Satson/Britson

[Jesse]

I bought Satson a few months back and after spending a bit of time figuring out what it's about, I added it to my master chain and track defaults in Live 10. Then at some point I noticed I was getting a lot of short random audio dropouts, regardless of how high my buffer size was set. After spending a bunch of time going trial and error to try and find the cause, it turned out to be Satson. I removed it and haven't had any issues since, even with very low buffer sizes.

Anyone else had similar issues with this plugin?

Took the plunge and bought it. Have been getting this problem quite a bit when using the grouping function. Huge spikes and audio dropouts despite not being close to maxing out the computer, even with different buffer sizes. From what I gather, the grouping function just allows the Buss (with grouping on ) to control the other Satson instances from one page. Is there a downside to not using grouping function on the master buss instance? It seems it wouldn't matter, and I hope it does't, because the plugin does wonders on the master. Okay, don't want to exaggerate, but it does give it a nice sound with fat and crosstalk on the master.

[Belka]

Any processor on the master quadruples^2222222 the CPU usage. Read something about on gearsluts in the Ryzen Sub. My Limitless, SDC, SPAN, bx_control and Satson on the Master fucks my projects too, especially if you have a few Repro5 Poly Tracks with 10mile longfx/eq/comp chain.

[Lost to the Void]

I have literally never used the grouping options in the bus plugins.

[Lost to the Void]

Any processor on the master quadruples^2222222 the CPU usage. Read something about on gearsluts in the Ryzen Sub. My Limitless, SDC, SPAN, bx_control and Satson on the Master fucks my projects too, especially if you have a few Repro5 Poly Tracks with 10mile longfx/eq/comp chain.

Dafuck are you running limitless on the master bus?

[Jesse]

I have literally never used the grouping options in the bus plugins.

Alright cool. Figured it was just a way to control volume and other options via one interface and didn't interfere with anything else as there isn't audio routing going on; just double checkin'. Agree with post you made in this thread few years back. Can't see myself not using it now. SDRR while not bad by any means on desk mode, this plugin has the edge. Was sort of surprised at how well it gives the mix a sense of space and depth. So far crosstalk and loud process seems to make every mix sound better. Thoroughly impressed.

[Lost to the Void]

SDRR is good, but in desk terms it's better for console abuse than nice console sound.

I have other console emulations, but personally for me I find Satson and Britson has a great meeting of quality of sound and simplicity.

Most importantly I know the sound. I've been using it for years. If you swap plugins all the time, you never really learn your sound and never get to really fine tune it to excellence.

[Oktagon]

Took the plunge and bought it. Have been getting this problem quite a bit when using the grouping function. Huge spikes and audio dropouts despite not being close to maxing out the computer, even with different buffer sizes.

Thanks for the tip! Tried turning off the grouping function and no dropouts so far.

[Cirklonian]

I got Satson Channel Strip and it’s one of my absolute favorite plugins. I also have Waves SSL G and never use the channel strip plugin anymore. Can’t recommend Satson CS enough.

Yeah the Waves SSL G doesn't do it for me either. What I use and love the is the Brainworx SSL E. That's basically my mix session plus send effects and I have the Brainworx Townhouse compressor on the mixbus. Waited patiently until they had their regular massive sale on each. Totally worth it for me. The BX Eq and compressor are very forgiving and workflow is warp speed once you spend some time with them.

Nice alternative to look at from the Britson. I'd try that one too, but I kind of just want to stay with what I am used to now.

[speen]

I'm probably missing something, but I can't figure out how to get the grouping functions to show on Satson.

I am new to this and want to use it to turn of multiple instances at once so i can hear the effect easily and get used to it. I have added a few channel inserts to group 1 and turned on 'grouping' but it does not show the group menu.

wtf am i missing here.. ?

It's annoying enough to write this post on early christmas morning

edit:
complaining was enough, it suddenly appeared
merry christmas guys..

[mervv]

I used Satson after seeing it recommended so often on here and I've been really happy with it.

I use it at the stage where I'm transitioning from sound design to mixing. The boundary is a bit blurry sometimes, but basically when I'm done with big reverbs, filter automation, distortion or anything else ostentatious, but before starting to clean up and situate everything together. Set all faders to unity, put an instance on each channel, adjust the big ole knob until I'm hitting around 0 on each VU (more or less to taste) and then rebalance the faders.

I might be too daft/lack the monitoring/lack the knowledge to identify exactly what it does to the sound, but my gut says it sounds nice and it's made a very noticeable difference in the quality of my mix balance (whether that's because of satson or the step it makes me introduce in the process idk)

I'm glad I have it.

[borg]

For me the main benefit is having more headroom through the discipline of gain staging. Also, some plugins trying to model analogue devices, including the behavior of hitting it hard or soft, might not work as intended when not feeding it correct levels. This isn't an issue with most plugins though.
I have the reflex now to load an instance on every new track from the start.
I did a small test once: adding 10dB in an audio file, or adding 10dB in Satson Channel gave absolute silence when phase reversed against each other. Which doesn't mean there's nothing going on, especially when track count grows, maybe? But they say it's subtle . I use the bus plugins, but not the grouping function, so haven't done a proper A/B-test, and honestly, I'm not the guy who spends an entire weekend checking all airwindows console versions (which is all about the subtle things of audio). Luckily there are such people, and so I've learnt that each version reacts differently to how hot your signals are. When, as in our case, aiming for 0vu, Console6 will have a more noticeable effect than 5, as it starts reacting sooner. Adding to that, as that track count grows, the effect becomes more obvious. Even more, the Airwindows console takes into account the little fluctuations in the way channels hit the master bus as in an analogue desk, which digital summing engines of a DAW or Satson, don't, I guess.

