but terrible on others ) But apart from the obvious aliasing type artifact and the reduced top end, transients sound a little different and if its a loop, it kinda meshes everything together in a nice cohesive way, kinda like a sonic glue. There are tails and bits of noise linking the separate sounds together where there weren't originally. Like a background texture rather than the original digital silence. If I chop it back into individual hits, it can be awkward to know where to actually place the slices because of it, but its a nice thing if subtle.

I use wavelab as an audio editor and I have tried exporting sounds at various rates to see how they sound, 32khz 16bit, 8bit 32khz etc etc. Just experiments really, certain hats take well to 8bit. I think some Jomox machines contain 8bit samples, not entirely sure about that though and I have no clue as to whether bitcrushing is the same as the above but don't mind experimenting either way. I've read of people rendering things to a low rate mp3 and then recording them back in as wav. Ive not tried that though. I did ponder over the portastudio thing but I dunno man, I think it's a bit overkill and decided against such a niche thing. I saw a video where Legowelt records a lot of stuff to his Tascam 424 but I don't think it's for me.

I am considering an Akai S series, not even the 950 but either the S1000 or S1100 but I have been looking at the E-mu series and the Roland S760 too. It's only the workflow that's off-putting but I do know first hand that there is a sound that I like with at least those Akai series. There's like a 'papery sheen' thing going on with drum sounds and a creamy/musky musical thing going on with pads and chords esp when you go in with a single note and use the sampler to make the chords and an LP filter. That's a personal thing though, I like the sonic texture of a lot of 90's deep house & jungle and there's tons of that Akai S sound in those records and is probably more to do with character than actual lo fi but for me they all come under the umbrella term of character.

Another thing that sounds quite lo fi to me at times is simply mono, even mono reverb. Make a hat loop sound a little lo fi, put some stereo reverb on it and it almost modernizes it but make the reverb mono and it kinda sits there and fits in with the lo fi-ness of the hats. At least to my ears.

I recently caught a few videos on something called Audioease Speakerphone and it looked really interesting until I saw the price. Essentially it's about imparting the sonic character of one thing onto another. Impulse responses are the main thing but I suppose there's much more going on under the hood. Huge amount of possibilities though and one guy was imparting the sound of a VHS cassette onto an otherwise shiny synth loop. He did it to quite an extrem but it did actually sound like some 70's tv thing an Immediately though it sounded very Boards Of Canada - like. It still has my attention but I'd have to look way more into it to decide whether it would interest me long term or not.

But yeah, interesting thread. I am all ears for picking up some other ideas too...
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by terly »

I struggled with this for a couple years before mostly giving in to the fact that I might prefer crisper drums

Pitching in a sampler and low passing will get you most of the way there though

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

Southpaw wrote:
I do like the low quality sampler character esp on loops. A quick kick/clap/hat loop done with decent samples and then recorded to audio, then played back via midi at +12 and exported, into my volca or es1, tuned back to the original pitch and played back into my DAW and recorded, takes on something more than a little bitcrushing effect. For a start, it is being played back at 32khz from both of those devices. The volca doesn't sample directly but the es1 does and that's the rate it samples at. There's also the ability to slightly overdrive the input which can sound nice on some things ( but terrible on others ) But apart from the obvious aliasing type artifact and the reduced top end, transients sound a little different and if its a loop, it kinda meshes everything together in a nice cohesive way, kinda like a sonic glue. There are tails and bits of noise linking the separate sounds together where there weren't originally. Like a background texture rather than the original digital silence. If I chop it back into individual hits, it can be awkward to know where to actually place the slices because of it, but its a nice thing if subtle.
This sounds like a great idea, really want to try this. Might give this a go tonight once i've composed the rest of the track. I guess there's nothing stopping you doing it to a whole track but it might be too much.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by LV426 »

As others have said really!
The way I've done it is some bitcrush (the Mirage (Ensoniq Mirage based) preset in Ableton is pretty good, if a little too downsampled for my liking), slight saturation/overdrive to taste, and EQ to rolloff the crispy high end.

You should grab the Legowelt 909 pack if you haven't already – http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/25/legow ... m-machine/ – and analyse how he created the lo-fi sound on his hats.

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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Southpaw »

LV426 wrote:As others have said really!
The way I've done it is some bitcrush (the Mirage (Ensoniq Mirage based) preset in Ableton is pretty good, if a little too downsampled for my liking), slight saturation/overdrive to taste, and EQ to rolloff the crispy high end.

You should grab the Legowelt 909 pack if you haven't already – http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/25/legow ... m-machine/ – and analyse how he created the lo-fi sound on his hats.
I think he records to cassette for a lot of stuff, A Tascam 424 i think. It's a bit too much for me, everything would have to go through it for continuity. Couldn't have synths at full bandwidth and then cassette drums. Needs to be a global thing and it needs thought I reckon
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by msl »

I second the 707 suggestion, the original samples are just raw as fuck. And make any hat pattern just sound crunchy and classic. Sounds like a million house records. The 505 less so imo. Here are clean recordings of both that I made myself when I had them.

https://nofile.io/f/W4jvWf9upE6/707+505.zip


Other than that subtle processing afterwards, I like small amounts of saturation and distortion from D16 Decimort, Kush Transformers, PrimalTap, Decapitator, Indent, etc.
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Southpaw »

msl wrote:I second the 707 suggestion, the original samples are just raw as fuck. And make any hat pattern just sound crunchy and classic. Sounds like a million house records. The 505 less so imo. Here are clean recordings of both that I made myself when I had them.

https://nofile.io/f/W4jvWf9upE6/707+505.zip


Other than that subtle processing afterwards, I like small amounts of saturation and distortion from D16 Decimort, Kush Transformers, PrimalTap, Decapitator, Indent, etc.
No archives found.

Will try again

[EDIT] Ah, thanks for the samples, for some reason I thought they were a before/after thing. Need to wake up today :lol:
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Re: Tips on how to "lo-fi-ify" hi-hats?

Post by Plyphon »

msl wrote:I second the 707 suggestion, the original samples are just raw as fuck. And make any hat pattern just sound crunchy and classic. Sounds like a million house records. The 505 less so imo. Here are clean recordings of both that I made myself when I had them.

https://nofile.io/f/W4jvWf9upE6/707+505.zip


Other than that subtle processing afterwards, I like small amounts of saturation and distortion from D16 Decimort, Kush Transformers, PrimalTap, Decapitator, Indent, etc.

Lovely, thanks - looking forward to trying these out later!


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