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 Post subject: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:01 am 
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Rolf Harris
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I seem to remember that a few of you use these. So questions:

*Which one do you use
*How do you use it
*Would you recommend it


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:16 am 
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There's like 10 threads on this if you do a forum search.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:36 pm 
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I've been going through the older threads as I'm thinking of getting one of these but I also have a few questions since using the free CM version of Satson...

Do you guys use them in 'normal' mode or with the output compensation engaged? The free version doesn't have the output compensation option and when I set the gain to be hitting 0db on Satson's VU meter cubase shows that I'm peaking at somewhere around -6dbfs with drums. Other non percussive instruments still peak in Cubase at more than -18dbfs with was something of a surprise to me, I know VU meters work on an average but was just wondering what was happening here..?.. I could always set my peak level in Cubase to -18dbfs like a would usually do and engage output compensation to use Satson's gain as a saturation, this wouldn't be a problem.

Secondly, how do you use the saturation? Would you aim for 0db on Satson with all instruments and then just push a few prominent instruments (kick, snare, bass, for example) a bit further just to fatten them up a bit? Would you do the opposite if using a separate saturation plugin further down the chain? I guess this is a request for some general advice on saturation. I realise there are probably 50 billion ways to approach this but this is something I've been working on lately and I'm beginning to get better but think I may be going overboard and squashing the dynamics too much...that said, I'm still a relative noob and still developing my ears so I don't yet fully trust what I think I'm hearing.

Also... Satson has 6 and 12db/oct low pass filter. Britson only has 6db/oct LPF but does have 3 output modes/styles on the bus output. Which would you say is the most useful to you? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:09 pm 
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I've had the same problem with clipping, what's happening is that fast transients don't show on the meter. So it's fine if you don't hit 0db on the VU meter and peak around like -8 on the VU or something. You don't NEED to use it for gainstaging but it helps keep coherent gainstaging without much effort, although i'm personally a bit lazy with that sometimes.

Satson sounds alright when pushed, personally my mixes sound more dynamic when I don't overdo it and stay around 0db VU, especially on the bus plugins, though. Satson is supposed to be subtle, if you want heavy colouring use something like SDRR. I like the HPF on Satson a lot, it's very nice and gentle and helps shoving off some of the subs and lows without going overboard. I like that it's not parametric, your mixes will sound fuller if you just take a bit of lowend out with the HPF instead of going wild with EQ8 or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Rolf Harris
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dubdub wrote:
There's like 10 threads on this if you do a forum search.


Yeah but it's easier to just ask the questions than spend ages going through those and not find the exact information I'm looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Rolf Harris
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dippy egg wrote:
I've been going through the older threads as I'm thinking of getting one of these but I also have a few questions since using the free CM version of Satson...

Do you guys use them in 'normal' mode or with the output compensation engaged? The free version doesn't have the output compensation option and when I set the gain to be hitting 0db on Satson's VU meter cubase shows that I'm peaking at somewhere around -6dbfs with drums. Other non percussive instruments still peak in Cubase at more than -18dbfs with was something of a surprise to me, I know VU meters work on an average but was just wondering what was happening here..?.. I could always set my peak level in Cubase to -18dbfs like a would usually do and engage output compensation to use Satson's gain as a saturation, this wouldn't be a problem.

Secondly, how do you use the saturation? Would you aim for 0db on Satson with all instruments and then just push a few prominent instruments (kick, snare, bass, for example) a bit further just to fatten them up a bit? Would you do the opposite if using a separate saturation plugin further down the chain? I guess this is a request for some general advice on saturation. I realise there are probably 50 billion ways to approach this but this is something I've been working on lately and I'm beginning to get better but think I may be going overboard and squashing the dynamics too much...that said, I'm still a relative noob and still developing my ears so I don't yet fully trust what I think I'm hearing.

Also... Satson has 6 and 12db/oct low pass filter. Britson only has 6db/oct LPF but does have 3 output modes/styles on the bus output. Which would you say is the most useful to you? :)


Good questions. Look forward to hearing people's answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Ok so clipping.
Well Satson and Britson, will both indicate clipping with a clipping light. So some sounds with very large transients might well cause clipping when you bring them to 0db in the vu, if you see the clip light come on, back off the level (or you can use level compensation).
If you were tracking in a real studio, say recording drums, you would deal with this problem by tracking through a compressor, before you go in to the desk, quite common with vocals too. So this would be a rare case to put a plugin before the satson\britson and use a compressor to take transients and round them off.

I don't use the saturation that much, I use the fat switch on some sounds and maybe allow +1-3 dB on the meter. But generally I just have the thing on all channels and let it add up.

I prefer Satson (I like having the 2 different curves for the hi pass, which I use a lot) but use Britson when doing heavy metal as it adds a nice subtle grit.

1 on every channel, 1 (buss plugin) on every buss and group and send, and one on the master.

