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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Snauth
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Kromasome wrote:
Lost to the Void wrote:
mix bus is another name for master channel also can be called the 2bus


Thanks. Feeling even more embarrassed now :oops: (but just wanted to check I wasn't doing anything fundamentally wrong)


I should be more consistent with my language when writing tutorials.
But I like to write as I speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:17 pm 
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intrusav wrote:
You could ask worse questions like "Should I wear a mask while I'm practicing my new set or should I hold out until the main event?"

I've been using ableton's stock compressor on my master up until now, shows how sensitive my ears are! Learning stuff all the time... Will check that comp Void mentions and compare the difference. Actually never compared it to the glue comp so that's prob worth checking out first. Never really focused too much on the master channel, apart from checking levels or playing around with a final eq for shits and giggles ..

Btw Steve, is there some way of seeing how these compare (on the same material) or is it just a matter of playing around to see which one gives the best results? Prob answered my own question there, but I assume the idea is to keep it subtle.


Best results is a very subjective thing.
Glue comp is based on SSL bus compression and it does a good job of gluing a mix. I used to use it but was never 100% happy.
I will be listing other great compressors for this. I bought MJUC based on the quality of other klanghelm stuff not knowing what to expect, and once I learned it I realised just how good it is, it really acts like a real expensive mojo compressor.
So glue comp is fine, but the movement is not that interesting.
MJUC really moves the sound in a more interesting way. Rather than pushing the sound down on gain reduction, it feels more like it is pulling it back. It feels more like movement than dynamic effect. That's why I cite it in my demo.

Part 3 will give a broader list.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Thanks a lot for this guide, seriously. I've been learning a lot from reading posts all over the board, but your posts always hit the exact point to improve my actual understanding of these techniques.

I've already started to understand the concept and the effects of compressing the mix bus from an older sticky post you wrote (which improved my tracks dynamics a lot), but right now this guide just reached another level of clicking in the head. Simply understanding how compressors work and the different types of compression will get you somewhere, but tweaking by yourself to get a desired effect sometimes can be painful when there's no other source or someone to reach for this kind of information. This probably saved me a lot of time of researching and trying to find out what's wrong with my tracks (or my ears) or crossing different information from different posts.

I see that there's a number of different techniques involved to get a track sound the way you want, but compression in the mix bus - done correctly - just made everything sound way more musical instead of lifeless/plain/dull.

Also producing from the get go with a compressor in the mix bus was something I truly believed wasn't a good practice from stuff I read here. I was clearly misunderstood.

I have a question regarding how this technique would work on a live set with bpm changes. Is it a good idea to setup different compressors to go along with the different bpm's along the set?


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:51 am 
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psicomagia wrote:
Also producing from the get go with a compressor in the mix bus was something I truly believed wasn't a good practice from stuff I read here. I was clearly misunderstood.


Me too. But what I think Steve is saying is that it will actually help your tracks if set properly as opposed to just slapping a compressor on and hoping for the best (unlikely to end well). I'd say this is why the general advice in the past has always been to not use one on the master/mix bus.

Feel free to correct me on this, but that is one of the many things that I've taken out of this extremely useful thread/guide so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:55 am 
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Kromasome wrote:
psicomagia wrote:
Also producing from the get go with a compressor in the mix bus was something I truly believed wasn't a good practice from stuff I read here. I was clearly misunderstood.


Me too. But what I think Steve is saying is that it will actually help your tracks if set properly as opposed to just slapping a compressor on and hoping for the best (unlikely to end well). I'd say this is why the general advice in the past has always been to not use one on the master/mix bus.

Feel free to correct me on this, but that is one of the many things that I've taken out of this extremely useful thread/guide so far.


Yeah, I understood that you should tune the comp to the loudest element, in this case the kick in relation to the bpm of the track. I think these process details are handy as hell when you're struggling to use a tool to reach a desire effect on a track.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:57 am 
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Thanks for this guide, never really did anything to the stereo bus.. time to try it i guess!
You think the Pro-C2 could also work as bus compressor in maybe opto mode? Recently got it but only tried it as bus compressor.. my go to bus compressors are the Slate FG-Grey & FG-MU so far.. not sure if I need another one, but the MJUC sure looks like a no brainer for that price.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:42 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Dial the ratio to around mid way (roughly between 2 and 4 to 1).


I'm probably missing something really obvious - but with MJUC, it seems like there's no sliding scale for ratio, it's just a case of 2:1 or 4:1 (and that's only visible on the MkII interface, as far as I can make out) - but I've not had the plugin long, so might be wrong on this.

