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Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:39 am
by psicomagia
WOLF! wrote:This could be a nice topic addition if you want to know more about compressors.

VCA, Opto, Vari-Mu, FET compressors… When to use which?

http://quantum-music.ca/wordpress/index.php/2015/07/29/
thanks man, really nice article!

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:19 pm
by CRDM
Just wanted to say thanks again for such a good explanation.

I hadn't dug MJUC out for while but have done a load of messing around with it and have new love for it.

It depends on the track but generally I'm compressingonly a tiny amount on the master, like 0.5-1db ish, sometimes more. I've been really enjoying the mk3 model best for the master buss. That with the i-stage turned on it can be used as a really nice tone shaper with minimal compression, using the timbre dial and sometimes the saturation if it calls for it. It can really add an sense of openness used in this context.

On the drums when I have used it, which is a bit less frequently I've been loving the mk1, it has a lot of vibe. Haven't used the mk2 model so much so will dig deeper into that one.

MJUC and SDRR2 together is a really great combo.

Look forward to part 3 when you got the time for it Void!

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:22 pm
by slowpilgrim
sorry if this has already been mentioned somewhere but I couldn't find anything~

to understand how this fits within the overall mixing/mastering process, does the 'rhythmic' compressor used here replace the first compressor used in the mastering guide? or once you've mixed into it, do you print what you've got and then apply the 2 mastering compressors afterwards as a separate process?

From the mastering guide -

"So the idea is you use one compressor to capture rapid peaks and control them, you then use another compressor to control overall changes in the body of the music, which will act more slowly and gently."

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:32 pm
by Lost to the Void
if you were a mastering engineer then the answer would be, it depends if the track needs it to get the result required.

In home maximisation terms, I would say nope. If you are mixing in to the compressor, then don`t then stick another 2 compressors over it when maximising the final level after rendering the mix. 1 compressor to capture peaks and then a limiter would be fine.
The music will be more controlled already having been mixed in to a compressor.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:28 pm
by slowpilgrim
awesome, thanks Void

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:29 pm
by Hazium
Dropping in to say thanks for this post Void. This has been the missing link in my productions over the years. I almost feel silly for not knowing about it sooner.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:17 pm
by Trom
Thanks a lot for sharing this, both the method and explanation about compression! Just returned to the forum after a while away as I felt I needed some more basic knowledge to better take in some of the information on here. Stumbled over this thread first and as many others have written its a immediate game changer! Something my tracks sorely needed

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:44 am
by Finesse
Another form of Mix Buss Compression is to put on a Tape Bus plugin such as my personal favourite the ToneBoosters ReelBus. It just adds that tapey warmth and brings the low end up a bit. I have been mixing into the Cytomic Glue (same as Ableton Glue Comp but a little more options) for awhile now and its a great SSL emulation. For those of you that are just starting out and learning how to use the compressor, the trick is not to have the compressor work too hard reducing gain more than 3-4dB on the extreme side. It is generally better to run compressors in series if you need more compression. It obviously depends on the sound you're going for too. Compressors that have Mix knobs allow you to achieve the NY Compression technique as well so you can dial in more extreme settings then use the mix knob to blend the signals although I keep my mix knob on the Glue at 50%. I suggest to err on the side of subtlety when mixing into a compressor though as too much compression from the gitgo may give you a false sense of balance of the mix. Thanks for the time spent on the tutorial though, it is very important for the beginners to learn compressors properly as it is very easy to over compress!

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:08 pm
by over9000
i think i finally "got" how to use this. at least a bit.
i can hear it now, its a subtle difference, but it gives a groove much more tightness.
thx very much for pointing this out.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:59 pm
by s7ntax
I tried this today on a dub techno track I've been working on and I think I overdid it, the resulting mix was really pumping and when the kick was taken out on breaks the rest of the track got noticeably louder, then back to that sidechanined pumping effect when the kick came back in. Maybe it wasn't a good track to try on as it has a lot of paddy sounds in it. Will definitely try it out on some other tracks but I'm guessing subtlety is the key here with this effect. More subliminal rather than obvious and noticeable.

Thanks for all your quality posts Void. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us :)

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:10 pm
by Lost to the Void
s7ntax wrote:I tried this today on a dub techno track I've been working on and I think I overdid it, the resulting mix was really pumping and when the kick was taken out on breaks the rest of the track got noticeably louder, then back to that sidechanined pumping effect when the kick came back in. Maybe it wasn't a good track to try on as it has a lot of paddy sounds in it. Will definitely try it out on some other tracks but I'm guessing subtlety is the key here with this effect. More subliminal rather than obvious and noticeable.

Thanks for all your quality posts Void. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us :)
Just sounds like you overdid it, there really isn`t any type of dance music that this can`t be applied too.
If it pumps too much then reduce the amount of gain reduction and/or adjust the sidechain EQ on the detector to stop it reacting so much to the lows

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:07 am
by s7ntax
Think I've nailed it this time. Sounding nice with this track, still a slight noticeable rise when the kick cuts out, is this normal? Sort of like I've sidechained the whole mix to the kick. I've only got slight movement on the meter, around 0.7 db. It does sound nice though and also seems to allow this really low end kick to punch through the mix better even though it's got a fairly soft transient on the attack of my kick, it just seems to give it a little more space.

I'm going to give your mastering tutorial a go with this track, do you think I should be more severe with this mix bus compression though first as I'm guessing 2 layers of compression and a limiter when mastering may pull the mix up to the point that this effect will no longer be noticeable. Just how I seem to understand how it all works in my head but I'm no expert.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 pm
by dubdub
Kinda randomly thought about this yesterday but I never really use the density and Istage functions with MJUC. Do you use them when using MJUC on the master? If yes, in what kind of situations?

