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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:50 pm 
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I tried it. Compression pump works on both kick patterns on this particular track that I'm working with.

That compressor sounds f**king incredible by the way!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:01 pm 
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No you don't want to automate the response. Once the compressor is working pleasingly to the BPM that's fine.
Changing the nature of the time response changes everything about the compression.

We don't do it in mastering, there is no need.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Is it normal that this kills a lot of highend or am I doing something wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:53 am 
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If you are mixing in to a compressor from the get go it should not be an issue, you may well be doing something wrong, as you should be EQing with the compressor in the mix, you are adjusting for any tonal changes.
I`ve not found any problem with the top end using the MJUC, you can always adjust the tone control to give a little more to the hifi side of the setting, which pushes the lows and highs forward.
But it shouldn`t be an issue at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:34 pm 
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I've played with this on a few of my own tunes, as well as your example project file (thanks again).

I'm struggling to set the release time. Attack is fine as I can listen out for the bite of the kick drum but the release seems really subtle. Any tips for what to listen out for?


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Release seems to determine the "pump rhythm" of the compressor. If you up the gain reduction it becomes very obvious. I think it depends on what kind of rhythm you want and how obvious you want the pump effect.

Just gave it another try. Before the break is without compressor, after is with it in. On headphones you can really hear the noise move according to the rythm of the compressor in the second part and that's just with ~3db gain reduction.



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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Nice, thanks for that..
I was always using ableton stock comp for these situations but glue sound even better.. The only thing i dont like about glue is that numbers on attack and release, it would be better that its precisely in miliseconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:07 pm 
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bram2000 wrote:
I've played with this on a few of my own tunes, as well as your example project file (thanks again).

I'm struggling to set the release time. Attack is fine as I can listen out for the bite of the kick drum but the release seems really subtle. Any tips for what to listen out for?



Just pull down the threshold and up the ratio to get a more extreme effect, once it moves nicely back it all down again.
It could also be that your bass is interfering with the overall groove, this has combined solutions.
Set the hi pass on the sidechain EQ higher, and also take your bass level down in the mix.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:11 pm 
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zukenbauer wrote:
Nice, thanks for that..
I was always using ableton stock comp for these situations but glue sound even better.. The only thing i dont like about glue is that numbers on attack and release, it would be better that its precisely in miliseconds.


The numbers on attack and release on compressors really don't mean anything.
5ms on one compressor can sound radically different on another compressor.
As a compressor is about interrelated audio processes, the curve, the way ratio is applied, the knee etc, all these things are a factor.

Use your ears not your eyes, for this type of compression you don't need micro point accuracy on attack and release.

Most of the best hardware compressors for these type of tasks have indented preset steps in the attack and release controls.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
zukenbauer wrote:
Nice, thanks for that..
I was always using ableton stock comp for these situations but glue sound even better.. The only thing i dont like about glue is that numbers on attack and release, it would be better that its precisely in miliseconds.


The numbers on attack and release on compressors really don't mean anything.
5ms on one compressor can sound radically different on another compressor.
As a compressor is about interrelated audio processes, the curve, the way ratio is applied, the knee etc, all these things are a factor.

Use your ears not your eyes, for this tyZ42pe of compression you don't need micro point accuracy on attack and release.

Most of the best hardware compressors for these type of tasks have indented preset steps in the attack and release controls.


I mean, i can get it working nicely, just thought it would be nice if it had more precisely settings but it seems it doesent matter anyway. Learned something new today!
Thanks mate


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:56 pm 
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I have a question about how this relates to the advice in the Home Mastering thread;

Is the mix buss compression you describe here the same as one of the two compressors you describe in the mastering chain, or would this be separate and done in advance?


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:43 pm 
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That really depends on how the final dynamic is.

The combining of 2 compressors is a very common mastering technique.
1 is there to catch peaks, and it only acts on fast peaks, chipping them off, the second traditionally is much slower in action, controlling big body changes over time, and reacting in a similar way to a vari-mu but even more slowly.

So no, this type of compression is neither of those as you aren`t acting fast enough to capture peaks, but you are acting too fast to only deal with large program changes over time.

However this does change how you might then apply master treatment, you may not need both compressors, you may only need one, you may not need any at all. Just a little bit of limiting might do enough for a home master.

Using makeup gain on your mix bus compressor, if you are doing a good job with your mixing you should be getting a good final level, somewhere between -12 to -8 RMS, easily loud enough and punchy enough to test out in a DJ set

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Nice thread. Thanks for doing this. There's a real gap in the market for a book about music production written this way, imo.

Anyway, once you do part 3 I'll put a condensed version of this thread into the archives.

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:04 am 
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Thanks for this Void - this is exactly the type of focus I need right now to try and improve the overall sonic quality of my tracks.

One embarrassing question I have - If there is nothing on the master channel why put it into a mix bus first if the mix bus is just going to an 'empty' master channel? Does this have to do with allowing flexibility in adjusting/managing the master channel at a later stage (separate from the mix bus)?

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:47 am 
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mix bus is another name for master channel also can be called the 2bus

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:35 am 
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Lost to the Void wrote:
mix bus is another name for master channel also can be called the 2bus


Thanks. Feeling even more embarrassed now :oops: (but just wanted to check I wasn't doing anything fundamentally wrong)

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:02 am 
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You could ask worse questions like "Should I wear a mask while I'm practicing my new set or should I hold out until the main event?"

I've been using ableton's stock compressor on my master up until now, shows how sensitive my ears are! Learning stuff all the time... Will check that comp Void mentions and compare the difference. Actually never compared it to the glue comp so that's prob worth checking out first. Never really focused too much on the master channel, apart from checking levels or playing around with a final eq for shits and giggles ..

Btw Steve, is there some way of seeing how these compare (on the same material) or is it just a matter of playing around to see which one gives the best results? Prob answered my own question there, but I assume the idea is to keep it subtle.


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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:00 am 
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great thread, cheers for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:17 am 
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This is a very interesting read during my lunchbreak.
Thx Steve!

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 Post subject: Re: Mix Bus Compression Guide
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:53 am 
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Great, great guide Steve.
I've never done this before so I'm excited to try this out.

Also very cool to include the in depth info on what is actually happening. Very interesting read indeed.

Thanks!


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