Have I got that right? Or is there a control somewhere I've missed?

And any advice on which Mk of MJUC you guys prefer and why?


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:46 am 
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Quote:
And any advice on which Mk of MJUC you guys prefer and why?


It's in Steve's first post...

Quote:
With the MJUC I recommend you start with the Mk2 setting as it is a good middle ground between the mk1 (very program dependent, fairchild like) and the mk3 (less program dependent, much more reliant on your attack and release control, a very modern comp), as it is a great place to start. And the example ableton project I include is using this comp on the mk2 mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:59 am 
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D'uh, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Thank you for posting this guide and the others. I've been referring to your guide of how to 'home master' your tunes for a while, trying to teach myself how to use compression and eq effectively and it has proven the simplest to understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:05 pm 
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Any particular reason you did a +2db boost at 100hz on those kicks? Thought boosting was the devil's cabbage. No but seriously, just wondering about the thought-process on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Kromasome wrote:
psicomagia wrote:
Also producing from the get go with a compressor in the mix bus was something I truly believed wasn't a good practice from stuff I read here. I was clearly misunderstood.


Me too. But what I think Steve is saying is that it will actually help your tracks if set properly as opposed to just slapping a compressor on and hoping for the best (unlikely to end well). I'd say this is why the general advice in the past has always been to not use one on the master/mix bus.

Feel free to correct me on this, but that is one of the many things that I've taken out of this extremely useful thread/guide so far.


Yes, I think you get where I am at with this.


Well the thing is, if you don't know what you are doing it can ruin your mix. But it is vital enough to your sound that I think there needs to be good info on how to do it properly.
This tutorial isn't intended for beginners, you need to have your shit down to work this properly.
Once you start mixing in to a compressor, if your mix balancing technique is not so good then this will really show it up.
You need to be really on point with your subtractive eq and you sound choices and placement. This will force you to get your mixes better because a bad mix won't compress well.

This is why in general mastering engineers tell you to remove stuff (though it's mostly about loudening and peak crushing we are worried about) as it can go wrong.

Practice with a compressor on every mix and it soon becomes second nature. Don't overdo it, really make sure you read through the tutorial properly (at least one person hasn't judging by some questions already asked) and you should be ok.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Senko wrote:
Any particular reason you did a +2db boost at 100hz on those kicks? Thought boosting was the devil's cabbage. No but seriously, just wondering about the thought-process on that.


To push the harmonics at around 100hz. Normally I would use a more character EQ for this but for this example I wanted to use native plugins.
I don't boost often, but if I do I generally do it on kicks as the overdrive you get can be pleasing on kicks, and forcing out harmonics can work nicely sometimes, as long as you make room.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:37 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
Senko wrote:
Any particular reason you did a +2db boost at 100hz on those kicks? Thought boosting was the devil's cabbage. No but seriously, just wondering about the thought-process on that.


To push the harmonics at around 100hz. Normally I would use a more character EQ for this but for this example I wanted to use native plugins.
I don't boost often, but if I do I generally do it on kicks as the overdrive you get can be pleasing on kicks, and forcing out harmonics can work nicely sometimes, as long as you make room.


Just out of curiosity, which eq plugin would you use for this 100hz boost? I was too intrigued when i saw these little eq tricks, this and minor low shelf adjustment.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:06 am 
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I had a go at following the guide last night (just using glue compressor - will hopefully get the Klanghelm soon) and was interesting to hear the results - subtle, but definite improvement (to my ears).

I haven't tried the template yet, but sounds like it's well worth a look.

Still got a long way to go in terms of getting the mix balance right too, but I think this gives me some hope that I am working towards a better sound overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:27 am 
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I tried this yesterday, with the U-He presswerk though, and it really works. For me it was new to have compression on the master buss from the beginning of the track. Always did this when the track was finished. Thanks for the tip!


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:24 am 
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Thanks for the reply earlier in the thread.


IF you have other stuff on your master, where in the chain would you put the compression?

So I currently have some saturation/drive, a gentle tape emulation for some warmth, a "colour" eq with some final surgical/clean EQ to cut the very bottom off, followed by a limiter for export.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Blimey, see now all that I'd ask to be taken off if I were mastering. Eq cutting lows first (though I never do this to my master bus, always deal with this on channels myself), then comp them sat. Which is pretty much how you would do it if you were recording to tape.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Awesome, thanks!

My ridiculous master FX chain is another conversation....


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Thanks a lot for the tutorial Steven!


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