Also, in what kind of situations would you use Mode MK1 over Mode MK2? If you want the comp to act more program dependent? I've only ever used Mk2.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:30 am
by over9000
yeah same here dub.
would be cool if someone could explain what the density and Istage really do, heres what i found in the handbook:

Density:
Enables a second
variable mu tube
stage, which leads to
denser compression
characteristics.
cant really hear the difference here :(

Istage:
Enables the interstage
transformer, which
separates the gain
reduction stage from
the fnal gain stage.
Alters the tone and
character of the
compression, helps to
reduce overall noise of
the unit. Leads to
cleaner and clearer
compression characteristics
i guess this would not be what you want on the master as the noise and "dirt" glues it together??

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:50 pm
by Lost to the Void
s7ntax wrote:Think I've nailed it this time. Sounding nice with this track, still a slight noticeable rise when the kick cuts out, is this normal? Sort of like I've sidechained the whole mix to the kick. I've only got slight movement on the meter, around 0.7 db. It does sound nice though and also seems to allow this really low end kick to punch through the mix better even though it's got a fairly soft transient on the attack of my kick, it just seems to give it a little more space.

I'm going to give your mastering tutorial a go with this track, do you think I should be more severe with this mix bus compression though first as I'm guessing 2 layers of compression and a limiter when mastering may pull the mix up to the point that this effect will no longer be noticeable. Just how I seem to understand how it all works in my head but I'm no expert.
If you are still getting rises without the kick then just move the sidechain higher, and perhaps readdress the attack phase of the compression (slow it down a touch) and possibly make the release faster (as the release may not be fully out before the next kick).
It`s a matter of fine tuning and experience with it, you WILL get there in the end, and eventually you will be dialing in perfect settings very quickly.
If you are using the MJUC for doing this, it might be worth flipping type from type 2, to 3 or visa versa.

IF you are going on to home maximise after this, you probably won`t need 2 compressors in your chain, possibly just one reacting very quickly to cleanly chop back the peaks.

You should, if you are doing things properly have your mixes at around -12 RMS with peaks hitting -3 or -2.
So maximising after this should be fairly easy.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:56 pm
by Lost to the Void
dubdub wrote:Kinda randomly thought about this yesterday but I never really use the density and Istage functions with MJUC. Do you use them when using MJUC on the master? If yes, in what kind of situations?

Also, in what kind of situations would you use Mode MK1 over Mode MK2? If you want the comp to act more program dependent? I've only ever used Mk2.
Istage definitely, as it maintains low end integrity better, the low end won`t break up as much, especially with higher sat/drive settings
Density no, it thickens things up too much on the 2 buss and makes the mix claggy.

Think of the density switch like a range knob. Essentially you get a harder squeeze.

I would say, in terms of the mix bus and which mode it really depends on the tune.

Mode 1 is close to operating like a fairchild, so if your mix is messy it might not be able to react nicely.
If you mix is tuned up then it can be very pleasing, timing set on v5 with give great musical results on the 2 buss.
I use Mode 1 quite a lot with my own music, as it works nicely with my loose broken beats.

The other modes have more control but also their own quirks, especially how the ratio changes the mu behaviour, v2 and v3 move quite differently in this respect.

It really is a case of experiment and learn. Getting to know your compressor intimately is important if you want to get the best results.

The sidechain setting is as important as the attack release setting.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:14 pm
by dubdub
Cheers, I've been using v2 on the master for a while now. I can get it dialed into get a fitting sound generally, although I don't think I get how it really works, especially with the vari-mu stuff. Will give a v1 a shot on some tunes.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:42 pm
by psicomagia
Lost to the Void wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:56 pm

Mode 1 is close to operating like a fairchild, so if your mix is messy it might not be able to react nicely.
If you mix is tuned up then it can be very pleasing, timing set on v5 with give great musical results on the 2 buss.
I use Mode 1 quite a lot with my own music, as it works nicely with my loose broken beats.
I've been using the Mk1 mode with the timing set to 5 aswell a lot. It's been working nicely also with non-electronic music.

Never bonded so well with a compressor like with the MJUC.


I've got a question though in terms of application: Is there anything I should look for when deciding where to tune my movement compressor on the 2buss? I mean, with the sidechain filter you can easily choose between the kick and the bass. Personally I've doing what sounds best to my ears case by case, but somehow I have this feeling that I'm lacking a better understanding, or even just confidence to choose one over another (whether to tune the comp to the kick or the bass).

With non-electronic music I've been usually tuning the comp to the bass, not 100% confident but it is what's usually sounding better to my ears. A little off-topic but: In this case should I aim for less than 2db / 3db of GR(which is usually what I aim with techno)?

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:40 pm
by Lost to the Void
Don't think there are many situations where I would set my buss compression to react to the bass unless it is literally the main rhythmic drive and is also quite attack-ey in transient terms.
Otherwise the movement will just be too slow.

With the way MJUC works, well with any compressor, you have to go by ear. I find more than 2db of master buss compression becomes too noticeable with it.
I tend to stick to around 1db.

Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:41 pm
by Mslwte
I've been using quite extreme settings on my master recently and I'm really enjoying the results. Maybe it's working because of the sort of music I've been making lately, but Im happy with the results. Heavily distorted broken beats etc that are really pumping. But I've been dialing it in by ear mostly.