For delicate music, this might all be interesting, a final 0,5% of finesse, but for some pounding techno, the gain staging bit will do for me. I try to find the mojo somewhere else.

[Lost to the Void]

, which digital summing engines of a DAW or Satson, don't, I guess.

That is literally what Satson does.
It's behaviour is input dynamic.
It's why I use it.

[borg]

hence the "I guess"... Maybe it's because my typical track count is between 6 and 12, with 2-3 busses and 1 on the master, and use it purely as gain staging tool, that I don't hear added character (of course there is when using the saturation modes).
Are you referring to crosstalk? The Satson manual is not helping here. It just mentions its existence without a single word of explanation how it is implemented. Crosstalk in summing plugins is a discussion on it's own. Anyway the Airwindows Console claims to work differently than other contraptions.
Maybe it's time to do some more reading and investigate the mojo part of Satson a bit more... I should get back to manuals more often. It took a few weeks before I realized it's ok to have hats as low as -20vu, and not everything is supposed to hover around 0. Missed that part of the manual when I started using the whole gain staging thing. Hats and claps at 0vu sounded very confusing. Odd enough to get back to the manual to check on things.

[tunez]

hence the "I guess"... Maybe it's because my typical track count is between 6 and 12, with 2-3 busses and 1 on the master, and use it purely as gain staging tool, that I don't hear added character (of course there is when using the saturation modes).
Are you referring to crosstalk? The Satson manual is not helping here. It just mentions its existence without a single word of explanation how it is implemented. Crosstalk in summing plugins is a discussion on it's own. Anyway the Airwindows Console claims to work differently than other contraptions.
Maybe it's time to do some more reading and investigate the mojo part of Satson a bit more... I should get back to manuals more often. It took a few weeks before I realized it's ok to have hats as low as -20vu, and not everything is supposed to hover around 0. Missed that part of the manual when I started using the whole gain staging thing. Hats and claps at 0vu sounded very confusing. Odd enough to get back to the manual to check on things.

You can always bounce and phase invert to see the differences processed vs unprocessed for ear-training.Crosstalk should impact the stereo image of the sound depending on what it does to the phase I believe. A-B and pay attention to the width in stereo. Yeah, Vu is average level so overly transient sounds will not register as well and using Satson for gain staging shouldn't be different from general gain staging.Only thing different is if you drive it more you will get a different result then just higher level.

[tunez]

For me the main benefit is having more headroom through the discipline of gain staging. Also, some plugins trying to model analogue devices, including the behavior of hitting it hard or soft, might not work as intended when not feeding it correct levels. This isn't an issue with most plugins though.
I have the reflex now to load an instance on every new track from the start.
I did a small test once: adding 10dB in an audio file, or adding 10dB in Satson Channel gave absolute silence when phase reversed against each other. Which doesn't mean there's nothing going on, especially when track count grows, maybe? But they say it's subtle . I use the bus plugins, but not the grouping function, so haven't done a proper A/B-test, and honestly, I'm not the guy who spends an entire weekend checking all airwindows console versions (which is all about the subtle things of audio). Luckily there are such people, and so I've learnt that each version reacts differently to how hot your signals are. When, as in our case, aiming for 0vu, Console6 will have a more noticeable effect than 5, as it starts reacting sooner. Adding to that, as that track count grows, the effect becomes more obvious. Even more, the Airwindows console takes into account the little fluctuations in the way channels hit the master bus as in an analogue desk, which digital summing engines of a DAW or Satson, don't, I guess.

For delicate music, this might all be interesting, a final 0,5% of finesse, but for some pounding techno, the gain staging bit will do for me. I try to find the mojo somewhere else.

Skipped this post for some reason. See you already phase inverted and saw no difference.I have to try this now.

[borg]

Well, I wasn't too scientific about it, and just one channel (without saturation), but remember finding it remarkable it absolutely nulled. I just did some more quick random tests, and results seem to vary. For single sounds/channels there's just a very very tiny spike coming through. Using a full drum loop, the resulting audio clearly shows more activity. Ah, so many variables, always so many things to learn...

Great, going into a new year doing gain stage plug tests! I heard the couple that designed the BioNTech vaccine spent their wedding day in the lab, not that I wish to compare myself to these remarkable minds...

All the best for episode 2021!

[tunez]

Well, I wasn't too scientific about it, and just one channel (without saturation), but remember finding it remarkable it absolutely nulled. I just did some more quick random tests, and results seem to vary. For single sounds/channels there's just a very very tiny spike coming through. Using a full drum loop, the resulting audio clearly shows more activity. Ah, so many variables, always so many things to learn...

Great, going into a new year doing gain stage plug tests! I heard the couple that designed the BioNTech vaccine spent their wedding day in the lab, not that I wish to compare myself to these remarkable minds...

All the best for episode 2021!

I tried on a sine wav and got audible difference. Very low in volume though like you saw. It's always good to know what your plugins are doing . I am curious how this compares to other console emulation since I haven't tried any.

[Lost to the Void]

Plug in doctor is your friend
https://ddmf.eu/plugindoctor/

[tunez]

Plug in doctor is your friend
https://ddmf.eu/plugindoctor/

That seems useful.I will have to check it out. Have you tried their compressor the MagicDeathEye? I read some good reviews on it. I haven't gotten around to demoing it though.

[borg]

Nice, thanks! Saw people mentioning analyzer software when reading up on the matter, but it sounded more like developer material. I'm not feeling the music lately, a good time to catch up on things.