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:12 pm 
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I don't think I'm using this properly at all

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Rolf Harris
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Ok so clipping.
Well Satson and Britson, will both indicate clipping with a clipping light. So some sounds with very large transients might well cause clipping when you bring them to 0db in the vu, if you see the clip light come on, back off the level (or you can use level compensation).
If you were tracking in a real studio, say recording drums, you would deal with this problem by tracking through a compressor, before you go in to the desk, quite common with vocals too. So this would be a rare case to put a plugin before the satson\britson and use a compressor to take transients and round them off.

I don't use the saturation that much, I use the fat switch on some sounds and maybe allow +1-3 dB on the meter. But generally I just have the thing on all channels and let it add up.

I prefer Satson (I like having the 2 different curves for the hi pass, which I use a lot) but use Britson when doing heavy metal as it adds a nice subtle grit.

1 on every channel, 1 (buss plugin) on every buss and group and send, and one on the master.


Thanks, Steve. This has pretty much sold me.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:10 pm 
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fake

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:23 am
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Yeah, thanks man! Just another quick question... Does the crosstalk voodoo thing happen in the bus plug? Just thinking about bouncing tracks to audio with Satson on the channel then putting Satson on the newly bounced audio, potentially several times over. Will weird things start to happen if its going through more than one instance of the Satson channel. I don't have the quickest CPU so do render down quite a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:59 pm 
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I've found myself using Britson less and less over the last year. I think it helps to instil good habits with gain staging etc, but I often find myself bypassing it and not really missing the subtle difference to the audio. I don't really use the filtering though.

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:06 am 
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Oh I could never stop using it now. The front to back depth you get, the way transients are gently rounded, that subtle harmonic lustre, it adds just enough mojo for the final edge for a nice deep mix, I'd had to go back to using a big deal (bleargh) or multitrack tape to get the sound back if I abandoned it, or at least some kind of console emulation.

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:38 am 
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I use Satson. In addition to the lovely desk emulation stuff it does, I really enjoy the sound of the HPF - very musical and pleasing to my ear


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:59 pm 
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It is incredibly smooth and transparent.

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:31 am 
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Rolf Harris
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Well, I bit the bullet and got Satson. Haven't quite figured out what to do with the Buss module, but Satson channel sounds lovely. Very subtle effect, but noticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:47 am 
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For me the buss module, other than adding a bit of audio voodoo helps with that eternal question of "should i turn up the drum parts going into the drum bus, or turn up the drum bus". Now i just mix all the drum parts so the drum bus is hitting 0VU. Removes that ambiguity for me. Like wise the master channel. I always mix everything too low then have to try and correct it at the end, this forces me to be a bit more pro active in that department.

(this was at least my interpretation from the instructions anyway. so hope i'm doing it right)

There's also definitely some magical vibes you get once all your tracks are going through the satson. Combination of the subtle enchancement + correct gain i suspect.


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:12 pm 
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The_G wrote:
Well, I bit the bullet and got Satson. Haven't quite figured out what to do with the Buss module, but Satson channel sounds lovely. Very subtle effect, but noticeable.



Buss module goes on every buss.
Master buss, any group buss, sends.
I turn off the crosstalk except on the master buss, where I also turn on the loudness setting.

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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:52 am 
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Rolf Harris
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Okay...

I've got Satson channel on every channel and all the VU meters are just at 0. I put Satson Buss on my busses and did nothing with them, but turned crosstalk off. I put Satson Buss on my master channel, and turned crosstalk on (and set to vintage). Some questions:

*I haven't messed with any groups, because frankly I don't have any idea what the hell that does!
*The VU meter on the master is peaking beyond 0 VU, but I'm not sure how to fix that...through the individual Satson channels?
*When you say turn on the loudness setting, do you mean the fat switch on the front or the "loud process" option on the back panel?


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:07 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
The_G wrote:
Well, I bit the bullet and got Satson. Haven't quite figured out what to do with the Buss module, but Satson channel sounds lovely. Very subtle effect, but noticeable.



Buss module goes on every buss.
Master buss, any group buss, sends.
I turn off the crosstalk except on the master buss, where I also turn on the loudness setting.


Why do you turn crosstalk off?


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 Post subject: Re: Satson/Britson
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 pm 
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The_G wrote:
Okay...

I've got Satson channel on every channel and all the VU meters are just at 0. I put Satson Buss on my busses and did nothing with them, but turned crosstalk off. I put Satson Buss on my master channel, and turned crosstalk on (and set to vintage). Some questions:

*I haven't messed with any groups, because frankly I don't have any idea what the hell that does!
*The VU meter on the master is peaking beyond 0 VU, but I'm not sure how to fix that...through the individual Satson channels?
*When you say turn on the loudness setting, do you mean the fat switch on the front or the "loud process" option on the back panel?


Loud process, it works nicely on the master.
I don't use the group's but it can be handy to control all plugs from one ie gain or fat or whatever. I've never found the need for it.
The reason I turn off crosstalk on all but the master buss is I think it overdoes the effect and can lead to overly dense mixes.

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